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#10681 Polly

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:31 PM

Hi Polly,

 

You ever wondered why a qualified financial advisor or a fund manager is compelled by law to use "financials models, spread sheets , complex calculations , forward projected non nonsensical earnings and cash flow"?

 

Do you know of any streetwise investor managing a large hedge fund?  How about a pension fund or mutual fund?

 

Streetwise smarts tops academic assessment, huh? :D :o

 

Best you don't invest your pension or RA in a qualified financial planning business.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

is this why they dumped Steinhof then? took them complex exercises to come to that conclusion...Took me 5 min being a s/w investor....go figure....


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#10682 Polly

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:29 PM

Its Tom post which i tend to agree with going foward....Its not a going concern..

 

Dont know why everyone talks of q i and q2 financials...U need to be back ward looking too for the uncertainties..and i think TOM summarized it perfectly...

 

 

Captain i had enough of this share now....no more posting here....

 

The red basically highlighted what i think of it in a good summary.... use it or dump it!!

 

 

Cheers..catch me in my help desk if you need to know anything more besides Steinhoff...

 

 

and to be honest i havennt looked at the  past afs and even the lockup agreement..Now when Tom posted that , it basically reinforces what ive been thinking... This company is now at the mercy of its creditors....It cant really do what it wants...hands are tied!!!


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Trading is one of the only fields where genuine con artists/scammers will urge you to “be careful of con artists/scammers.”


#10683 DayTraderDad

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:29 PM

Its Tom post which i tend to agree with going foward....Its not a going concern..

 

Dont know why everyone talks of q i and q2 financials...U need to be back ward looking too for the uncertainties..and i think TOM summarized it perfectly...

 

 

Captain i had enough of this share now....no more posting here....

 

The red basically highlighted what i think of it in a good summary.... use it or dump it!!

 

 

Cheers..catch me in my help desk if you need to know anything more besides Steinhoff...

Good go away and take your negativity with you!!!! Remember before helping further go back to trading school to learn what trading is all about!!!


Edited by DayTraderDad, 05 February 2019 - 12:30 PM.

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#10684 Captainfrom82

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:27 PM

 here let me tell youll the difference...

 

 

Clever : thinks he smarter than the market using financials models, spread sheets , complex calculations , forward projected non nonsensical earnings and cash flow, checking social media and websites for confirmation bias etc etc

 

Streetwise investor : Looks at overall big picture , whats happening on the ground , forward and backward looking and makes up his own mind from previous expediences,and sticks to his guns without getting influenced by social  media and opinion of others..

 

 

Now which type of investor are you?

 

Hi Polly,

 

You ever wondered why a qualified financial advisor or a fund manager is compelled by law to use "financials models, spread sheets , complex calculations , forward projected non nonsensical earnings and cash flow"?

 

Do you know of any streetwise investor managing a large hedge fund?  How about a pension fund or mutual fund?

 

Streetwise smarts tops academic assessment, huh? :D :o

 

Best you don't invest your pension or RA in a qualified financial planning business.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82


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#10685 Polly

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:23 PM

Hmmm.... Polly as a qualified financial person, I expected better from you.

 

Please demonstrate to me using the definitions of bankrupt and insolvent and supported by the evidence of the 1H18 financials, how you arrive at 1 and 2 above.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Its Tom post which i tend to agree with going foward....Its not a going concern..

 

Dont know why everyone talks of q i and q2 financials...U need to be back ward looking too for the uncertainties..and i think TOM summarized it perfectly...

 

 

Captain i had enough of this share now....no more posting here....

 

The red basically highlighted what i think of it in a good summary.... use it or dump it!!

 

 

Cheers..catch me in my help desk if you need to know anything more besides Steinhoff...


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Trading is one of the only fields where genuine con artists/scammers will urge you to “be careful of con artists/scammers.”


#10686 Captainfrom82

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:16 PM

 

Steinhoff is
1.bankrupt, 
2.insolvent,
3.and a loss making company,
4.and on top of that it will need in the near future to service it's huge debt at 10% interest rate instead of the previously 5%, so Stienhoff is expected to remain in the loss making,
5.and the CVA dictates that Steinhoff needs the approval of the creditors should it want to sell any of its assets and that it cannot sell at less than the market price (and the creditors will be the ones to determine this price), so slowly Stienhoff will be sucked by the creditors as its debt grows and grows.
6. And on top of that the coming court cases and regulatory fines.
7.Steinhoff is uninvestable, and its share price worth (according to me and many others) is zero,
8.the ones that buy it for more than zero are a high-risk takers or mis-informed.

 

 

Hmmm.... Polly as a qualified financial person, I expected better from you.

 

Please demonstrate to me using the definitions of bankrupt and insolvent and supported by the evidence of the 1H18 financials, how you arrive at 1 and 2 above.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82


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#10687 Captainfrom82

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:12 PM

Steinhoff is bankrupt, insolvent, and a loss making company, and on top of that it will need in the near future to service it's huge debt at 10% interest rate instead of the previously 5%, so Stienhoff is expected to remain in the loss making, and the CVA dictates that Steinhoff needs the approval of the creditors should it want to sell any of its assets and that it cannot sell at less than the market price (and the creditors will be the ones to determine this price), so slowly Stienhoff will be sucked by the creditors as its debt grows and grows.

And on top of that the coming court cases and regulatory fines.

 

Steinhoff is uninvestable, and its share price worth (according to me and many others) is zero, the ones that buy it for more than zero are a high-risk takers or mis-informed.

 

Hi Tom,

 

I am uncertain if you appreciate the actual meaning of "bankrupt" or "insolvent".

 

For the record Steinhoff is neither bankrupt nor insolvent.

 

1. There has been no Court order compelling Steinhoff to settle a debt (which it has renegaded on).  So no bankruptcy!!

2. Insolvent refers to the position when a company's liabilities exceed its assets.  Have you looked through the Steinhoff financials in this regard?  Let me assist you. As at the most recent Statement of Financial position (issued 29 June 2018 for 1H18) Total Assets is € 19838m with Total Liabilities € 16045m.  So there is no insolvency by this definition.

 

The wider definition includes a position where a company is unable to pay it's debts.   I am not aware of any non-financial creditor or lender making a demand for payment that was rebuffed or led to a Court Action.  Therefore, this wider definition also does not apply. 

 

I do not mean to trivialise how serious the Steinhoff financial situation is.  I acknowledge of course that Steinhoff has engaged in a CVA.  This is prudent.  I have written before that very few if any companies on the JSE would have the capacity to settle their entire debt in one fell swoop.  Please allow Steinhoff a similar fairness or leeway in your assessments.

 

You are technically correct that Steinhoff is a "loss making company".  However, you seem to fail to appreciate that it was the capital related costs (impairments) that pushed Steinhoff into a technical loss.  The company actually turned a relevantly healthy sustainable profit if you exclude these once off items.

 

Steinhoff's cashflows reflect the ability to sustain the extremely high 10% interest rate that you speak of.  Incidentally, the true interest rate is significantly lower than this 10% (aside for the Hemisphere loan which is around this 10% rate). 

 

You are correct regarding the contingent liability (Court cases and regulatory fines).

 

I can assure you that I am neither a "high-risk takers or mis-informed".  If anything, I believe that I understand teh company far better than most, and I am able to make informed unemotional decisions backed up by solid tangible evidence.

 

But, I respect your right to a different opinion.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

 
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#10688 DayTraderDad

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 12:09 PM

News on 12 Feb 2018: https://www.biznews....to-wiese-shares

 

(Bloomberg) – Christo Wiese’s stake in Steinhoff International Holdings NV has been cut to about 6 percent after banks sold stock put up by the former chairman to secure margin loans, costing him billions of dollars in losses on the scandal-hit South African retailer.
 
The reduction in the shareholding from 20.52 percent was involuntary and he doesn’t know which lenders sold or who bought the stock, Wiese said in a phone interview Monday. That’s the last of the forced disposals, and he has no plans to sell down the stake further, the billionaire said.
 
In an emailed response to questions, the company said Wiese had notified the company of his share disposal, which was reported as 6.2 percent in filings he made to the Netherlands’ Authority for the Financial Markets on Friday.
 
Wiese said he’s currently holding 243,198,492 shares, which equates to a stake of about 5.7 percent, based on the amount of stock in issue.

 


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#10689 Tom

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 10:54 AM

EOH seams to be going the same way as Steinhoff, because Eskom implicated them in corruption charges, on top of similar rumours and accusations of involvement in the State Capture Case it's been more than a years.

EOH has denied all accusations but they keep coming back, and the price has deteriorated by 85% (from a high of 170 rands to 25 rands now).

I wonder if the price will keep getting hammered, as these rumours and the State Capture case persist, similar to SNH as the court cases news will keep haunting the price.


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#10690 Bubble

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 09:42 AM

.


Edited by Bubble, 05 February 2019 - 09:43 AM.

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#10691 Lionelza1

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:04 AM

no no i havent sold....im frustrated, not emotional as some put claim.....my avg R1.80, i know there will be a pump on Q1, LUA and AFS, i wait for atleast the 1st 2 of them....im out as in i wont be influenced by what gets put on here

some of you guys are already celebrating at the finish line but the race hasnt even started!....good for you

 

and who cares what CW is doing with buying/not buying......i hear where its going but we do not know the reasoning so it matters not

 

im hoping not to see any further delays this mnth issued by management....coz if we do, put on your seltbealts for that long drop botha


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#10692 DayTraderDad

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:37 PM

So exactly where did I bulsxxt you?

For you and Polly to get educated about what is a day trader:

Definition of 'Day Trader'
 
Definition: Day trader refers to the market operator who indulges in day trading. A day trader buys and subsequently sells financial instruments like stocks, currencies or futures and options within the same trading day, which means all the positions that he creates are closed on the same trading day. A successful day trader must know which stocks to trade in, when to enter a trade and when to exit it. 
 
Description: The main objective of a day trader is to take advantage of small price movements in highly-liquid stocks. The more volatile the market, the more favourable are the conditions for a day trader. A day trader must have good knowledge of the stocks, the tools used and also the right platform to trade. A day trader makes profit by differentiating between the bid price and ask price. Sensing an imminent movement in a particular share in either direction, a day trader would buy or sell it above or below the bid price or ask price. There are two kinds of day traders: those who trade individually and those who work with a financial institution. A day trader who works individually often manages other people’s money or uses own money, but the limited scope of resources often prevents him from competing with the day trader who works with a company. Day traders usually hold their securities for a single day and their trading style is very different from real-time investors. They close their positions at the end of each day. Due to the short-term nature of day trading, there is less risk involved in it as there’s no risk of something happening overnight to cause a big loss.

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#10693 DayTraderDad

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:29 PM

bwah! u know nothing about me, perhaps if u could tell me how big is big? then i could tell u how small i am....im very much happy bro , 1 thing i dont do is bullshit ppl

So exactly where did I bulsxxt you?


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#10694 DayTraderDad

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:06 PM

Thanks P

I am not a con man. I am a day trader reading graphs continuously sell and buy on trade signals. So stop insulting me because the fraud is you Polly a very arrogant frustrated mother Theresa. Further if I was a con man would not say anything but one thing is for sure you and Lionel a gamblers because you believe in pumping never heard that word in proper trading. So you can insult me as much as you want but quite sure there are a number of people reading this and you will be judged by that. I don't have a deep hate for any share I simple invest on it or not but I can tell you I have in my long term portfolio a very big holding in SNH. You know nothing about trading so suggest you go join a trading school.


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#10695 Lionelza1

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:54 PM

L i think he really made himself foolish today.....cant get any worse..

 

 

anyway i think got my point across to others wishing to invest here....carefull and dont be misled....

 

Pumper here also a dumper...what a con man....

 

 

enough of this pathetic steihoff bashing  for me....

Thanks P


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#10696 Lionelza1

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:53 PM

Haha the day will come that you will remember these posts when you are sitting by the pub telling your friend how close you got to making it big!!! I remember buying Curro at R4 and telling my friends it was a great deal and everybody thought it was rubbish overvalued just like most investors on TV, Radio and news used to say then when I sold out at R50 my friends say " So sorry we missed the boat". So cheers lets talk soon.

PS: I don't need to send my CV I have my own trading business.

bwah! u know nothing about me, perhaps if u could tell me how big is big? then i could tell u how small i am....im very much happy bro , 1 thing i dont do is bullshit ppl


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#10697 Polly

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:52 PM

L i think he really made himself foolish today.....cant get any worse..

 

 

anyway i think got my point across to others wishing to invest here....carefull and dont be misled....

 

Pumper here also a dumper...what a con man....

 

 

enough of this pathetic steihoff bashing  for me....


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Trading is one of the only fields where genuine con artists/scammers will urge you to “be careful of con artists/scammers.”


#10698 DayTraderDad

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:46 PM

ya neh.......exactly the kinda BS i read since this thread started....u should actually put all that kak u talked about snh, gooi it on your cv, and address it to HR steinhoff, they'll give u a job quick quick as u'll fit right in with them....bullshitters

 

cheers

Haha the day will come that you will remember these posts when you are sitting by the pub telling your friend how close you got to making it big!!! I remember buying Curro at R4 and telling my friends it was a great deal and everybody thought it was rubbish overvalued just like most investors on TV, Radio and news used to say then when I sold out at R50 my friends say " So sorry we missed the boat". So cheers lets talk soon.

PS: I don't need to send my CV I have my own trading business.


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#10699 Lionelza1

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:40 PM

Lionel I have two portfolios. One I am a day trader (my profession retired 8 years ago tired of working for a boss and decided to work for myself) and the other I am long term/value  investor. As a day trader I focus only in one share study it well and then trade it on big volumes and small percentages of profit. This is my job full time. At present only trading in smaller volumes because uncertain when the share will run and volumes a low. I most probably will stop trading SNH by next week Friday.

ya neh.......exactly the kinda BS i read since this thread started....u should actually put all that kak u talked about snh, gooi it on your cv, and address it to HR steinhoff, they'll give u a job quick quick as u'll fit right in with them....bullshitters

 

cheers


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#10700 DayTraderDad

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:35 PM

L this okes confused...he doesnt know whats potting...

 

One of the advise i gave on trading/investing:

 

never trust anyone who claims to have made money who does not show his trade.... This person is called a " TROLL" aka fisherman aka attention seeker aka noise.........IGNORE his posts

Ho Polly how little you know of someone yet always great opinion of yourself. Only fools think they are smarter then everybody else!!!


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