900 replies to this topic

[battleship]

BS and Ajax don't forget that PSG is still in the mix as CA, as long as they are advising things can't be all that bad. They may also be the party underpinning the share price at 7 cents? BS you have developed a good relationship with Keet and the other Exco members, any follow up from the Exco information meeting? 

 

Hi Ponzi

I met Keet and three other top brasses at the exco and had a frank positive chat about things in January.Unfortunately, I have no relationship with any of them, and clearly no contact numbers etc.So I am in the dark like everyone else.

 

I get the feeling we will get results(because they have to) at the end of May,unless SARS does get a result sooner.

[ponzi]

BS and Ajax don't forget that PSG is still in the mix as CA, as long as they are advising things can't be all that bad. They may also be the party underpinning the share price at 7 cents? BS you have developed a good relationship with Keet and the other Exco members, any follow up from the Exco information meeting? 

[ajax]

There is really no justification or substance for the Adawn share price to be above 5 cents per share - based on 'clean' NAV, EPS and non existing business plan. (uncertainty re various claims against company, unsecured lending with pending problems, free SME mentoring, inability to exit non-core assets etc.) The share price is thus very strong at this stage!  

There will be a shake-out at some stage, maybe before the end May at reporting. They will have to report on a number of contentious issues at some stage.

They should try to utilize the present strong price to do one or more cash/script deals and start creating shareholder' value.    

[battleship]

1200 000 traded at 8c before 10am this morning.There is honestly no logic happening other than things happening we don't know about.With a possible 6 week wait for news 7c was logical.What made 1,2 million trade at 8c??????????????????

[ajax]

So strange that just before every announcement is posted the volume move up? JSE has to investigate.  

[ponzi]

And there we have it, the good news, SARS 'final conclusion is still in progress'.

Should shareholders laugh or cry?

[ajax]

Very interesting taking into account that the past week or so saw almost no trades.

 

Also of interest is that post Knife Capital deal and after the CEO said that this is the best deal that he has done the market cap came down from R160 million to about R65 million - indicate strong support as he said after the AGM.   

 

Will 'Number one' take responsibility or just wish on. One can only hope that his next deal (second deal) will not destroy anymore shareholder value.  

 

It is obviously hopeless to expect any shareholders update from them?

 

In their vafour is that PSG is still the Corporate Advisors and they have adequate auditors - and resilient shareholders.  

Edited by ajax, 13 April 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[battleship]

Its more likely that 2.5million shares were sold as the sellers at 8c are becoming frustrated and selling at 7c.

[battleship]

Nice volume today. News in the pipeline? SARS, Elite or a long overdue Grindstone transaction what do you think?  

Since they don't tell us much,it could be any of the above.Am hoping its SARS so updates can be announced and momentum can move forward.I cannot believe its 6 months of wait over SARS issue and still no finality.

[ponzi]

Nice volume today. News in the pipeline? SARS, Elite or a long overdue Grindstone transaction what do you think?  

[ajax]

Some useless information. I am a shareholder in a company that we were restructuring and the company had a substantial SARS liability. We have through a 'facilitator' tried to negotiate a settlement with SARS. We approached SARS for a compromise under Article 200. One of the issues from SARS for not entertaining the request was; "The request must be accompanied by the evidence supporting the ‘debtor’s’ claims for not being able to make payment of the full amount of the tax debt." 

 

If this is the same article that Afdawn is using to apply for a compromise (reduction) I wonder if SARS will consider this as Afdawn has the funds available to actually settle the full outstanding amount. This may be the reason why there is no progress and also why management after the November positive cautionary that a settlement was imminent do not pursue any acquisitions. They may have to approach shareholders again for capital in the near future?       

[ponzi]

Is Keet the force behind the throne? It seems like he is the spokesman and driver and that the present CEO is not really in the picture?

 

Say SARS give them a large discount what will that mean for the company? Do they have the funds to pay SARS, I think if SARS settles at a lower amount they would want the payment immediately. Will the shareprice react to a settlement? 

 

Do you think iKubu was a transaction in which they had equity or was it a fee for some paperwork as suggested on the Forum a while ago? It is difficult to consider the Afdawn value proposition. I see you mentioned other positive investments, what are these?

 

Have they come clean on Elite? I must say I find it strange that the management team is completely white and I assume their client base largely black - just a subjective observation.      

[battleship]

I see Elite has a nice new web site http://www.elitegroup.co.za/.
 
The 'new' management team has now been in charge of the Elite Group for 9 months now I wonder how long will it take with all the exit-centric (Knife Capital) expertise to  get the company exit ready? Or don't they (Afdawn) plan to sell Elite anymore? Are there reasons other than commercial motivation stopping Afdawn to sell the company? 
 
Will the Afdawn Board at this stage still pin Elite' issues on the previous people, Dr Stoop en Andy Turner? Does the buck stops with NO1?

The delay (SARS) causing so much anxiety needs a reason.My guess is that SARS are still after the culprits(before keet and co)and the delay is so SARS have opportunity to deal directly with the people owing the money.Its unfortunate as we are getting no SENS news, a lot of which I suspect would have been good.(Ikubu,other investments,etc).We appear set to wait till end May unless something transpires

[ponzi]

I see Elite has a nice new web site http://www.elitegroup.co.za/.

 

The 'new' management team has now been in charge of the Elite Group for 9 months now I wonder how long will it take with all the exit-centric (Knife Capital) expertise to  get the company exit ready? Or don't they (Afdawn) plan to sell Elite anymore? Are there reasons other than commercial motivation stopping Afdawn to sell the company? 

 

Will the Afdawn Board at this stage still pin Elite' issues on the previous people, Dr Stoop en Andy Turner? Does the buck stops with NO1?    

[ponzi]

Looks like the share is (steadily) preparing for an upward trend?! Strategically, this might be a very good time for ADW to share positive/good news if they could do so at this stage...

[ponzi]

Hi Guys, 

Afdawn via Knifecap just released the beta version of Yue Diligence. It has already been included as a semi-finalist in the Fin-tech Innotribe Start up challenge.  

 

http://ventureburn.c...semi-finalists/

 

The did mention at the AGM that they will be releasing this soon. 

 

Only positive news. 

[ponzi]

The Board and management have the support of at least 40% of the shareholders (4/5 biggest shareholders). The Board is behind management in their endeavours. The Board is controlled by Knife Capital sympathisers supporting the present business case.   

 

Shareholders who invest in this type of company should accept the high risk and uncertainty that the investment will present. 

 

It is a free market and shareholders who are uncomfortable should sell their shares, outside pressure will not determine the business plan. 

[ajax]

Point taken re certain Venture Capital Companies' challenges in a listed environment; but lets stick to the reality and facts, Afdawn is at this stage obliged to function within the JSE and other regulatory frameworks. Afdawn' stated vision is to be an investment holding company, or is it? The 'bump and dump' philosophy is a new Grindstone making.

 

On the 17th April 2012 (before selling out to Afdawn) Keet van Zyl proclaimed in a press interview; "Knife Capital is flexible about raising funds. We may look at raising a smaller (ouch)  tranche of funding - maybe R100m-R150m - which will allow us to close off a fund and build a track record before testing the investment market again. The 'entry ticket' will cost between R20m and R30m, which means that pension funds and institutions, as well as 'super angel' funders offshore, will be the initial targets.".....   

 

It must be noted that they were not successful in the above i.e. raising any funding and Afdawn was a last port in a storm for them, according to KvZ without the envisaged track record.

 

Regarding the past successes claimed as achieved by the KC team as managers of the HBD fund; Tim Harned of AGC was the sole financial adviser for HBD re the Fundamo HBD transaction which Knife Capital often claimed as a KC success (see AGC web site). Tim is often a speaker at the Grindstone exit-centric workshops... 

 

Even the iKubu transaction was according to Franz Struwig of their own making (interview on KykNet), it may be that KC has done some lesser paperwork for an undisclosed fee on this deal - as there is no transparency we may only guess.

 

No kudos there! So without capabilities in their field of expertise what did Afdawn buy? 

 

April 2014 Knife Capital sold a two year old seemingly insolvent company of which the balance sheet was bumped up with intangible assets of more than R10 million (to make the deal fly) to Afdawn for R10 million plus (please read the AD interim report to verify - 28th November 2014). So what can they lose? Who has done the independent DD on KC? My guess a related party, where are they now?   

 

Regarding open and transparent communication; at the AGM the CEO said that they subscribe to the King 111 Report, inter alia the Board is responsible for Governing Stakeholder Relationships;

 

o    Transparent and effective communication with stakeholders is essential for building and maintaining their trust and confidence.

o    Complete, timely, relevant, accurate, honest and accessible information should be provided by the company to its stakeholders. 

o    Communication with stakeholders should be in clear and understandable language. (please note the interim report was presented in very complicated and peculiar English and a lot of double talk) 

o    The board should adopt communication guidelines that support a responsible communication programme.

 

These are facts and not emotion or blind believe, there are only two Afdawn Board members that are not in one way or another compromised by the KC transaction.   

 

But let us wait things will pan out over time, the JSE may even have a say in the matter. Some people may think that the Afdawn Board is misleading the investor market by manipulating communications to suit the situation.  

 

 

 

 

 

[zerocool]

Yes I actually bought my shares...some at 12/18 cent per share (last year) and have also followed my rights on shares previously held. My DD was based on the public announcements made by the AD Board during 2013/14. So I have the right to question the credibility of the AD Board. 

 

Last year when the market was under the impression that the Knife Capital deal and the RI was the beginning of the fulfillment of the Vision as stated and proclaimed in 2013, the share price went to 20 cents per share. The reality check was that this was never the Afdawn Board' plan but a way of getting money to do other things with, smoke and mirrors. The share price reacted and retracted to where it is today. Hiding behind the SARS issue is just a way not to do what they promised in various communications not the least the motivation for the RI!

 

The market is never wrong, AD will fail dismally if with the present status and information the company tries to get additional money from the market. If KC was such a great deal as stated recently by the CEO why no progress (a year later), why with all the good stuff the share price has pulled back to the current levels? Afdawn Board, the market do not believe you any more.....

 

Zerocool, have you bought your shares, or was it issued as a consideration? But maybe you are right and the share price will jump tomorrow on the back of the 'good news' - just as it was anticipated in the iKubu cautionary (remember that one?)      

 

I bought a considerable amount of shares because I believe in the KC team. 

 

Have you ever read Lean Start-up by Eric Ries? Turn to about page 189 (I think it is page 189). He speak about "LTSE" (long term stock exchange). He said someone need to create a LTSE for Venture Capital companies to list, as it is impossible for a Venture Capital company to constantly report in terms of the relevant Stock Exchange/Listing rules due to  investments they make. Venture capital companies don't sell products like checkers or PnP where they receive a constant income, they invest and then when it is successful, they exit and make a huge amount of money from one deal (look at the track record of KC and sales of $100mil+). 

 

Grindstone allow them to spot talent and to invest in them with the hope of an exit in the near future. 

 

Further, there is no reason why Yue Diligence cannot be sold to another big corporation for massive amount of money- the best it, KC probably owns 100% of it as it is their product. 

 

I don't think the KC team with such a great track record and 33 million shares each would wan't this to go sour.

Edited by zerocool, 22 March 2015 - 05:45 PM.

[ajax]

Yes I actually bought my shares...some at 12/18 cent per share (last year) and have also followed my rights on shares previously held. My DD was based on the public announcements made by the AD Board during 2013/14. So I have the right to question the credibility of the AD Board. 

 

Last year when the market was under the impression that the Knife Capital deal and the RI was the beginning of the fulfillment of the Vision as stated and proclaimed in 2013, the share price went to 20 cents per share. The reality check was that this was never the Afdawn Board' plan but a way of getting money to do other things with, smoke and mirrors. The share price reacted and retracted to where it is today. Hiding behind the SARS issue is just a way not to do what they promised in various communications not the least the motivation for the RI!

 

The market is never wrong, AD will fail dismally if with the present status and information the company tries to get additional money from the market. If KC was such a great deal as stated recently by the CEO why no progress (a year later), why with all the good stuff the share price has pulled back to the current levels? Afdawn Board, the market do not believe you any more.....

 

Zerocool, have you bought your shares, or was it issued as a consideration? But maybe you are right and the share price will jump tomorrow on the back of the 'good news' - just as it was anticipated in the iKubu cautionary (remember that one?)