183 replies to this topic

[DividendTycoon]

@DividendTycoon. As a former shareholder I am purely speculating on the potential reasons why the stock is being propped up. All I know is that whoever the fool is supporting the price, he or she cannot sell a single share at current prices. Maybe they have the exceptional vision that Doktor alluded to in seeing the future, clearly I didn't. And I am glad I don't, because having read up on Doktor, he is clearly not a character I would shake hands with and not check if my wallet was still in my pocket afterwards. Peace to all, my darling wife has prepared a lovely meal for dinner

If propping up the share price was needed I would think Trustco or QVR would be doing this for credibility perhaps, as opposed to a minority shareholder who is not involved in the running of the business and is investing in expectation of a good return. Seems very self defeating to engage in something which could only have a bad ending if this what they are doing. 

 

Only time will tell I guess. I cant help but feel that either you are right (always a possibility despite what I wrote above), or this minority shareholder who is buying so much knows something we do not know.(for now I am going with this). 

[SoleTrader]

@DividendTycoon. As a former shareholder I am purely speculating on the potential reasons why the stock is being propped up. All I know is that whoever the fool is supporting the price, he or she cannot sell a single share at current prices. Maybe they have the exceptional vision that Doktor alluded to in seeing the future, clearly I didn't. And I am glad I don't, because having read up on Doktor, he is clearly not a character I would shake hands with and not check if my wallet was still in my pocket afterwards. Peace to all, my darling wife has prepared a lovely meal for dinner

[DividendTycoon]

RBA placed in final liquidation today. This will impact the NAVs of Conduit Capital and the Riskowitz stables. So the only way to present any semblance of respect is to prop up the price of their most illiquid investment, TTO. Sadly, this party can only last that long. Maybe its time to inform the JSE Surveillance department to pop this little bubble.
Also interesting that no SENS announcements are made to reflect the increased minority holding by Trustco?

Maybe they just see value where you do not..how would buying at inflated prices be sustainable? When they have all the shares they would then hold an asset they cannot sell and it would all collapse, so they would just be deferring the problem to a later date and lose more money than if they sold out now. I do not think they are out to lose money, much of which is their own.

 

Having said that I also do not know why there has not been notification of an interest by Pershing funds (controlled by Riskowitz capital), that is rather strange as you say. The others such as Conduit  are below the 5%, although you could argue they are related parties.

[SoleTrader]

RBA placed in final liquidation today. This will impact the NAVs of Conduit Capital and the Riskowitz stables. So the only way to present any semblance of respect is to prop up the price of their most illiquid investment, TTO. Sadly, this party can only last that long. Maybe its time to inform the JSE Surveillance department to pop this little bubble.
Also interesting that no SENS announcements are made to reflect the increased minority holding by Trustco?

Edited by SoleTrader, 22 March 2017 - 06:18 PM.

[DividendTycoon]

i suppose nothing stops them from offering 400c to minorities, especially if they delist prior to the Buckley transaction. 

You never know, but I think they would have a tough time justifying that. The circular which was issued in connection with the buy back at R4.80, estimated that the value of the share was R4.71 to R5.20, based on information supplied by TTO. 

 

Now we all know that these circulars are written with the end result in mind. However, as the 'expert' has valued the share at this price, it would be difficult to justify a lower price to minorities. 

 

You can get limited share registers from http://www.companyshareholders.com/, the top twenty shareholders, but here I have pasted end Feb below:

 

Pershing, which includes the 40m odd Buckley shares are a Riskowitz fund, Constantia, Snowball and Midbrook are all related to Conduit/Riskowitz and Leo Chou I think is or was a director of Snowball. So that makes, including QVR, about 694m of 772m shares owned by QVR and Riskowitz funds etc which all have a relationship. 

 

Well, it is just speculation, but they either really love TTO or something is perhaps up..

 

PERSHING LLC 235406280 VAN ROOYEN QUINTON 137015010 VAN ROOYEN QUINTON 108200000 BN1 - * VAN ROOYEN QUINTON 84139110 VAN ROOYEN QUINTON 37000000 SNOWBALL WEALTH PTY LTD 27000000 VAN ROOYEN QUINTON 26200000 CONSTANTIA INSURANCE COMPANY LIMITE 14614050 MIDBROOK LANE  (PTY) LTD 12725129 CHOU LEO CHIH HAO 8000000 MORGAN STANLEY SMITH BARNEY LLC 3600000 SNOWBALL WEALTH PTY LTD 3600000 GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES PENSION FUND PUBLIC INVESTMENT CORPORATION 3389457 BNYMSANV AS AGENT/CLIENTS BT G MAINACC 10 PERCENT WHT 1 3132531 GSCO EQUITY SECURITY CLIENT SEGREG ATION 3128347 GUSCORA INVESTMENTS PTY LTD 2900000 STD NAMIBIA CAPRICORN ASSET MANAGEMENT 2850000 FULUCA INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 2773668 APPIAS (PTY) LIMITED 2179408 OLD MUTUAL LIFE ASSURANCE CO SA LTD 2150799

[SoleTrader]

i suppose nothing stops them from offering 400c to minorities, especially if they delist prior to the Buckley transaction. 

[SoleTrader]

Delist TTO? That makes a lot of sense, great analysis @DividendTycoon.  PS Where can one get hold of monthly share registers? My useless broker could not help me. 

 

I think QvR most likely burnt all his bridges getting South African investors to believe in his dreams.  The first thing they teach you in business school, you have got to believe and trust management.  And i think in the case of TTO, that sadly aint gonna happen.  

 

Doktor's past caught up to him. Ai toggie! So i guess we never will hear what a diamond dud he bought and tried to flog to shareholders 

[DividendTycoon]

Musings to self: why is this share price being manipulated? What is doktor and his tjommies up to? Why is only one buyer propping the price up at 400c?  What is in it for the buyer to keep the price up??.....      

 

Doktor, I know you follow this thread, maybe enlighten us what skelmstreke you up to now? 

 

Any idea where one can get a share register for the past three months? 

I sold a few more, but still a big part of portfolio due to this price appreciation.

 

I have also in the last few days been thinking about why Riskowitz/Pershing/Conduit keeps buying and buying, and they are the buyers of most of the shares, I checked the register. The answer which comes to me is that they control about 35% of the shares, the buckley shares are about 4% and QVR about 50%. I reckon once they together have 90%of the issued shares they will take the company private. It would, I assume, have to be at R4.80 like the Buckley share buy back. 

 

Now, this is just my theory which is more than likely wrong, I own a lot of TTO shares so you could accuse me of talking the price up, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I feel that Conduit Capital will probably be the ultimate joint owner. 

 

Note: Even with this theory I am not going to buy more, because as you say if Riskowitz etc stop buying the share will most likely drop a lot, and I am not going to speculate on a theory, even if it is my own.

[SoleTrader]

Musings to self: why is this share price being manipulated? What is doktor and his tjommies up to? Why is only one buyer propping the price up at 400c?  What is in it for the buyer to keep the price up??.....      

 

Doktor, I know you follow this thread, maybe enlighten us what skelmstreke you up to now? 

 

Any idea where one can get a share register for the past three months? 

[SoleTrader]

I see Riskowitzs big punt, RBA Housing, was placed in final liquidation today. I wonder what the exposure of Conduit Capital is to RBA? Good seeing someone trying to prop up TTO. Quite funny actually.

[DividendTycoon]

Definition of an optimist - Opening your SENS and expecting an announcement that Trustco got a mining license! 

I would say an optimist hopes for no mining license..

[SoleTrader]

Definition of an optimist - Opening your SENS and expecting an announcement that Trustco got a mining license! 

[DividendTycoon]

Okay, for me that's enough trustco banging. Time to spend energy on positive things, like my darling wife. Adios, Dokter, or is it Doktor in Afrikaans unless referring to a medical GP? Despite all my internet searches, still cannot find the university that awarded u ur PhD. Maybe selfassigned when you were representing Namibian Medical Solutions and you like the sound of it so much you decided, what the heck, Dr Q sounds more glamorous than Mr Q? And also distinguishes you from Q jnr. And for the records, diamonds is not spelt daimonds, as per some of your tweets!

Don't stop! Every time you post the share price rises...maybe Dr Q watching you      

[SoleTrader]

Okay, for me that's enough trustco banging. Time to spend energy on positive things, like my darling wife. Adios, Dokter, or is it Doktor in Afrikaans unless referring to a medical GP? Despite all my internet searches, still cannot find the university that awarded u ur PhD. Maybe selfassigned when you were representing Namibian Medical Solutions and you like the sound of it so much you decided, what the heck, Dr Q sounds more glamorous than Mr Q? And also distinguishes you from Q jnr. And for the records, diamonds is not spelt daimonds, as per some of your tweets!

[DividendTycoon]

All the good work of tweeting and ranting and raving and calling people clowns and talking about second hand cars and wanting to show people, all coming undone as the mystery shopper disappears?

 

 

“Trustco is not a company to be viewed through ordinary eyes; only those with exceptional vision can see what great future lies ahead.”          

That was good work?? 

[SoleTrader]

All the good work of tweeting and ranting and raving and calling people clowns and talking about second hand cars and wanting to show people, all coming undone as the mystery shopper disappears?

 

 

“Trustco is not a company to be viewed through ordinary eyes; only those with exceptional vision can see what great future lies ahead.”          

Edited by SoleTrader, 05 January 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[SoleTrader]

There I cannot help you. Maybe ask your broker to contact the JSE? Doubt if they will give him any info though.

[DividendTycoon]

No accusations made. Sentence two is fact. Its very easy for JSE survailance to see which broker is buying, and to see which he's buying for. Sentence one refers to the illustrious dokter knowledge on how capital markets work. Intersting a day after my posting the strong demand for the share suddenly disappears. Propped up in the auction. Peace to All.

Interesting...please can you share who was buying?

[SoleTrader]

No accusations made. Sentence two is fact. Its very easy for JSE survailance to see which broker is buying, and to see which he's buying for. Sentence one refers to the illustrious dokter knowledge on how capital markets work. Intersting a day after my posting the strong demand for the share suddenly disappears. Propped up in the auction. Peace to All.