15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

Are we in for a bit of a melt Monday ?

Can you imagine if steinhoff is actually liquidated, how would it even work ?

SA would have to tell or force Netherlands to force liquidation on their side.

No multinational would invest in SA again if this went through.

It’s like Tesla setup as an external company in SA and now SA tries to force liquidation in the USA. USA bunch tell them to take a hike.

Also business rescue normally comes before liquidation and so how can they force liquidation without business rescue proposal.

It doesn’t make sense, very stupid.

Indeed its very stupid!!!

 

For me until there was agreement on the GS sure there was a liquidation risk and can understand TT decision to apply for the liquidation.

 

However now the Eur12 bil claims are settled just waiting on court confirmation SNH is for sure solvent so not sure what TT is now expecting.

 

The worst outcome for me is SNH giving them back the 56% of TT and take all the shares back.

 

TT old boys don´t OWN 100% of TT so they cannot get their business back. They can only get 56% of the business.

[DeltaHedge]

Haha, just a simple calculation of valuation according to TT old boys. On the discussion with Piet Viljoen TT thinks EBITDA multiple of 12 is fair then SNH EBITDA for the last 6 months (excluding corporate costs) was Eur 740 mil so for the year is Eur Eur 1480 mil and X 12 = Eur 17760 mil. With a total debt of say Eur 12 bil then SNH will have Eur 5760 mil to settle a debt of Eur 110 mil. I hope the judge can use a calculator!

Are we in for a bit of a melt Monday ?

Can you imagine if steinhoff is actually liquidated, how would it even work ?

SA would have to tell or force Netherlands to force liquidation on their side.

No multinational would invest in SA again if this went through.

It’s like Tesla setup as an external company in SA and now SA tries to force liquidation in the USA. USA bunch tell them to take a hike.

Also business rescue normally comes before liquidation and so how can they force liquidation without business rescue proposal.

It doesn’t make sense, very stupid.

[DayTraderDad]

Hahaha  that is true . Maybe we need DTD , Bushmanbob,  Squideye and DeltaHedge to compile a  German Statement  for release on that side. viz. about how to interpret the W/Cape latest ruling and history of the TT boys' over-evaluation of their business and send a copy to the judge as well.

Haha, just a simple calculation of valuation according to TT old boys. On the discussion with Piet Viljoen TT thinks EBITDA multiple of 12 is fair then SNH EBITDA for the last 6 months (excluding corporate costs) was Eur 740 mil so for the year is Eur Eur 1480 mil and X 12 = Eur 17760 mil. With a total debt of say Eur 12 bil then SNH will have Eur 5760 mil to settle a debt of Eur 110 mil. I hope the judge can use a calculator!

[Squideye]

https://www.news24.c...n-case-20210911

[Trader001]

Hope it will open low want to fill my trucks now that GS is voted in a pull back is a great opportunity!

Hahaha  that is true . Maybe we need DTD , Bushmanbob,  Squideye and DeltaHedge to compile a  German Statement  for release on that side. viz. about how to interpret the W/Cape latest ruling and history of the TT boys' over-evaluation of their business and send a copy to the judge as well.

[DayTraderDad]

So in other words?. 
Few understand what is happening here in this court case including myself. Looks like the Germans does not understand these intricacies either.. I note current Frankfurt price is R301 dropping significantly...Maybe profit taking?

Hope it will open low want to fill my trucks now that GS is voted in a pull back is a great opportunity!

[Trader001]

[quote name="DayTraderDad" post="298708" timestamp="1631297593"]

Think this is still not sorted see below a comment in ARIVA:

judge playing 3d chess

10

20:11

# 338478

By my reading, the application for the appeal of the jurisdiction decision would have suspended the jurisdiction decision and delayed the case according to s18 (1). By specifically ordering this not to be the case in this judgment, the judge triggers s18 (4).

Now, as soon as SNH appeals this order, s18 (4) (iii) is triggered, which elevates the appeal to an urgent status before the Supreme Court of Appeal.

By denying the application, the judge ensures that SNh (by doing the obvious which is to appeal) gets an urgent court date before the SCA. 3d chess



https://www.ariva.de...1686?page=13539[/quote

So in other words ?

So in other words?. 

Few understand what is happening here in this court case including myself. Looks like the Germans does not understand these intricacies either.. I note current Frankfurt price is R301 dropping significantly...Maybe profit taking? 

[DeltaHedge]

[quote name="DayTraderDad" post="298708" timestamp="1631297593"]

Think this is still not sorted see below a comment in ARIVA:

judge playing 3d chess

10

20:11

# 338478

By my reading, the application for the appeal of the jurisdiction decision would have suspended the jurisdiction decision and delayed the case according to s18 (1). By specifically ordering this not to be the case in this judgment, the judge triggers s18 (4).

Now, as soon as SNH appeals this order, s18 (4) (iii) is triggered, which elevates the appeal to an urgent status before the Supreme Court of Appeal.

By denying the application, the judge ensures that SNh (by doing the obvious which is to appeal) gets an urgent court date before the SCA. 3d chess



https://www.ariva.de...1686?page=13539[/quote

So in other words ?

[DayTraderDad]

Think this is still not sorted see below a comment in ARIVA:

judge playing 3d chess

10

20:11

# 338478  

By my reading, the application for the appeal of the jurisdiction decision would have suspended the jurisdiction decision and delayed the case according to s18 (1). By specifically ordering this not to be the case in this judgment, the judge triggers s18 (4).

Now, as soon as SNH appeals this order, s18 (4) (iii) is triggered, which elevates the appeal to an urgent status before the Supreme Court of Appeal.

By denying the application, the judge ensures that SNh (by doing the obvious which is to appeal) gets an urgent court date before the SCA. 3d chess



https://www.ariva.de...1686?page=13539

[Squideye]

https://www.business...ay-judge-rules/

[DayTraderDad]

  The representatives of the Dutch proceedings and the representatives of the financial creditors are now referred to as the First Intervening Party and Second Intervening Party.
I.e. after first being rejected by the judge, they are now admitted to the proceedings, otherwise they would not be so listed.
This means that a reasonable legal procedure can start.
 
????

Interesting I wonder if the judge did not slip up now trying to recover! Very confusing.

[Squideye]

  The representatives of the Dutch proceedings and the representatives of the financial creditors are now referred to as the First Intervening Party and Second Intervening Party.

I.e. after first being rejected by the judge, they are now admitted to the proceedings, otherwise they would not be so listed.

This means that a reasonable legal procedure can start.

 

????

[Squideye]

...

Attached Files

•  Court Order.pdf   272.54KB   71 downloads

[GutfeelTrader]

Gambling, until the SENS and/or verdict

Are we still waiting for the verdict/ruling or did I miss something

[Squideye]

...

Attached Files

•  20210910_2.pdf   835.64KB   50 downloads

[Squideye]

https://www.news24.c...g-ends-20210910

[Squideye]

What does that mean squid eye?

The judge...

[DOA123]

What does that mean squid eye?

[GutfeelTrader]

Change your profile name...???

Is my gut holding me down?

[Squideye]

I was expecting more of a jump...

Change your profile name...???