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Steinhoff


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#21 andi222

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Posted Yesterday, 11:58 AM

Another think to think about the liabilities and claims! If the Coronations and Allan Grey's did not see a future why would they still be holding shares and not sell out? 

If CW was so sure his companies are going to get Pepkor back why did they spend a further R600 mil ( rough figure) buying more shares which I thing the average price should be around the R2?

Surely he must have known SNH does not have enough money to pay for his claim so why invest further? 

 

These claims will take very long time to sort out!!!

 

Hi DTD,

 

to clear things up with regards to CW claim, he mentioned in the interview that the made the claim so that he is set equal to the creditors if Steinhoff would be liquidated. So I think that was a really good move, because if only the creditors would have had the first chunk I don't know what would have happened. The claim from CW might have been a genius move so that he is involved in the discussions of the future of Steinhoff. And all he wants is that all parties sit together and solve the issues. As he has topped up more shares I think he wants Steinhoff to return in full power and I think he is also seeing the potential. 

 

Just imagine what will happen when he withdraws his claim in a few years? That would mean that all similar cases where there are claims regarding losses in shares would have no hope of success.  Again it might have been a genius move by CW. And just think about it, we haven't heard anything new since they launched the claim in 2018, the lawyers of CW are not even pushing to get to a point. 


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#22 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:41 AM

This is brave writeup and risking reputaion amd credibility. I have been following these articles and gives me a sense of comfort , the discomfort is litigation liability, which is yet very vague and doomsday. If we start getting realistic undertstanding of this journey and a number of the co liable we would see alot more buy in...

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Another think to think about the liabilities and claims! If the Coronations and Allan Grey's did not see a future why would they still be holding shares and not sell out? 

If CW was so sure his companies are going to get Pepkor back why did they spend a further R600 mil ( rough figure) buying more shares which I thing the average price should be around the R2?

Surely he must have known SNH does not have enough money to pay for his claim so why invest further? 

 

These claims will take very long time to sort out!!!


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#23 Investment novice

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Posted Yesterday, 11:30 AM

Interesting article by Sarel on seeking alpha; abit too optimistic but detailed analysis that provides for interesting reading



This is brave writeup and risking reputaion amd credibility. I have been following these articles and gives me a sense of comfort , the discomfort is litigation liability, which is yet very vague and doomsday. If we start getting realistic undertstanding of this journey and a number of the co liable we would see alot more buy in...

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#24 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:26 AM

Buy at 123...and sell again later at restructuring....
I am happy with my buy at 126. Cant really time this ..
The profit that could have been bagge easily ..also a gamble


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I agree what made me sell out was that I saw equity to shareholders deteriorated further so NAV further negative and the debt was still there so for me the run was overdone for no reason. I have been buying back in because not sure it will go much further down. Still believe a long up trend has started not its time!!!!


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#25 Investment novice

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Posted Yesterday, 11:19 AM

Buy at 123...and sell again later at restructuring....
I am happy with my buy at 126. Cant really time this ..
The profit that could have been bagge easily ..also a gamble


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#26 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:17 AM

Interesting article by Sarel on seeking alpha; abit too optimistic but detailed analysis that provides for interesting reading

I agree excellent report putting thing in perspective but I bet you now it will be shot down.

This is what investing is all about a person needs to be informed read good articles do your sums and take action.  The article is far more informative than all the vague media and thread post with negativity.

 

Another good step: https://www.afr.com/...20190718-p528g6


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#27 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:10 AM

down to R1.23 today..even lower!!  :ph34r:

Suppose if they listened to me they could have got it cheaper neh!!!  :)

 

down to R1.23 today..even lower!!  :ph34r:

Suppose if they listened to me they could have got it cheaper neh!!!  :)

Haha finally we have something in common. Indeed I bought in at R1.26  was waiting patiently for R1.20 but when Andi222 and IN said they thought it was bottom I agreed and bought at R1.26. So when it run up as usual overdone and sold out at R1.39 to R1.45 ( In my day trading I trade in blocks of shares ) .

I had a good laugh when reading your warning to IN. By that time and was already thinking the share to settle for the day on 0.0850 to 0.0860.

So a newbie would have made a good profit and yes guess what I am again waiting patiently for the share to drop to R1.20 but so far refusing to go there so welcome to day trading.

 

One only makes money on trading if one takes action lots of talk and  warning is pointless!!!!


Edited by DayTraderDad, Yesterday, 11:11 AM.

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#28 Burnt as well

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:33 PM

Interesting article by Sarel on seeking alpha; abit too optimistic but detailed analysis that provides for interesting reading
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#29 Polly

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:55 PM

You see newbies had you not listen to Polly the TROLL when people on this thread said they buying at R1.26  you would be in the pound seats now!!!!

 

 

I wont touch this even with a barge pole!!!  ;)

 

 

hold you horses IN....juts gamblers i reckon!!!  

 

down to R1.23 today..even lower!!  :ph34r:

Suppose if they listened to me they could have got it cheaper neh!!!  :)


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Trading is one of the only fields where genuine con artists/scammers will urge you to “be careful of con artists/scammers.”


#30 Polly

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:47 PM

No ways this rubbish will trade at a 13x EBITDA multiple. More likely 6x

You still too generous!!  :)


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Trading is one of the only fields where genuine con artists/scammers will urge you to “be careful of con artists/scammers.”


#31 SoleTrader

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:33 PM

No ways this rubbish will trade at a 13x EBITDA multiple. More likely 6x
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#32 Bubble

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:02 PM

So, what happened to the 0.58 reported by them July 2018?

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#33 Investment novice

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:45 PM

Some really good thought pieces on steinhof.

So reflecting on these....shareholders are sueing for loss in value.....but most global were shorting the share....how is one to prove the actual value eroded....

And more importantly who is liable...persons or company.....and in specific countries this may be one and the same or not....

And all the associated entities that have vicarious liability

Think the next 12 to 18 months will provide significant stability to the company



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#34 Investment novice

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:59 PM


Steinhoff: You cannot fool the market … at least not all the time
Lovely article.........share overhang




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#35 Chris101

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:10 PM

seen that there Steinhoff is accepted with a book value of 0.15 euros. 

Here is a link:

 
Steinhoff (A14XB9 | NL0011375019 ): Overview of all relevant fundamental key figures for the company, such as profit, dividend, cash flow and sales.

 


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#36 DayTraderDad

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:35 PM

Look at volumes traded most are optimistic...almost 40 million bought on day of results. 10 percent odd sold pff profit taking....this indicates market pro snh share and as you say the price fluctuation is just trading

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I agree volumes speaks for it self. There is a misinformation going around (this is my own opinion and not designed to fraud people) about the so called Mr. Market that establishes to true price but in reality there is no such thing as a free market forces because the real truth markets are manipulated.

No one knows everything about the share price and what it affects it otherwise that person would be sitting in all the cash of the world.

Take for example how people been saying the price will be going to R1 next week the week comes and nothing then the great theory of the ZERO this been called over a year now and still not materialised. I been expecting a R7.60 and also not materialising so that confirm there is a lot of guessing going around.

For me the two single most important things to be announced are:

1 - CVA implemented - This will change the going concern because the current liabilities less then current assets. Yes we all expecting this will happen but quite sure people will not believe until it happens because possible delays extensions etc.

2 - Final restructuring - Exactly how is SNH planning to pay the debt? Is it the debt going to be given to each unit like MF taking the E2.9 bil. What will the company look like? How will the balance sheet look like will it be strong that the rating agencies can say SNH bonds are investment grade? The big issue at present is the 10% interest is very high so will they be able to get cheaper loans after the restructure?

 

For me the claims are long term issues and everybody knows that  there are 43 parties involved and the total possible damage is E6 bil that means each party pays E139 mil and all done but that is if there is a 100% so what happens if claims settle at only  20% of the claim then that figure per party is down to E27 mil.

 

In the mean time PEPCO continues to grow now 1675 stores five more opening on the 18th.

 

Anyone that thinks SNH is a quick turn around are you will make massive profits on long term holding has the wrong idea. At present SNH is great for day trading due to the volatility.

 

Anyway this is my thoughts not to defraud people or bulsxxxt just simple my views


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#37 Investment novice

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:31 AM

Look at volumes traded most are optimistic...almost 40 million bought on day of results. 10 percent odd sold pff profit taking....this indicates market pro snh share and as you say the price fluctuation is just trading

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#38 new john

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:20 AM

Cross post from the other thread seeing as though we’ve each got our own corner here on the interweb ;)

Wouldn’t necessarily say “whacked”. Price is correcting itself to what the market deems it’s worth is. Release of results just shook things up a bit but everything reported was already baked into the price even before its release.

Each and every time we believe we must “wait for this” and the price will start moving or “once this is released” we should see movement. I tend to disagree. Mr Market (not a term coined by anyone in this forum BTW) has decided what the price will be here. In terms of future earnings, liquidity, balance sheet ect

However..... the question is..... how much “punitive damage” resulting from claims to the company is baked in to the price. And my experience / limited knowledge leads me to believe that the price is on the basis that SNH is able to squash most of the “worst case scenario” claims.

It’s with that in mind that I’m not TOO concerned about the CVA as IMO the price is already based on its implementation. As well as the restructuring.

My concern and basis on which I’ll be adding anything is on the release of news regarding the Litigation aspect of this share.

I do not claim or believe to be anything CLOSE to an expert on this matter. My opinions are based on what I read and my understanding thereof so PLEASE feel free to challenge my thoughts.

I, much like a lot of people on this forum, stalker or otherwise, WANTS to believe this share will go up. And ultimately profit as a result. So with that in mind, if what I’ve said above is total and utter bullnonsense, I’d appreciate constructive criticism.
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#39 DayTraderDad

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 02:07 PM

Interesting interview:

 

https://www.cnbcafri...r-a-dead-horse/


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#40 DayTraderDad

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 12:36 PM

Very interesting article for those that don't know about Algorithm trading (Machine trading):

 

Beware Mr. Market is not a perfect marked and can be manipulated!!!

 

https://www.bloomber...ing-on-steroids

 

Highlights:

 

"Wall Street is fighting the robot revolution by chasing the billions of dollars of stocks bought and sold on autopilot in the dying minutes of every trading day.

 
UBS Group AG and Societe Generale SA are among institutional managers exploiting wild markets near the closing bell as programmatic players -- quants, ETFs and index trackers -- execute orders en masse. They’re offering newfangled trend-following strategies to big-money investors that work over the course of hours and minutes, rather than the traditional timeframe of months and weeks.
 
It’s where the action is. Some 23% of equities trading volume happens in the last half hour, compared with 18% in 2010, New York Stock Exchange data show."

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