15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

 

  

day 3 of trading and the all too familiar slow poison, going to wait before i get back in.

interesting article that;
"Ongoing litigation

LSW GmbH, a company related to former Steinhoff business partner Dr Andreas Seifert, launched an application to challenge the Steinhoff Europe AG (SEAG) company voluntary arrangement. This may further delay the finalisation of the 2018 financial statements. LSW claims to be a creditor of SEAG. The LSW application will be held in the English High Court before the end of March 2019."

so what happens should the court grant LSW application, then there's a delay with AFS 17/18
?, and if there is a delay the question to ask,for how long will this be delayed?

We seen market reactions w.r.t delays hey

towards end of march then, we'll probably get an indication from market reaction before publication of news

 

Why don't you take your money and go to the casino that's a better place to gamble both you and Polly are not investors you guys just hoping for a quick buck!!!

[DayTraderDad]

 

Seeing you are heavily invested in this share , i suggest that, seeing you not a lawyer and in your words that "you pretty sure " which tells me you not 100% sure , is get some legal advise from senior counsel on this matter as it would/could be considerably detriment to your investment decision especially if you not sure and then post incorrect facts here which others take to believe as correct. If i do post the correct fact on the position of a shareholder being a dual holder of shares and debt simultaneously in the same company and how it effects the company and other creditors ( especially those tied up in a 3 year agreement) on liquidation or sequestration, you or anyone else here wont believe me and would in all likelihood use some nasty criticism against me. So my suggestion is get professional help on this interpretation. It may cost you a little, but will help you and then others here considerably going forward.
 
In your own words ,  too many "incorrect opinions" posted here as correct facts which becomes horribly misleading to those already invested.

 


As usual Bla bla with nothing in facts!!! Boring are you now tired of EOH?

[Polly]

Hi Tom,

 

In South Africa, Section 135 of the Companies Act refers...

 

Creditors are seen as secured lenders or providers on capital.

Shareholders are sub-ordinate to creditors.

 

The question is as holders of residual value in a company if their claims are made via a law suit, if they are then seen as creditors.  I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure that they would remain subordinate to lenders.

 

In other words, as long as the lenders hold onto their creditors status there is little that shareholders can do to avoid "before the creditors suck every drop of money and asset from Steinhoff debt for equity for the creditors".

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

 

Seeing you are heavily invested in this share , i suggest that, seeing you not a lawyer and in your words that "you pretty sure " which tells me you not 100% sure , is get some legal advise from senior counsel on this matter as it would/could be considerably detriment to your investment decision especially if you not sure and then post incorrect facts here which others take to believe as correct. If i do post the correct fact on the position of a shareholder being a dual holder of shares and debt simultaneously in the same company and how it effects the company and other creditors ( especially those tied up in a 3 year agreement) on liquidation or sequestration, you or anyone else here wont believe me and would in all likelihood use some nasty criticism against me. So my suggestion is get professional help on this interpretation. It may cost you a little, but will help you and then others here considerably going forward.

 

In your own words ,  too many "incorrect opinions" posted here as correct facts which becomes horribly misleading to those already invested.

[Lionelza1]

 

https://www.moneyweb...ribs-and-drabs/

 

day 3 of trading and the all too familiar slow poison, going to wait before i get back in.

interesting article that;
"Ongoing litigation

LSW GmbH, a company related to former Steinhoff business partner Dr Andreas Seifert, launched an application to challenge the Steinhoff Europe AG (SEAG) company voluntary arrangement. This may further delay the finalisation of the 2018 financial statements. LSW claims to be a creditor of SEAG. The LSW application will be held in the English High Court before the end of March 2019."

so what happens should the court grant LSW application, then there's a delay with AFS 17/18
?, and if there is a delay the question to ask,for how long will this be delayed?

We seen market reactions w.r.t delays hey

towards end of march then, we'll probably get an indication from market reaction before publication of news

[nosh]

https://www.moneyweb...ribs-and-drabs/

[andi222]

CW(Titan) did not add any more shares in Feb.

 

Bad - He did not add more (Maybe he is limited on free cash, waiting for Shoprite kick-out money)

Good - He did not sell

Good - Less Wiese(Pappa or Boetie) around is good.

 

No major movements in the top 10 share holding for Feb.

 

Wiese might have added in Europe. He has other companies from which he might have bought shares. You are only looking at the JSE movement. But more than 50% of the shares are already offshore.

[Bubble]

Christo Wiese dropping his suit will go a long way to restore investor confidence.

Should it happen.

 

CW(Titan) did not add any more shares in Feb.

 

Bad - He did not add more (Maybe he is limited on free cash, waiting for Shoprite kick-out money)

Good - He did not sell

Good - Less Wiese(Pappa or Boetie) around is good.

 

No major movements in the top 10 share holding for Feb.

[Captainfrom82]

 

Share price will go up with the following....

1. Restructuring
2. Viable business able to pay debt and trade
3. Pwc report confirming transgressions and laying accountability on persons, directors, and auditors.
4. Pwc report does not further reduce total assets.. Which have already been disclosed.. Example property valuations
5....legal successes or settlements... If Cristo himself drops his case or loses should see big movement.

Anything else???

Share price will be impacted by sentiment. And is currently trading at levels due to the massive sell offs. Expect share to always be volatile until unknowns above resolved...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

 

[LarryK]

Christo Wiese dropping his suit will go a long way to restore investor confidence.

Should it happen.

[Investment novice]

Thanks Captain,

I believe there is good long term potential in this share, that’s why I’m going to hold onto my shares.
The issue is the share has been traded heavily and as per the info on the article you refer to, this affect share price and sentiment.
Interesting calculation on share price value by Sarel. Anything up to over €3
Anyway, we should all make decisions based on our own research, risk appetite AND patience. I can hold onto my shares for another 5 years or until I’m happy to sell. Once again, what is the target? That depends on the pwc report and 2017/8 financials. I remain open minded and will consider changing my strategy based on new information.

Kindly share your mate’s comment so we all on the same page?

Share price will go up with the following....

1. Restructuring
2. Viable business able to pay debt and trade
3. Pwc report confirming transgressions and laying accountability on persons, directors, and auditors.
4. Pwc report does not further reduce total assets.. Which have already been disclosed.. Example property valuations
5....legal successes or settlements... If Cristo himself drops his case or loses should see big movement.

Anything else???

Share price will be impacted by sentiment. And is currently trading at levels due to the massive sell offs. Expect share to always be volatile until unknowns above resolved...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[LarryK]

Thanks Captain,

I believe there is good long term potential in this share, that’s why I’m going to hold onto my shares.
The issue is the share has been traded heavily and as per the info on the article you refer to, this affect share price and sentiment.
Interesting calculation on share price value by Sarel. Anything up to over €3
Anyway, we should all make decisions based on our own research, risk appetite AND patience. I can hold onto my shares for another 5 years or until I’m happy to sell. Once again, what is the target? That depends on the pwc report and 2017/8 financials. I remain open minded and will consider changing my strategy based on new information.

Kindly share your mate’s comment so we all on the same page?

[Captainfrom82]

Yes

 

 

Yes LarryK.

 

I think that many people either invest without doing their homework, or misunderstand what they read. 

 

There has been a lot written (to be fair across the world) about Steinhoff's inability to service the  debt.  The point though that they fail to realise is that Steinhoff does not have to physically service the debt - that is the whole point of the CVA.  The interest will be capitalised over the next three years.  

 

By that stage, Steinhoff's equity position will be very different to the anemic value.  See my colleague BTDS's post on SeekingAlpha posted 2 minutes ago.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Oops...Quick correction.  I just realised what I typed.

 

Steinhoff still has to service the debt, of course.  But the CVA allows them to only have to effect the payment to the lenders in 3 years.  By this time Steinhoff is a different beast and will have the ability to trim the debt.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82 

[Captainfrom82]

Yes

 

Hi Captain,

I think a lot of traders/investors got burnt and is probably tired of all the stress.

 

Yes LarryK.

 

I think that many people either invest without doing their homework, or misunderstand what they read. 

 

There has been a lot written (to be fair across the world) about Steinhoff's inability to service the  debt.  The point though that they fail to realise is that Steinhoff does not have to physically service the debt - that is the whole point of the CVA.  The interest will be capitalised over the next three years.  

 

By that stage, Steinhoff's equity position will be very different to the anemic value.  See my colleague BTDS's post on SeekingAlpha posted 2 minutes ago.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[LarryK]

Hi Captain,

I think a lot of traders/investors got burnt and is probably tired of all the stress.

[Captainfrom82]

Hi Lionel,

See you tempted again

I'm just hanging 10...and will only sell if I'm in the Green ie. > R2.43

Sent from my SM-N960F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

 

Hi Motivated - this is not aimed at you personally.

 

I must say that personally I do not quite understand the whole concept and logic making an investment in a company by buying shares.  You take all this risk, and then when you are back in the green to sell?

 

What is point?  All that risk and aggravation for what?

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

[Captainfrom82]

Steinhoff were and still are selling goods at huge discount, which resulted in a small 3% comparable extra revenue (just about 123 million euros), on expense of the profit margin the profit is either very low or at loss, just for the sack of raising some liquidity (also to pay the management fat salaries), all in all they need a profit margin to pay the huge 10% interest rate on the loans, something that's not either possibly nor reasonably achievable in their retails industry.

 

The defrauded share holders must hurry up with their cases against Steinhoff, so they hopefully can get some compensation for their huge losses, before the creditors suck every drop of money and asset from Steinhoff debt for equity for the creditors, probable speedy asst disposals or probable sequestration.

 

Hi Tom,

 

In South Africa, Section 135 of the Companies Act refers...

 

Creditors are seen as secured lenders or providers on capital.

Shareholders are sub-ordinate to creditors.

 

The question is as holders of residual value in a company if their claims are made via a law suit, if they are then seen as creditors.  I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure that they would remain subordinate to lenders.

 

In other words, as long as the lenders hold onto their creditors status there is little that shareholders can do to avoid "before the creditors suck every drop of money and asset from Steinhoff debt for equity for the creditors".

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Tom]

More litigation for Steinhoff as investigation nears completion

https://www.business...ars-completion/

Edited by Tom, 02 March 2019 - 02:29 PM.

[Lionelza1]

Hi M.... Yea I'm playing the "progress" of snh.... I have no interest on playing long.

I've experienced in the past how I was sitting on very decent gains but I didn't click sell and most of those gains got wiped out. Now if I see a good enough profit I sell them all... That's what the market has been doing anywayz... Have no interest in waiting for R9 or R20 or whatever

Best of luck on ur play

[Motivated]

Hi Lionel,

See you tempted again

I'm just hanging 10...and will only sell if I'm in the Green ie. > R2.43

Sent from my SM-N960F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

Edited by Motivated, 02 March 2019 - 10:58 AM.

[Lionelza1]

the general market trend has been buy the rumour sell the fact and after the fact the big drop then slow poison.....2 days of trading has passed since then and interesting to note it has not been the case this time around. 

 

should this market trend continue on monday then monday afternoon am back in. i anticipate a suprise sens before pwc that will rally share in positive direction (going with my balls again)

 

i think they done a sneaky extension on pwc, but whats 2 weeks..on the flipside, any negative news/any further delays, big drop (i somehow do not see this happening as i feel they have exhausted that trend....for now)

 

Q1 report to me, not fantastic, but not too shabby hey