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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51424] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 07:22   |
farouk 
Messages: 958
Registered: August 2009 |
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| Western Freedom wrote on Mon, 15 March 2010 21:51 | To late cuzzin. HDDB ruined your chance with his nice comments. But then aren't you HDDB?
Now lets see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYMQneyuPSM&feature=relat ed
Quran 98:6 says: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book = [Jews and the polytheists = Christians] shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.
Quran 2:193 says: Kill them until there are no commotions, BECAUSE the religion should be ONLY for alla.
Quran 8:12 says: strike off their HEADS and strike off every fingertip of them.
Israel and the West says: Come and try Nazi's 
Your hate is my gift to you Nazi's. Feel it, taste it and live by it. How's that land sharing looking at the moments cuz?
Guess it's time to up that the cardio my war machines.
The answers you seek about us, well you are just going to have to believe what your brothers tell you at those nice propaganda meetings of yours. Then come here and press repeat. We know, we know.
In the mean time I shall present a little more about the religion of peace. Interesting that you say it doesn't matter if 1 or 10 million died. What ignorance you illuminate, there are only 13 million Jews worldwide.
Class soon we are going to study what the other major religion known as Christianity feels about the likes of these fundamentalists of Islam. You notice friends that Jews and Christian live together in peace. No cutting of heads or breaking each others arms or mutaliting our wives etc etc.
However who can live in peace with the likes of FARDDB? Pieces certainly their the best for that job but what about peace?
Thank you.
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Tulmadic Lies
The best form of defence is attack but the Jewish Talmudic cowards attack with lies.
Firstly take all those Quranic chapters that he quotes and google it and you will see for yourself the lies he speaks.
Secondly you will never understand the true meaning of any verses of the Quaraan until you study why it was revealed, the time of revelation,the reason for revelation,who the revelation refers to and finally how the Prophet put the revelation into practise.
As for the rest of his comments....name calling shows his childish,arrogance and physio mentality.
I will continue striking falsehood with truth because at the end truth will prevail and falsehood will do the houdini act.
Long live peace.
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51433] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 08:55 |
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Gjlab sais:
And in today's times seeing daily how the preaching's of Mohammad and the Quran is blatantly ignored and rules created in direct contrast to be followed and adhered to.
All religions are flawed and man made, Islam, Jews, Christians, etc. All from the same origins with only a difference in who is the last prophet.
I do not believe in religion, I believe in God. All religions have the same rules to follow. The Ten Commandmends.
Western Freedom:
At long last and thank heavens, along comes a rational man who can get his point across without insulting or disgracing another man's beliefs.
Gjlab you are spot about religion. If we were all such great advocates of our own religion there would be peace and sharing without question. It's going to take people who can at least converse and get along to understand this and begin a process of peace.
Thank you for not insulting Judaism. I agree with your outlook whole heartedly.
Tank I don't trade shares but was given share options from a financial investment company where I used to work. Since I left to start my own business I have held them. Noticing how well a share could do over time led me to Sharechat to learn more about stocks. This is where I first noticed Farouks Charts. Little did I know the greatest investment I would ever make would be to defend my Grand Parents memory (as they were shot / the other buried alive) against this Nazi.
FARDDB, how's that SS sticker's sparkle looking? It's time to step into the logic of your burning ovens and enjoy some tea in your concentration camps of misinformation.
Your MBA on what is a Nazi and what other religions think of you is about to begin, including some in depth about the absolute wonders of the Religion of Peace.
Thank you
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51434] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 09:07 |
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hdbb
Messages: 539
Registered: August 2009
Location: By the sea |
Senior Member |
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Farouk has been banging the door on this everyday!If people would only read the Talmud and the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion they would quickly see that Jews consider christians as follows..
1.less than cattle
2.objects of scorn
3.that Christians exist to enrich Jews and therefore should not be treated with ANY kindness or fairness,etc.
They regard themselves as Gods choosen people.. what an insult to the rest of us!! Anytime you take a baby and from birth and tell that child that they are one of "Gods Chosen People" you r setting everyone else in the world up for trouble.How else can one understand the attitude and actions of the Jewish people, towards their neighbors, the Palestinians? ???
They can kill u, steal from u, rape u,etc. and it is NO CRIME in their religion! And not only that, they can LIE about everything with no punishment!
No wonder
1. WF lies here non stop
2. Palestinians being kiled every day without any conscience effect!
3. Madoff and Barnake are looting the treasury big time!!
4. The world is in a complete financial mess due to actions of some people!
Western FreeDumb bring it on, not the same old tape recordings please,thats getting a bit boring!!!
And please dont go to the Police cos i reckon they will lock you up!! Im just sharpening my knife....
hdb
The mediocre teacher tells.The good teacher explains.The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires!!
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51438] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 09:43 |
farouk
Messages: 958
Registered: August 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Hello gjlab
Your input are welcome but your opinions need criticism.(please take it with a pinch of salt).
Your Quote
"All religions are flawed and man made, Islam, Jews, Christians, etc. All from the same origins with only a difference in who is the last prophet."
If Islam is flawed and man made then provide me your documented proof.I take it your opinion is based on pure ignorancy.Note i am not going to give you a long sermon but i will make it short and sweet.In order to understand Islam one needs to study the Prophet of Islam from child birth to his demise.The Holy Quraan was not written by the Prophet of Islam.It was a revelation unto the Prophet and was written on paper after his demise.In order to understand the Holy Quraan one needs to understand the Prophets way of life.He,Prophet Mohammed (PBBUH),was the living Quraan.
So far as the origins are concerned you are right.Islam belive's in all the Prophets and all the books of revelation.Every Prophet came to this world with a message and that message was based on simple advise of "do good and forbid evil".Which ever religion or Prophet you follow the message of "do good and forbid evil" should make you a super human being and take you away from animalism.If any religion or Prophet takes you close to animalism (promoting all types of vices like gays,homosexuality,lesbianism,murder,rape,plunder,theft,)the n that is a false religion or man made religion which in actual fact is nothing but a cult.Of course all cults are breeds and followers of satan.
Finally note in no way am i promoting or asking any one to leave his way of life and join my way of life.The idea of studying the Holy Quraan and the Holy Prophet of Islams way of life is to eliminate ignorancy,falsehood and lies which originates from the followers of non other than satan.
The bottom line is if one strike falsehood with truth then you will see clear evidence in this very thread of how those with lies and falsehood becomes like animals and show their satanic cult.
Have a wonderful day and all the best.
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51445] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 11:01 |
farouk
Messages: 958
Registered: August 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Petition Against the Right of Return to Israel on Behalf of Australian Jews
MEDIA RELEASE 3 MARCH, 2010
Today is the national launch of a prominent new Australian initiative that rejects Israel's automatic right of return for Jews across the world.
Following a recent similar project in the US, 35 distinguished Australian Jews have signed a petition that indicates growing dissent from Zionist policies and dispossession of Palestinian land.
The ongoing occupation of Palestine, the siege on Gaza, the botched Mossad hit in Dubai and violence against Palestinians is encouraging a sea-change in global Jewish opinion towards the state of Israel.
Some of the key signatories include world-renowned ethicist Peter Singer, actor Miriam Margolyes, legendary feminist campaigner Eva Cox, La Trobe University's Dennis Altman, Monash University's Andrew Benjamin, Sydney University's David Goodman and John Docker, legal scholar GJ Lindell, best-selling author and journalist Antony Loewenstein, writers Susan Varga and Sara Dowse, ANU's Ned Curthoys and many others.
This statement is a direct challenge to the Rudd government's closeness to Israel and plea for a more balanced approach to the Middle East question.
Documented evidence that not all Jews are evil.Here are good Jews that are distancing themselves from evil Jewish invaders.In South Africa we also have Jews that are speaking against the present evil Israeli govt.
No doubt the present Israeli govt are a bunch of mafia's and thugs who originated from Europe.
Who are the Haganah?
Who are the Sterns Gang?
Who are the Jewish Brigade?
Google it and the truth will be reaveled.
These are the very people in power that started their "Final Solution" just like the SS and Nazis did, in 1933 to 1939.Crowd them into a corner, starve them and then make ware for their uprising, and kill as many as possible, was the Nazis war cry.Just as is with the IDF today.
Now you call me a Nazi.Who is a Nazi?Me or you.
Jews arround the World are seeing the big picture.They are distancing themselves from this satanic cult that is emerging in the middle east.Its time to repent.
Go back to the big 10 and flush the bigger 613 before its too late.
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51457] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 11:36 |
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Is Islam a peace-loving religion?
Bassam Khoury
Introduction
Ladies and Gentleman:
This subject is far from easy, for both you, the audience, and for me, because of all the things going on at the current time. I have one of two choices--and the easier of the two is still difficult. Should I say what is considered politically correct? Or should I tell the truth? I have chosen the latter, believing in what the Lord Jesus Christ says: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free".
The time limitations we have for this program doesn't make this job any easier, as it will be difficult to cover so much information or go into much depth in such a short time. But in the next few minutes I will do my best to address the issues of the "use of violence" and of "co-existence with other religions" in Islam.
Let me start by saying that God has given us free will to choose our own belief system. I am a strong believer in freedom of religion, and condemn no-one for believing something other than what I myself believe. I do not wish to offend Muslims by anything I say today, and I hope that you will accept my words in the spirit in which they are meant.
After the terrible events of September 11th, we have heard many Muslims saying what Islam does and does not teach with regard to violence towards others, and about the co-existence of Muslims with non-Muslims. Some say that Islam is a religion of peace, that it does not allow the killing of others, and that those who carried out the attacks are twisting the teachings of Islam by claiming to act in the name of Islam. Still others say that Islam does indeed allow the killing of others, and that it is even a noble aim. Who is right?
Obviously, we cannot judge any religion by just looking at those who claim to follow it. It would be all too easy to point a finger at the many Muslims who have perpetrated violence against Christians, Jews and others over the centuries and conclude that Islam preaches violence, or to point the finger at the many Christians who have perpetrated violence against Muslims, Jews and others and conclude that Christianity preaches violence. This would, however, be quite erroneous. Not all who claim to act in the name of a religion are true adherents to its teachings. To answer the question with which we are concerned today, then, it is necessary to go back to the sources of Islam to see what they have to say about violence and about co-existence with adherents of other faiths. I shall therefore first consider the Qur'an, Islam's holy book, that Muslims believe was revealed to Muhammad from God, and the Hadith, which are the collections of Muhammad's sayings and actions. These are the first two sources of Islam[1] I shall go on to consider the actions of the prophet of Islam and his companions as they were the people that understood the Qur'an the best, and who are taken as role models by Muslims today.
Abrogation Within the Quran الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن
What do we mean by the term "abrogation"?
The Arabic words 'nasikh' and 'mansukh' are both derived from the same root word 'nasakha' which carries meanings such as 'to abolish, to replace, to withdraw, to abrogate'.
The word nasikh (an active participle) means 'the abrogating', while mansukh (passive) means 'the abrogated'. In technical language these terms refer to certain parts of the Qur'anic revelation, which have been 'abrogated' by others. The abrogated passage is the one called 'mansukh' while the abrogating one is called 'nasikh'. (Ahmad von Denver, Ulum Al-Quran)
Understanding the concept of abrogation is very important in order to understand Islam. Within the Qur'an itself are statements which contradict others.
For example, I have recently read an article by Karen Armstrong saying: "the only permissible war (in the Koran) is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2:190)."
Others quote verses from the Qur'an like:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion" 2:256
"لا إكراه في الدين"
"Therefore expound openly what thou art commanded, and turn away from those who join false gods with Allah" 15:94
" فَاصْدَعْ بِمَا تُؤْمَرُ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْمُشْرِكِين" الحجر 94:15
These verses seem to say clearly enough that the Qur'an teaches a peaceful response to those who oppose Islam. But there are other verses in the Qur'an which say quite the opposite. For example "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" 9:5 (we will have a closer look at this verse later on).
Which verse should Muslims follow? According to the doctrine of abrogation, the later texts supersede the earlier whenever there are inconsistencies, or they are said to "abrogate" the earlier texts. Therefore, a Muslim simply needs to know which verse came earlier, and which came later. The importance of the doctrine of abrogation cannot be understated. In a mosque in the city of Kufa, Ali b. Abi Talib once saw people gathering around the judge, Abdur-Rahman. The judge was confusing that which is permissible with that which is not. Ali asked him whether he could tell the abrogative verses from the abrogated; he said that he could not. Ali then grabbed the man's ear, twisted it, and said: "you perish, and you make others perish. Do not judge in our mosque anymore.''
That is how important it is; the person who doesn't know abrogation shall "perish and make others perish", according to Ali Ibn abi Talib.
Returning to the three verses I quoted above, we see that all three were abrogated, according to Muslim scholars.(تراجع كتب الناسخ والمنسوخ لـ ابن حزم، الكرمي، ابن الجوزي، المقري، قتاده،...) (for detailed information check books under titles like The Abrogative and the Abrogated by authors like Ibn Hazem, Al-Karmi, Ibn Al-Jawzi, Al-Muqri, or Al-Nisabouri)
Suyuti in his book استنباط التنزيل (Istenbat al tanzeel) says: "Every thing in the Qur'an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5." Al-Shawkani in his book السيل الجرار (Alsaylu Jarar 4:518-519) says: "Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jiziah (special tax paid only by Christians or Jews) or being killed. [The verses] about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case."
Please note that I am not telling Muslims which verses to follow and which not. As I said earlier, I believe 100% in an individual's right to choose his or her beliefs. However, what I am saying is that according to the Islamic doctrine of abrogation, these verses are null and void. They are contradicted by later verses, and in Islam it is the later verses which must be followed today.
Let us now look at some of the Qur'an that was not written until later, in Madina
The Qur'an says:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors". 2:190
"قاتلوا في سبيل الله الذين يقاتلونكم ولا تعتدوا إن الله لا يحب المعتدين" البقرة 190:2
"And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter" 2:191
" وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَلِكَ جَزَاء الْكَافِرِينَ" البقرة 191:2
"And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and Faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression". 2:193
" وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّى لاَ تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَواْ فَلاَ عُدْوَانَ إِلاَّ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ" ابقرة 193:2
"Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not" 2:216
" كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَى أَن تُحِبُّواْ شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ" البقرة 216:2
Here we see for the first time that war was permissible. Remember that in the earlier days of Islam, war was not allowed. But these verses abrogate the earlier verses, allowing war both in self-defense and against those who the Muslims did not have a treaty with. However, even these verses were in turn abrogated by these later verses:
"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74
"فَلْيُقَاتِلْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ الَّذِينَ يَشْرُونَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا بِالآخِرَةِ وَمَن يُقَاتِلْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَيُقْتَلْ أَو يَغْلِبْ فَسَوْفَ نُؤْتِيهِ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا" النساء"74:4
"Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks." 4:89
"وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا" النساء 89:4
"Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home "4:95
"لاَّ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَةً وَكُـلاًّ وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا" النساء 95:4
"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly" 8:60
"وَأَعِدُّواْ لَهُم مَّا اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن قُوَّةٍ وَمِن رِّبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدْوَّ اللّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ وَآخَرِينَ مِن دُونِهِمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَهُمُ اللّهُ يَعْلَمُهُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِن شَيْءٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ" الأنفال 60:8
"O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding" 8:65
"يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ حَرِّضِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ عَلَى الْقِتَالِ إِن يَكُن مِّنكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَابِرُونَ يَغْلِبُواْ مِئَتَيْنِ وَإِن يَكُن مِّنكُم مِّئَةٌ يَغْلِبُواْ أَلْفًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَفْقَهُونَ" الأنفال 65:8
"Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers" 9:14
"قَاتِلُوهُمْ يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ وَيُخْزِهِمْ وَيَنصُرْكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَيَشْفِ صُدُورَ قَوْمٍ مُّؤْمِنِين" التوبة 14:9
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" 9:29
"قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُون" التوبة 29:9
"Say: can you expect for us (and fate) other than one of two glorious things (martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that Allah will send his punishment (for not believing in Allah) from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you" 9:52
"قُلْ هَلْ تَرَبَّصُونَ بِنَا إِلاَّ إِحْدَى الْحُسْنَيَيْنِ وَنَحْنُ نَتَرَبَّصُ بِكُمْ أَن يُصِيبَكُمُ اللّهُ بِعَذَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِهِ أَوْ بِأَيْدِينَا فَتَرَبَّصُواْ إِنَّا مَعَكُم مُّتَرَبِّصُون" التوبة 52:4
Now, what we see here is this: the Quran orders Muslims to fight in order to establish Allah's kingdom on earth (all of the earth) by any means. Most Islamic scholars say that one verse of the Quran (9:5) abrogates 124 verses, which are basically all the verses that talk about peace and forgiveness. This is the verse that says:
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practise regular Charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" 9:5
"فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ" التوبة 5:9
As we see clearly in this verse (which is commonly called the verse of the sword) there is only one way out for pagans (or infidels) to be spared from being slain. They should repent, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, i.e. become Muslims. As for people of the book we read the verse in the same sura v. 29, which tells us the way out of being killed "until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued"
They have to pay protection money and accept to be subdued, i.e. second class citizens, even if they live in their homeland. We see this put into practice in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Sudan, and all the Middle Eastern countries that were conquered by Muslims in the first 100 years of Islam. The ancestors of the Christians who live there now suffered a lot to stay Christian.
Now, there is a fiqhi rule that has to be taken into consideration when studying this:العبرة بعموم اللفظ لا بخصوص السبب, i.e. what is considered is the absoluteness of the utterance, not the specialization of the reason for the revelation. That is, they follow the letter, not the spirit of the law...
In other words Muslims scholars when they make a judgement they consider the Quran and Mohammad in the light of their meaning not in the light of reasons of revelation.
The Hadeeth
The Hadeeth are the sayings of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. They are the second source of Islamic doctrine. The Hadeeth completely agree with the Quran (concerning violence and co-existence). Hadeeth have the same concept of abrogation, and the same historical characteristics. That is, Muhammad's teachings were very peace-loving at the beginning of Islam, but then came sayings such as:
Ibn Haban in his Sahih, vol. 14, p. 529, narrates: Muhammad said: "I swear by Him who has my soul in his hands, I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter."
In his Musnad (vol. 2, p. 50) Imam Ahmed narrates by Ibn Omar: "the Prophet said: 'I was sent by the sword proceeding the judgment day and my livelihood is in the shadow of my spear and humiliation and submission are on those who disobey me.'"
Omar Ibn al-Khatab said: "I heard the prophet of Allah saying: 'I will cast Jews and Christians out of the peninsula and I won't leave any one in it but Muslims.'" (Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 2, No. 28, from the Muhaddith program[2])
Ibn Ishaq and al-Waqidi report that the prophet said the morning after the murder (of Kab Ibn al'Ashraf), "Kill any Jew you can lay your hands on." (El beddayah wa alnihaya Ibn Katheer vol. 4 in the chapter on killing Ka'ab bin al'Ashraf)
1 Muhammad's actions
Let us now look at the actions of Muhammad, the last prophet of Islam, as the Quran says "Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah" 33:21
"لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا" الأحزاب 21:33
Aisha (the beloved wife of Muhammad) said: "His (Muhammad's) character was the Qur'an" (narrated Muslim). Therefore the life of Mohammad reflects an accurate interpretation of the Qur'an.
When we read of the actions of the prophet of Islam, we see many cases of assassination. Most of these cases happened because someone criticized the prophet of Islam in speech only.
We read:
Ibn Ishak said: "The apostle said, "Kill any Jew that falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa محيصة b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa حويصة was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'" (El badyah wa alnihaya Ibn Katheer vol. 4 in the chapter on killing Ka'ab bin al'Ashraf)
2 `Umayr's Expedition To Kill Abu Afak
Mohammad once killed a man named (al-Harith b. Suwayd). When Abu Afak wrote a poem objecting to the murder, Muhammad said, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?" Whereupon Salim b. Umayr, brother of B. Amr b. Auf, one of the "weepers", went forth and killed him. (Ibn Hisham Dar el jeel Beirut 1411 Vol. 6 - UMAYR'S EXPEDITION TO KILL ABU AFAK)
3 UMAYR B. 3adi JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN
After Abu Afak was murdered, Asma wrote a poem blaming Islam and its followers of killing their opponenets.
When Muhammad heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Ummayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so Umayr went back to his people. Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of bint [girl] Marwan. She had five sons, and when Umayr went to them from the apostle he said, "I have killed bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting." That was the first day Islam became powerful among B. Khatma.
The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam."
(Ibn Katheer el bedayah wa alnehaya vol. 5 in the mention of the year 11 of hijrah also found in- Ibn Hisham dar al jeel Beirut vol. 6 UMAYR B. ADIYY'S JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN)
(البداية والنهاية ـ ج 5 ـ في ذكر السنة 11 من الهجرة ـ(
4 Killing of a slave woman.
A blind man had a slave who he had taken a concubine, the mother of his children, who used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop.
One night she began to slander the Prophet and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about this. He assembled the people and said: "I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up." The man stood up. He sat before the Prophet and said: "Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her." Thereupon the Prophet said: "Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood."
«اشهدوا أن دمها هدر» . ) نيل الأوطار للشوكاني _ دار الطباعة المنيرية ـ القاهرة ـ دون تاريخ ـ الجزء السابع. كتاب حد شارب الخمر. باب قتل من صَرّحَ بسب. النبي ـ و في سنن أبي داود ـ مركز الأبحاث والدراسات الثقافية ـ الجزء الثاني ـ باب الحكم فيمن سب النبي.)
(Naylu Al'wtar - Al-Shawkani Al muneeriah pulishing Cairo Vol 7 Book of Drinking Chapter on Killing Of One who declared a warning to the prophet - also in Sunan Abi Daowd Markaz Al'bhath wa aldersat althkafiah Vol 2 Chapter the judgment on one who swore to the prophet)
5 `Amr B Umayya EXPEDITION
Once Muhammad sent one of his followers named `Amr, to murder Muhammad's enemy Abu Sufyan. However, the assassination attempt failed. As he returned home, he met a one-eyed shepherd. The shepherd and the Muslim man both identified themselves as members of the same Arab clan. Prior to going asleep, the shepherd said that he would never become a Muslim. Umayya waited for the shepherd to fall asleep and thereafter: "as soon as the bedouin was asleep and snoring I got up and killed him in a more horrible way than any man has been killed."
Umayya returned and spoke with Muhammad. He relates.... "He [Muhammad] asked my news and when I told him what had happened he blessed me."
6 Umm Qirfa
Another example of Muhammad assassinating those who criticised him was when a woman named "Umm Qirfa" (Fatima) was taken prisoner. She was a very old woman. She used to mock Mohammad in speech and poems. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly, by tying a rope to each of her two legs and to two camels and driving the camels in opposite directions until they tore her in two. (Al 'saba Ibn Hagar vol. 4, page 231)
Muhammad's companions
قال الرسول: أصحابي كالنجوم،بأيهم اقتديتم اهتديتم "My companions are like stars, if you imitate any of them, you will, indeed, be guided" His companions were those who became Muslims and saw Mohammad while he was alive.
Yet reading the history of these companions we find some horrifying stories. Some of the incidents below would be considered war crimes nowadays.
Abu Bakr (the first caliph)
Waging war as the ultimate tool for propagating and defending Islam became a rule for who ever was in power and ruling the Islamic society. The first Caliph, Abu Bakr, who took the lead after the death of Muhammad, even launched wars against Muslims to force them to pay dues to him that Muhammad used to collect for himself (as related in the Qur'an 9:103).
Omar ibn al-Khatab (the second caliph)
Abd Allah ibn Sa'ed (Omr ibn al-Khatab servant) said: "Arab Christians are not Christians, I am not leaving them until they become Muslims or I cut their throats." (Kanzu 'umal al mutka al hindi vol. 4, No. 11770)
Khalid ibn al-Walid (the unsheathed sword of Allah)
The letter of Khalid Ibn al-Walid to the people of Madain:
"From Khaled ibn al-Walid to Marazebah the people of Faris [Persian people] peace be to those who follow the guidance. Praise God that your servants left you and you lost your possession and have been weakened. Anyone who prayed our prayer and accepted our place of prayer to the East [Qiblah] and ate our sacrifice that would be a true Muslim who has the same privileges and duties as us. When you receive my letter send me the ransom for the hostage we hold and asked for a covenant, or in the name of the God who there is no other god like him I will send you people who love to die as you love to live."
"والله الذي لا إله إلا هو،لأرسلن لكم أقواماً يحرصون على الموت كما تحرصون على الحياة".
During the battle with the Persians, and it was very tough war, Khaled said: "O Allah, if you give us victory over them, I swear I won't leave one of them alive and I will run their river with their blood."
Then when Allah gave them victory, Khaled send people to call for capturing everyone and asking Muslims not to kill anyone except who refuses to submit. After they captured them, they (the Persians) were brought to the river and were beheaded. The Muslims did that for three days till they had killed 70000.
(أبو بكر الصديق لمحمد رشيد رضا ـ البداية والنهاية لابن كثير في ذكر سنة 12 من الهجرةـ عن برنامج المحدث)
(Abu Bakr By Muhammad Rashid Rida "Muhaddith Program"[2] And Bedaya wa nehaya Ibn Katheer In the mention of year 12 of Hijrah "Muhaddith")
Now
I recognize that the information above is too much for some people, but I have used only little of what can be found in the Qur'an, the Hadeeth, and Islamic history books.
We have seen what the Qur'an and the Hadeeth teach; we have seen the actions of the last prophet of Islam, and the understanding of these teachings by his companions.
The question now is how do Muslims reconcile all of this with what we hear many saying; namely, that Islam is a peace-loving religion and it teaches co-existence with all other religions. I would love to believe that Islam is indeed the peaceful religion as many say it is. But until someone gives me a credible and peaceful interpretation of the writings and events I have outlined, I'm afraid I cannot.
One final thing concerns me. Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible." (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller ( عمدة السالك ), translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)
Ibn Shihab, another Muslim scholar said: "there were only three cases where lying was acceptable: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)." (More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote p.88) (Sahih Muslim, Book 32, No. 6303 from the Alim program)
I hope Muslims can tell us why should we believe what they say about how peace-loving a religion Islam is, when we know that they are permitted to lie in order to achieve a noble goal, i.e. making Islam the dominant religion of mankind. (8:39,40)
These are questions of the utmost importance, and I still hope we will hear an answer one day--before its too late.
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51474] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 15:42 |
farouk
Messages: 958
Registered: August 2009 |
Senior Member |
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When you can't criticise a propaganda machine for its promotions, both free speech and democracy are dead.
If you indulge in ad hominem attacks (attacking the person rather than the issue), you can expect the same in return. The issues related to the anti-Semitic label are many.
First, the expression "anti-Semitic" is a misnomer. It's defined as "hating Jews or Judeophobia." The label "anti-Semitism" is wrong because not all Jews are Semites, and many Arabs are.
In 2004, the US Congress passed the Global Anti-Semitism Review Act. The Act defines a person as being anti-Semitic for holding any of a number of beliefs. My comments follow each of the 14 items supposedly revealing anti-Semitism.
1) Any assertion, "that the Jewish community controls government, the media, international business and the financial world."
According to this, it doesn't matter whether the assertion is true or not. Truth is not an issue. Simply making such a statement violates the Act. In itself, that fact provides strong evidence of control of the US government.
2) The expression of "Strong anti-Israel sentiment."
Any criticism of Israel can thus be considered anti-Semitic. Israel can mangle Gaza and get away with it.
3) Expressing "Virulent criticism" of Israel's leaders, past or present.
Menachem Begin may have led the Irgun in the slaughter and dispossession of thousands of Palestinians, but it's anti-Semitic to say so.
4) Any criticism of the Jewish religion or its religious leaders with its emphasis on the Talmud and Kabbala.
It's perfectly acceptable to vilify Islam, but any criticism of Judaism violates the Act.This is called free speech.
5) Any criticism of the United States Government and Congress for being under the undue influence by the Jewish-Zionist community, which would include Jewish organizations such as AIPAC.
Truth matters not to the ridiculous legislators who passed this ludicrous act.
6) Any criticism of the Jewish-Zionist community for promoting globalism or what some call the "New World Order."
When you can't criticise a propaganda machine for its promotions, both free speech and democracy are dead.
7) Placing any blame on Jewish leaders and their followers for inciting the Roman crucifixion of Christ.
In order to accommodate the anti-Semitism label, simply rewrite history.
 Citing any facts that could in any way diminish the "six million" figure of Jewish holocaust victims.
I violate the act simply by citing the fact that five million non-Jews died at the hands of the Nazis. This goes beyond stifling free speech.
9) Claiming that Israel is a racist state.
That's not a claim. It's a fact. Israel is full of racist laws. It insists on preserving its racist character and its right to impose apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza.
10) Making any claim that there is a "Zionist Conspiracy."
A rational provision for such a claim would insist on evidence as proof of its validity. To disallow making such a claim is existentially (Israelis love that word) dictatorial.
11) Offering proof that Jews and their leaders created Communism and the Bolshevik revolution in Russia.
It just became illegal to offer proof. Minds are made up. Don't confuse them with the facts.
12) Making derogatory statements about Jewish persons.
Why limit it to Jewish persons?
13) Asserting that spiritually disobedient Jews do not have the Biblical right to re-occupy Palestine.
Why limit it to the spiritually disobedient?
14) Making any allegations of Mossad involvement in the 9/11 attack.
I just did in the beginning of this very thread.
The Act passed by the US Congress makes me anti-Semitic. It's an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution. I'm a critic of Israel when they commit wrongs and a critic of America when it does wrong. Despite Congress, that's not anti-Semitic.
Fortunately i am living in South Africa so i have the same privilege as Congress.
[Updated on: Tue, 16 March 2010 15:44]
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51500] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 21:23 |
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hdbb
Messages: 539
Registered: August 2009
Location: By the sea |
Senior Member |
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People in large numbers do not oppose others without reason..Check the history books and ull understand why..
As far as killing people goes,say stop to the world and let us go on a tour of the last 100 years and see how many Jews have blood stains on their hands, then and now, for what ever the reasons..
ARABS ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS AND YOU ARE KILLING THEM AND TAKING THEIR HOMES, LANDS, LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS, IN AN INHUMANE WAY..
If that's how you profess Gods people are, then you and all who agree with you, are all a bunch of phonies and frauds...
and a disgrace to God by your actions and deeds, I would never join a cult such as yours and would recommend that to the whole worlds people.I suggest you turn back to God and his laws lest the worst is coming to you shortly by God.....Again and only much severe!!!
ISRAEL is responsible for the deaths of 1000's of 'INNOCENT PEOPLE' in Palestine...
Also the Crime of LAND THEFT...
And the world agrees, Just ask the UN...
YOU ARE NOT THE INNOCENT PEOPLE ANYMORE, LIKE THOSE KILLED BY HITLER....
YOU ALL HAVE BECOME HITLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JESUS CHRIST, speaking to the Jews in the Gospel of St. John, VIII:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it.- then answered the Jews - "
hdb
The mediocre teacher tells.The good teacher explains.The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires!!
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| Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [message #51502] |
Tue, 16 March 2010 23:56 |
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Here's a typical sermon in a typical moderate Palestinian mosque. Watch through to the end. It's not just Jews they hate. It's the entire West. It's what they teach.
You will notice much of what Farouk echos all day long is all said in this recording. You have all seen where Farouks pitch began and now you will get a chance to see where it ends. Evidence can be a terrible burden my friend. I plan to offer you so many more cups of tea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7_LfghKTrk
Farddb, how difficult your task must be trying to set people free here when it is not only your bloody war on Israel that you desire so desperately but the fact that so much of the free world is already at war with you guys. Everyday, every free nation is just shaking your hands with the hand of G-D.
But please go ahead and offer us you lessons of truth. I'm sure your can swing the Jews and Christians over to your lovely principles and lessons of peace. Don't worry that Millions of Christian and Jewish soldiers are currently engaged in a global war on various fronts with your mickey mouse club already. No really were listening. Anyone for some laughing gas?
Have you noticed something my 2 students? It takes only 1 post of mine to ignite so much hatred in you. Seeing you hate. Priceless! You guys bring me happiness. The one chance I got in my life to show a few Nazi's the true power of hate vs freedom.
There will be no lie spared here for the sake of Global domination my Persian kittens.
Think you can stop me. Hitler thought so. But I promised my murdered late Grandparents never ever again. Didn't have to pray to G-D for long before the rain came down to clean up your filth
How about I let you into Erets Israel for just a minute?
Just not in my lifetime.
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i think we all joined this forum to learn to trade better, of course our belief systems, state of the worlds etc is important and proper debate shouldnt be discouraged anywhere. still a chart or a post re trading in between would be great 
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