Forum Search:

Home » ShareChat » ShareChat » Market Update (Contango's views on equities, FX & commodities)
Re: Market Update [message #50852] Fri, 05 March 2010 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
duderoo  South Africa
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2006
Senior Member
Hi Contango

Thank you for the detailed and insightful info....when you refer to markets are talking about ours or the US?
Re: Market Update [message #50853] Fri, 05 March 2010 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CFD Trader
Messages: 570
Registered: January 2010
Location: Pretoria,ZA
Senior Member
US markets from the graph above WS30
Re: Market Update [message #50854] Fri, 05 March 2010 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wallst500
Messages: 45
Registered: February 2010
Member
Also remember it's the mother of all news releases today in the US. Non Farm Payrolls!!!

We can also see that the Dow Jones, S&P500 and Nasdag are all trapped in a 3 day range, awaiting direction from the all important jobs number.

http://content.screencast.com/users/wallst500/folders/Jing/media/d512af95-b446-446e-9990-bb542188db62/2010-03-05_0925.png

http://content.screencast.com/users/wallst500/folders/Jing/media/9bc0b7ef-782f-422e-84df-0bdd070703f3/S_P500.png

http://content.screencast.com/users/wallst500/folders/Jing/media/9df3b0e2-215c-4741-a5e4-057a52090737/2010-03-05_0924.png
Re: Market Update [message #50858] Fri, 05 March 2010 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CFD Trader
Messages: 570
Registered: January 2010
Location: Pretoria,ZA
Senior Member
What's the consensus their from up your street Walls?

Or is what these people say generally correct ?

http://www.forexyard.com/en/market-analysis/us_non-farm_payr olls_set_to_be_released_today!-2010-03-05

Oil will go down on jobs data and Dollar will go up weakening demand for Copper and metals ..?
Re: Market Update [message #50859] Fri, 05 March 2010 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CFD Trader
Messages: 570
Registered: January 2010
Location: Pretoria,ZA
Senior Member
i.e. LONG USD/JPY, USD/GBP and short EUR/USD ?
Re: Market Update [message #50860] Fri, 05 March 2010 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
contango  South Africa
Messages: 1322
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member

index.php/fa/2669/0/

As you can see from the calendar the consensus for NFP is very bearish i.e. market expecting bad news. So you would think there's lots of upside should the number come in less worse than expected. However, remember that these consensus figures come from analysts and traders are actually pricing in a better number already. So don't expect the markets to rally massively on a better number. However, if the number is worse then expect a big sell-off.

  • Attachment: calendar.jpg
    (Size: 69.76KB, Downloaded 709 time(s))


Disclaimer:
This does not constitute guidance or a transaction proposal. You should not place any reliance on it when entering into transactions.
Re: Market Update [message #50862] Fri, 05 March 2010 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wallst500
Messages: 45
Registered: February 2010
Member
Heya CFDTrader,

The only thing I know about NFP is that is as unpredictable as it is volatile.
I love watching CNBC and Bloomberg before NFP to see how these analysts try and predict what the release will be. I think read somewhere 17 out of 18 analysts get NFP wrong!!

But judging by the sudden leap in 2yr US Treasury Yields yesterday, the flavour of the day is definetly ... Risk Appetite. We saw the single currency JPY weaken sharply in direct correlation to the treasury yield jump, which clearly points to risk appetite.
So for this risk appetite to continue we're going to need a weaker than expected NFP. (-85K and lower)
If NFP comes out stronger than expected (+5K and above) we might see traders reverting back to risk aversion, a flight back to safety if you will.
There is also an uneasy feeling between traders of how long the market can continue rallying on effectively weak fundamentals and excessive positive sentiment.
Re: Market Update [message #50863] Fri, 05 March 2010 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tbone  South Africa
Messages: 79
Registered: May 2009
Location: Durban
Member

Contango

Should there be a sell off, would that be the lift the gold bugs are waiting for, or would that affect all across the board.

And should there be a rally, would that be across board, or only in equities?

Thanking you in advance.

T
Re: Market Update [message #50865] Fri, 05 March 2010 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CFD Trader
Messages: 570
Registered: January 2010
Location: Pretoria,ZA
Senior Member
Thx Walls, re your last comment that uneasy feeling has been in my stomach the last 2 days as well

For JUST that reason I got out of MTX long just now, as it also failed to effectively break the 475c level on good volumes this morning and slid yesterday in trading, the 6c up today is just a temp up blip..

I'll wait until later today to see how FTSE react to Asian session etc. and then short just before 4pm later today

My take is NFP will be better than consensus at approx -60k and all will flee to safe haven Dollar rise, Comods weaken and Gold/Plats jump
Re: Market Update [message #50867] Fri, 05 March 2010 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wallst500
Messages: 45
Registered: February 2010
Member
Sorry just one note... if you look at the charts below you will see that there is fairly strong inverted correlation between Gold and the USD.

http://content.screencast.com/users/wallst500/folders/Jing/media/689313f5-cb04-493f-8d3b-210f2452480c/2010-03-05_1029.png

http://content.screencast.com/users/wallst500/folders/Jing/media/c40179a4-18e5-439f-8df8-4f4fafb03ae3/2010-03-05_1030.png
Re: Market Update [message #50871] Fri, 05 March 2010 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
contango  South Africa
Messages: 1322
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member
Walls, treasury yields are going up because the FED is unwinding their corporate bonds and buying back treasuries from govt. It's another way they're reigning in QE. Bad luck China for selling their treasuries at the low... The FED wins again!

Also, for the 'risk-on' trade to continue we need stronger NFP i.e. significantly better than expectations at -68K and probably better than -50K. Anything under that and markets will probably remain nervous.

T-bone, have a look at the below diagram. Wall street (global stocks in general) perform well under a high growth, low interest rate environment i.e. when other fixed income investments are returning below average returns. Gold performs well in a high interest rate (high inflation) environment. However, gold is also a currency i.e. XAU:USD. So a lot of currency traders trade relative strength against EUR:USD hence the correlation between XAU and EUR.

index.php/fa/2670/0/

So if non-farm payrolls are generally negative the outlook for the US economy is low growth therefore dampening both equities and gold because interest rates are still very low. However, a lot of people are invested in gold as a safe haven should we have another equity crash because interest rates can't go any lower right now in developed economies.

  • Attachment: MATRIX.JPG
    (Size: 27.01KB, Downloaded 633 time(s))


Disclaimer:
This does not constitute guidance or a transaction proposal. You should not place any reliance on it when entering into transactions.
Re: Market Update [message #50872] Fri, 05 March 2010 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
farouk  South Africa
Messages: 958
Registered: August 2009
Senior Member
The start of each new month brings with it one of the most significant economic reports: Non-Farm Employment Change, also known as Non-Farm Payrolls (NFP). The point here is not to inundate you with information about the NFP report which you already know. The purpose is to provide an interesting analysis about how to utilize the price movement of the EUR/USD following this release.

Two approaches can be used when considering such news events. The first is the straight-forward "forecast vs. actual" results. The second approach takes outside factors, primarily the ADP Non-Farm Employment Change estimate, into consideration when viewing the results.

Over the past year and a half, the early release of ADP's Non-Farm Employment Change estimate has been strangely inaccurate due to the unpredictability of the employment market during the financial crisis and recession. However, as I'll show in this article, we are beginning to see a return to normalcy with ADP's predictive power, and we can use that to make some quick gains in the forex market trading the EUR/USD.

I'll start with the first approach. Friday's NFP forecast is for an employment change of -40K, meaning 40,000 jobs are expected to have been lost in the non-farm employment sectors of the economy last month. If expectations are better, such as a reading of -10K, the USD will likely appreciate, meaning the EUR/USD will go down. This is the first approach to Friday's release.

On the other hand, the previous 2 months' release of ADP's Non-Farm estimate have been more inline with the actual release of the NFP report the following Friday. I've provided the numbers below to help explain:

- January's ADP forecast: -74K
- January's ADP actual results: -84K
- January's NFP forecast: -3K
- January's NFP actual results: -85K

- February's ADP forecast: -31K
- February's ADP actual results: -22K
- February's NFP forecast: 10K
- February's NFP actual results: -20K

The important thing to take away from the above information is the following. January's ADP forecast and actual results are more or less the same, and the EUR/USD's price movement following this release was an upward movement. The actual results of the NFP report the following Friday was inline with ADP's actual results, and the result was that the EUR/USD continued the trend established by the ADP results.

In February it was the exact same. ADP's actual results were inline with the NFP report's actual results and the EUR/USD trend which was established by the ADP was continued, despite the NFP results being drastically different than the NFP forecast.

Now, looking at this month's expectations we can see that Wednesday's ADP estimate is calling for an employment change of -20K, but the NFP forecast is calling for a change of -40K. This gives us two conflicting points of view. Should the NFP's actual results come inline with Wednesday's ADP report, it means that the actual results are better than forecast and should help the USD gain strength, meaning the EUR/USD will go down.

However, Wednesday's ADP report pushed the USD down since it was worse than expected. If the NFP report comes inline with ADP's estimate, the USD should continue Wednesday's trend, meaning the EUR/USD will go up.

In my opinion, it appears as if the following may happen. Should Friday's NFP report come inline with Wednesday's ADP figures, traders will likely see a sharp jump in the strength of the Dollar meaning the EUR/USD will drop rapidly as the better than expected results boost the greenback but this will be followed by a correction, and the pair's overall daily movement may actually be in an upward direction since it is likely that it will continue Wednesday's established trend.
Re: Market Update [message #50873] Fri, 05 March 2010 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tbone  South Africa
Messages: 79
Registered: May 2009
Location: Durban
Member

Contango

Thanks for the above.

T
Re: Market Update [message #50905] Fri, 05 March 2010 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
contango  South Africa
Messages: 1322
Registered: October 2004
Senior Member

non-farm payrolls came in better than expected but pretty much as the professional money was expecting. Markets probably move up from here...


Disclaimer:
This does not constitute guidance or a transaction proposal. You should not place any reliance on it when entering into transactions.
Re: Market Update [message #50906] Fri, 05 March 2010 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
duderoo  South Africa
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2006
Senior Member
contango, u waiting till monday to go long?
Re: Market Update [message #50929] Fri, 05 March 2010 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CFD Trader
Messages: 570
Registered: January 2010
Location: Pretoria,ZA
Senior Member
Did I hear anyone saying 12 hrs ago this morning the Dow could be above 10,450 today and 10,550 by Monday IF NFP's aren't bad.......scary is all I say

It's now exactly JUST over 10,550 (hit 15:00 US time)10,570

[Updated on: Fri, 05 March 2010 22:13]

Re: Market Update [message #50948] Mon, 08 March 2010 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tank  South Africa
Messages: 2005
Registered: September 2007
Location: Richards Bay
Senior Member
dow is looking very good
Re: Market Update [message #51113] Wed, 10 March 2010 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
duderoo  South Africa
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2006
Senior Member
Me thinks we are heading north from now for another good push upwards.
Re: Market Update [message #51232] Thu, 11 March 2010 20:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CFD Trader
Messages: 570
Registered: January 2010
Location: Pretoria,ZA
Senior Member
Hmm I see the 10,550 level is holding up for now for a bit of a drive upwards..

US Jobless claims reduces indicating co's are hiring and people went back to work after heavy snowstorms etc. 2/3 weeks ago

US Trade deficit unexpectedly reduces thanks to Oil and exports

And guess what the Dow first go south before trading touching 10,518 at approx 09:57 am US time...

Scary how China is influencing all the small Investors and big banks moods....
Re: Market Update [message #52569] Mon, 12 April 2010 11:47 Go to previous message
Tbone  South Africa
Messages: 79
Registered: May 2009
Location: Durban
Member

Contango

You have been quite on this thread, do do mind posting any updates?

Thanks.

T
Previous Topic:ITALTILE LIMITED
Next Topic:Esorfranki
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Fri Jul 30 17:40:51 SAST 2010
.:: Contact :: Home ::.

Powered by: FUDforum 2.8.1.
Copyright ©2001-2009 FUDforum Bulletin Board Software

Sharechat is sponsored by Sharenet - Your key to Investing on the JSE