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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #35993]

Tue, 19 May 2009 09:34

In-the-money

Messages: 3
Registered: May 2009
Location: Fourways - Johannesburg

Junior Member

Hi

TKG will only go ex div on next week Monday. Thats when you will see a R19 fall in the stock. The current price of TKG actually includes the R19.

Cortex Online
www.CortexOnline.co.za

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #35994]

Tue, 19 May 2009 10:02

perreby

Messages: 2887
Registered: October 2006

Senior Member

True as that my be, fact remains that dividend needs to be included as part of TKG's price for this month's competition.

So while adding VOD and TKG together now to calculate the price of TKG for this month is fine, come ex-dividend date the calculation should be TKG+VOD+R19

Gaan groot of gaan huis toe

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #35995]

Tue, 19 May 2009 10:09

TaiQan

Messages: 1239
Registered: June 2005
Location: Cape Town

Senior Member

perreby wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 10:02

I think we should leave out the dividend as it would get messy.
But there is a way around this, if we want the dividend to be added, then it should NOT be the updater who has to read every sens there is; the contestant should inform the one who updates that the dividend will be paid out on such and such a date and that it should be included in the final price. Everyone should help make the updater's job a tad easier.

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #35998]

Tue, 19 May 2009 10:48

perreby

Messages: 2887
Registered: October 2006

Senior Member

Taiqan,

Note i am not talking about all dividends as this would over complicate the competition and be time consuming.

Im refering spesifically to the TKG dividend that flows from the unbundling of vodacom.

Fact remains if TKG didnt unbundle vodacom there would be no dividend in the first place. If vod is included as part of TKG's price now, why is the dividend not?

If they didnt pay out this dividend then TKG's price would not be dropping by R19 come ex-dividend date. So we gonna punish TKG shareholders with R19 per share (or 16% based on R118 TKG price before the unbundling of Vodacom) come ex dividend date?

Gaan groot of gaan huis toe

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36005]

Tue, 19 May 2009 11:53

ExpatTrader

Messages: 282
Registered: January 2009
Location: Forbidden Kingdom

Senior Member

Gents, you are crying over spilt milk and it is only a game. No money or lawsuits involved. We had a similar argument about shares being suspended a while ago. This was where PZG suddenly dropped to 0! That cost me a Top-5 position and hey...

I moved on with my life. The next month is a new round Smile

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36008]

Tue, 19 May 2009 12:06

TaiQan

Messages: 1239
Registered: June 2005
Location: Cape Town

Senior Member

ExpatTrader wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 11:53

Note, no one is crying.

Perreby does not have TKG in his picks, he is just debating an issue - nothing wrong with that. (anything to improve the competition is always welcomed)
I am the one with TKG in my picks and I am satisfied that Toad has adjusted the price to TKG=TKG+VOD

We've never included dividends as part of the price but Perreby puts forth that for this month only we should include TKG's dividend as part of the price. I don't agree as we would then have to make an exception every month.
So it's all the dividends or none at all.

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36010]

Tue, 19 May 2009 12:12

ExpatTrader

Messages: 282
Registered: January 2009
Location: Forbidden Kingdom

Senior Member

Thanks for clarifying. I vote to exclude dividends and keep it simple.

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36012]

Tue, 19 May 2009 12:37

Toad

Messages: 599
Registered: March 2008

Senior Member

I tend to agree with Perreby on this one, i.e. in cases where a share gets unbundled or restructured, and there's a div as part of the restructuring, that div should be allocated to the final outcome of that month's selection. BUT, that's always going to leave a question mark around the allocation of any div. So in all fairness I think we should not include it at all.
Will definitely simplify the "rules". Very Happy

So for next month, the following 2 rules will also apply.

1) No dividend will be added to a share's price to calculate its final price for the month.

2) If a share is suspended during the month it has been chosen, and not reinstated before the end of that months competition, the final price of that share will be considered to be 0 (zero).

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36013]

Tue, 19 May 2009 12:39

Toad

Messages: 599
Registered: March 2008

Senior Member

Should also include another rule ... Laughing

3) If a share is unbundled or restructured during the month it has been chosen, the sum of all the unbundled/restructured pieces/shares will be used to calculate it's final value for that month.

Will still work on the wording of this one though. Any help would be appreciated. Laughing

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36014]

Tue, 19 May 2009 12:57

TaiQan

Messages: 1239
Registered: June 2005
Location: Cape Town

Senior Member

Toad wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 12:37

2) If a share is suspended during the month it has been chosen, and not reinstated before the end of that months competition, the final price of that share will be considered to be 0 (zero).

Here, I think you should take the last price before suspension or just enter selling and buying price as the same. ie no gain nor loss - even

citing an example: CEL has been suspended from the 18th May. It was trading at 49c but they're delisting and paying out 50c.
So it's only fair that the shares should be evened out as above - no loss, no gain.

[Updated on: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:15]

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36021]

Tue, 19 May 2009 15:07

Pothole

Messages: 1970
Registered: September 2007

Senior Member

I agree with perreby ALL... THE .... WAY....
Doesn't matter anyhow; cause I will win this month!!!
Very Happy

Next time I will "unbundle" some shares and "unlock" some value and then I will WIN AGAIN. lol
But seriously, I need some clarification.... (will continue on other thread. Sure perreby has all the answers...)

The Share Market is NOT driven by Fundamentals.....
Greed, Fear, ..... Patience!!

*** Please do own research ***

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36024]

Tue, 19 May 2009 15:20

contango

Messages: 1322
Registered: October 2004

Senior Member

Once you guys have decided and made the relevant changes I'm happy to update the sheet again.

_{Disclaimer:

This does not constitute guidance or a transaction proposal. You should not place any reliance on it when entering into transactions.}

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36027]

Tue, 19 May 2009 15:50

Toad

Messages: 599
Registered: March 2008

Senior Member

I was approached by Mark Mayer from Sharenet offering to sponsor prizes for the monthly competition. I've in essence accepted his offer, but I'm really hoping the prizes are not going to change the true spirit of the competition.

Here's the email I received detailing the nature of the prize sponsorship ...

Quote:

Hi Herman

As per our telephonic discussion earlier, I am pleased to confirm that Sharenet is happy to sponsor monthly prizes to the first three placed finishers as determined by yourself. The first lot of prizes will be awarded for the competition month of June 2009. The values of the prizes are as follows:

1st Prize: R1,000-00 and a free month's use of Sharenet's Quickstream application worth R351.
2nd Prize: R500-00 and a free month's use of Sharenet's Quickstream application worth R351.
3rd Prize: R250-00 and a free month's use of Sharenet's Quickstream application worth R351.

Regrettably, if the winner does not possess a South African bank account, the cash element of the prize will be withheld. The Quickstream service however will still be awarded.

No late entries will be eligible for the prizes aforementioned. In this respect, Sharenet in consultation with Herman Wiid, will make any necessary decisions on the matter and such decisions will be final and binding.

Condition:
Sharenet only asks that the Sharenet logo be present on the excel standings sheet as a sponsor of the competition and that any text post with the standings include the words, "Competition proudly sponsored by Sharenet - Smarter investing, online"

I would suggest that you announce the good news on the forum...

Further: To thank you for you great work associated with running the competition and to also show Sharenet's appreciation for your continued administration of the competition, I can confirm that Sharenet has approved the activation of a free Quickstream account with Sharenet, to which effect, you should have received a welcome mail by now. We will continually extend the service for as long as Sharenet continues to sponsor the competition.

Thanks again and the best of luck to you! I hope you enjoy Quickstream as much as I do!

Kind regards
Mark

For those contestants that do not have a SA bank account, Mark has agree to provide free Daily Downloads instead.
1st Prize: 3 month free Daily Download + 1 month free Quickstream
2nd Prize: 2 month free Daily Download + 1 month free Quickstream
3rd Prize: 1 month free Daily Download + 1 month free Quickstream
If you do have a SA bank account you have the choice of either the Daily Download or the cash.

As you have probably noticed from the email I'll be receiving free Quickstream for the duration of the sponsorship. Therefore, in the event that I happen to win any particular month, and I'm going to try my best to Smile

, I'll be donating my free Quickstream to the contestant in 4th place and the cash prize will go to a charity of my choice.

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36029]

Tue, 19 May 2009 16:07

Pothole

Messages: 1970
Registered: September 2007

Senior Member

Nope. Not playing anymore.
Except if the prizes is back dates for the past year; since we started..........
Then I would also have downloads and stuff for ever!
Because now perreby is also going to switch to resources (and gold!!) and start winning and I won't be BM again.... Sad

And I don't know where I will play anymore, because the "other site" have over complicated their competition to an extent that I do not even check their picks anymore.... lol

[Updated on: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:10]

The Share Market is NOT driven by Fundamentals.....
Greed, Fear, ..... Patience!!

*** Please do own research ***

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36030]

Tue, 19 May 2009 16:08

gcr

Messages: 468
Registered: May 2007
Location: Randparkridge

Senior Member

Well done Toad on securing these prizes

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36031]

Tue, 19 May 2009 16:09

ExpatTrader

Messages: 282
Registered: January 2009
Location: Forbidden Kingdom

Senior Member

This is fantastic! Thank you Sharenet!!

I'll bet you we will have more than 50 contenders for the June 2009 leg.

And Toad, you deserve that subscription.

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36033]

Tue, 19 May 2009 16:19

Leo1

Messages: 296
Registered: July 2008
Location: Pretoria

Senior Member

Great stuff

Thanks Sharenet and Toad for his tireless efforts.

If I win this month I'll stick everything into CAE. Very Happy

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36034]

Tue, 19 May 2009 16:30

Leo1

Messages: 296
Registered: July 2008
Location: Pretoria

Senior Member

TKG+VOD vs TKG+VOD+DIV[ 10 vote(s) ]
1.	TKG+VOD	6 / 60%
2.	TKG+VOD+DIV	4 / 40%

Regarding the TKG/VOD unbundling debate I think all participants should vote. It only seems fair.

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36046]

Tue, 19 May 2009 18:16

perreby

Messages: 2887
Registered: October 2006

Senior Member

Well done to sharenet and all that secured the prizes. This includes Taiqan for starting the competition, toad, domi (and all others) who have uploaded picks and updated the sheets and ofcourse contango for simplifying the uploads of the latest prizes.

Before the prizes start though, we have to clear up the dividend flowing from restucturings and unbundlings. Been thinking about it for a while and i now admit its not the best way to go to include these dividends. Reason being, PSG paid a special dividend after selling quince capitalm, but that was not part of a restucturing or unbundling.

Therefore to keep things simple i say no to dividends.... Embarassed

Pothole, ill never switch to resources or commodities. Perhaps SOL or SAB (for the hops) every now and again but gold, platinum and the likes ill stay well clear off. Do think we will start to see some WILD pics come thru now... Laughing

[Updated on: Tue, 19 May 2009 19:06]

Gaan groot of gaan huis toe

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Re: LEADERBOARD MAY 2009 [message #36047]

Tue, 19 May 2009 18:37

contango

Messages: 1322
Registered: October 2004

Senior Member

I can't play for prizes as I'd be considered a "professional investor" (for what that's worth with my share picks) Then again, not registered as an equities trader so I might be safe... Smile

Happy to continue updating the sheet when possible and therefore should at least be neutral.

_{Disclaimer:

This does not constitute guidance or a transaction proposal. You should not place any reliance on it when entering into transactions.}

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