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#1 swartkat

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Posted Today, 08:54 AM

DTD....this is an article from 2018. It indeed does say approximately 20%. Is there however, any chance, that this figure could have somehow increased over the last 3 years with additional shareholders joining the class action? Keep in mind if it surpasses 25% , we are going to be facing some rough seas...this is not going to be good for the share price and thats just my concern..conversely if they dont have the requisite 25% we will see green all the way.Another thought,why would Hamilton oppose the global settlement with such stubborness if they didnt have the requisite numbers knowing well they wouldnt stand a chance in the absence of the 25%? Just playing devils advocate. Your response will be appreciated.

 

They dont want liquidation, what they want is to negotiate a better deal under the threat of liquidation


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#2 Tiekkie

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Posted Today, 08:44 AM

Pep, Ackermans owner expects big profit boost https://www.news24.c...-boost-20210511
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#3 Tiekkie

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Posted Today, 08:43 AM

Looks like Pepkor will not meet there expected EPS and Heps targets but still good numbers

Ignore this comment had a look and it is awesome results.


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#4 Tiekkie

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Posted Today, 07:40 AM

https://www.veb.net/...t-with-deloitte
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#5 Tiekkie

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Posted Today, 07:33 AM

Looks like Pepkor will not meet there expected EPS and Heps targets but still good numbers
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#6 Tiekkie

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Posted Yesterday, 04:24 PM

Hi DeltaHedge,

Please note this is my own thoughts and not investment ideas or advise.

I believe the outcome will be positive because I spent the weekend reading all the Application documents and from it its very clear (remember I am not a lawyer) Hamilton is very much on their back feet because I am convinced they don´t have the 25% required to stop the process.

You can read all follow the link: https://steinhoffset...-documents.aspx

According to Hamilton the De Bruyn case is different for me its very clear it is not. The company was the one that suffered the fraud and as such it has the right to claim. Shareholders only suffered a depreciation on the value of the company share. Further the judge was clear to state buy share in open market carries its risk.

Further if Hamiltons had more than the 25% they would vote the process down and would not need to fight about it asn as for Trevo they just noise.

As much as all the talk is about the share holders for me its all about Hamiltons pocket see below calculation:

Hamilton Claim R 14,163,675,343 ( you can find this figure on the application Hamilton submitted)
Hamilton share 15% R 2,124,551,301 (According to Ann they will collect 15% for the trouble)
RoE R 17.30
Hamilton share 15% in EUR: €122,806,434

Proposed settlement 6% of Claim value: R 849,820,521 ( This is 6% of the initial value)
Hamilton share: R 127,473,078
RoE: R 17.30

Hamilton share 15% in EUR: €7,368,386

Difference in income to Hamilton a whopping: €115,438,048

So for me the real truth is all this to fetch Eur 7 mil is looking at a possible loss and this will not look good for their reputation.

On the other hand if this goes to court and the De Bruyn case stands then the hotshot investment houses and Hamilton walk away with nothing.

This is going to make the investment houses think very hard because if they settled and just wait for the share price to correct they would make more money than in a liquidation.

So all I am doing is sitting on my hands fishing waiting for 15 June or the next announcement Hamilton accepting the deal!!!!

where will the share price be by then?
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#7 Tentative

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Posted Yesterday, 02:02 PM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had thought the same about incentives in all of this; all parties obviously know the share price potential in case of a settlement; am sure that they won't admit openly however this surely must be a factor; either scraps, or settlement + share price appreciation.

 

High-stakes poker for sure, but at one point incentives will align?

 

Hi DeltaHedge, 

 

Please note this is my own thoughts and not investment ideas or advise.

 

I believe the outcome will be positive because I spent the weekend reading all the Application documents and from it its very clear (remember I am not a lawyer) Hamilton is very much on their back feet because I am convinced they don´t have the 25% required to stop the process.

 

You can read all follow the link: https://steinhoffset...-documents.aspx

 

According to Hamilton the De Bruyn case is different for me its very clear it is not. The company was the one that suffered the fraud and as such it has the right to claim. Shareholders only suffered a depreciation on the value of the company share. Further the judge was clear to state buy share in open market carries its risk.

 

Further if Hamiltons had more than the 25% they would vote the process down and would not need to fight about it asn as for Trevo they just noise.

 

As much as all the talk is about the share holders for me its all about Hamiltons pocket see below calculation:

 

Hamilton Claim R 14,163,675,343 ( you can find this figure on the application Hamilton submitted)
Hamilton share 15% R 2,124,551,301 (According to Ann they will collect 15% for the trouble) 
RoE R 17.30
Hamilton share 15% in EUR:  €122,806,434
 
Proposed settlement 6% of Claim value:  R 849,820,521 ( This is 6% of the initial value) 
Hamilton share:  R 127,473,078
RoE: R 17.30
 
Hamilton share 15% in EUR:  €7,368,386
 
Difference in income to Hamilton a whopping: €115,438,048
 

So for me the real truth is all this to fetch Eur 7 mil is looking at a possible loss and this will not look good for their reputation.

 

On the other hand if this goes to court and the De Bruyn case stands then the hotshot investment houses and Hamilton walk away with nothing.

 

This is going to make the investment houses think very hard because if they settled and just wait for the share price to correct they would make more money than in a liquidation.

 

So all I am doing is sitting on my hands fishing waiting for 15 June or the next announcement Hamilton accepting the deal!!!!


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#8 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 01:49 PM

How we looking here DTD? 

You think **** will all come together positively in the end ?

D-day is soon ? 

I am guessing there will be further delays because some wankers just cant take whats given.

Hi DeltaHedge, 

 

Please note this is my own thoughts and not investment ideas or advise.

 

I believe the outcome will be positive because I spent the weekend reading all the Application documents and from it its very clear (remember I am not a lawyer) Hamilton is very much on their back feet because I am convinced they don´t have the 25% required to stop the process.

 

You can read all follow the link: https://steinhoffset...-documents.aspx

 

According to Hamilton the De Bruyn case is different for me its very clear it is not. The company was the one that suffered the fraud and as such it has the right to claim. Shareholders only suffered a depreciation on the value of the company share. Further the judge was clear to state buy share in open market carries its risk.

 

Further if Hamiltons had more than the 25% they would vote the process down and would not need to fight about it asn as for Trevo they just noise.

 

As much as all the talk is about the share holders for me its all about Hamiltons pocket see below calculation:

 

Hamilton Claim R 14,163,675,343 ( you can find this figure on the application Hamilton submitted)
Hamilton share 15% R 2,124,551,301 (According to Ann they will collect 15% for the trouble) 
RoE R 17.30
Hamilton share 15% in EUR:  €122,806,434
 
Proposed settlement 6% of Claim value:  R 849,820,521 ( This is 6% of the initial value) 
Hamilton share:  R 127,473,078
RoE: R 17.30
 
Hamilton share 15% in EUR:  €7,368,386
 
Difference in income to Hamilton a whopping: €115,438,048
 

So for me the real truth is all this to fetch Eur 7 mil is looking at a possible loss and this will not look good for their reputation.

 

On the other hand if this goes to court and the De Bruyn case stands then the hotshot investment houses and Hamilton walk away with nothing.

 

This is going to make the investment houses think very hard because if they settled and just wait for the share price to correct they would make more money than in a liquidation.

 

So all I am doing is sitting on my hands fishing waiting for 15 June or the next announcement Hamilton accepting the deal!!!!


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#9 DeltaHedge

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Posted Yesterday, 12:05 PM

I don't pay much attention to what she writes because does not say much.

 

How we looking here DTD? 

You think **** will all come together positively in the end ?

D-day is soon ? 

I am guessing there will be further delays because some wankers just cant take whats given.


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#10 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:38 AM

Can Ann Crotty be trusted?

I don't pay much attention to what she writes because does not say much.


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#11 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:32 AM

Old Mutual

Added - 41mil in Feb

Added - 16mil in Mar

Dropped - 25mil in Apr

 

Looks more like they trading it.

Yes indeed does look that way!!


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#12 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 11:31 AM

Sorry DTD, I checked incorrectly... Old Mutual lowered their holding by 34% to 49 mill.  PIC lowered their holdings by 1.5% to 323mill.... But JPMC-Vanguard Lending Account increased their holding from 21 mill to 65mill...  Not sure how the JPMC"lending account's holdings work...

Thanks Polla this is still good news Vanguard is a well known investment house!!


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#13 Bubble

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Posted Yesterday, 10:35 AM

Old Mutual

Added - 41mil in Feb

Added - 16mil in Mar

Dropped - 25mil in Apr

 

Looks more like they trading it.

Attached Files


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#14 Polla

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Posted Yesterday, 09:37 AM

Thanks Polla what is their holding now? What about the PIC?

Sorry DTD, I checked incorrectly... Old Mutual lowered their holding by 34% to 49 mill.  PIC lowered their holdings by 1.5% to 323mill.... But JPMC-Vanguard Lending Account increased their holding from 21 mill to 65mill...  Not sure how the JPMC"lending account's holdings work...


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#15 DayTraderDad

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Posted Yesterday, 09:30 AM

Old Mutual sold 67% of their shareholding during April....

Thanks Polla what is their holding now? What about the PIC?


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#16 Polla

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Posted Yesterday, 09:09 AM

Sure there is always a possibility that they getting more support but there is also the other side people might be chickening out and rather take what there is then get nothing all together.

 

Then one ask the question why would PIC and Old Mutual spend nearly R 80 mil each buying more SNH shares in February and March is they know that they pushing for SNH liquidation?  I have not seen the shareholding change for April (maybe someone can post that) but would be interested to know if there was no change.

 

I also believe if Hamiltons were so sure they have more than the 25% then the fight would be different they would simply vote against and would be no need for them to go to court to try and stop the settlement. Any lawyers ready your thoughts!!!

Old Mutual sold 67% of their shareholding during April....


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#17 Bubble

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Posted Yesterday, 08:50 AM

Can Steinhoff be trusted? https://www.moneyweb...off-be-trusted/

 

Can Ann Crotty be trusted?


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#18 Squideye

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Posted Yesterday, 06:37 AM

Can Steinhoff be trusted? https://www.moneyweb...off-be-trusted/


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Everything in the world is only for those who have eyes to see it...


#19 DayTraderDad

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 03:17 PM

They could very well try an persuade other claimants that accepted the settlement not to accept it anymore. Some Harvey Spectre move. Still not sure how they think they'll be getting fair value if the SNH is forced into liquidation

Sure there is always a possibility that they getting more support but there is also the other side people might be chickening out and rather take what there is then get nothing all together.

 

Then one ask the question why would PIC and Old Mutual spend nearly R 80 mil each buying more SNH shares in February and March is they know that they pushing for SNH liquidation?  I have not seen the shareholding change for April (maybe someone can post that) but would be interested to know if there was no change.

 

I also believe if Hamiltons were so sure they have more than the 25% then the fight would be different they would simply vote against and would be no need for them to go to court to try and stop the settlement. Any lawyers ready your thoughts!!!


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#20 sommerso

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Posted 08 May 2021 - 02:03 PM

DTD....this is an article from 2018. It indeed does say approximately 20%. Is there however, any chance, that this figure could have somehow increased over the last 3 years with additional shareholders joining the class action? Keep in mind if it surpasses 25% , we are going to be facing some rough seas...this is not going to be good for the share price and thats just my concern..conversely if they dont have the requisite 25% we will see green all the way.Another thought,why would Hamilton oppose the global settlement with such stubborness if they didnt have the requisite numbers knowing well they wouldnt stand a chance in the absence of the 25%? Just playing devils advocate. Your response will be appreciated.

 

 

They could very well try an persuade other claimants that accepted the settlement not to accept it anymore. Some Harvey Spectre move. Still not sure how they think they'll be getting fair value if the SNH is forced into liquidation


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