15225 replies to this topic

[Polly]

Steinhoff is

1.bankrupt, 

2.insolvent,

3.and a loss making company,

4.and on top of that it will need in the near future to service it's huge debt at 10% interest rate instead of the previously 5%, so Stienhoff is expected to remain in the loss making,

5.and the CVA dictates that Steinhoff needs the approval of the creditors should it want to sell any of its assets and that it cannot sell at less than the market price (and the creditors will be the ones to determine this price), so slowly Stienhoff will be sucked by the creditors as its debt grows and grows.

6. And on top of that the coming court cases and regulatory fines.

7.Steinhoff is uninvestable, and its share price worth (according to me and many others) is zero,

8.the ones that buy it for more than zero are a high-risk takers or mis-informed.

Edited by Polly, 04 February 2019 - 02:52 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Phew Tom what  a post... I thought i was the only one here valuing Steinhoff at Zero...Took me over a year and + 1000 posts with sweat , pain , accusations , name calling etc etc...And here you summarize it in one beautiful paragraph...

 

Guys  Tom could have not said it better ...well presented and to the point...

 

 

and Tom i wish to add to your final comment....

 

high risk takers , misinformed  and " painful bag holders"

Yes so far you all talk Zero and bla bla but show me with figures so we can see. This bla bla is simple bullxxxt and guess work.

[Polly]

Steinhoff is bankrupt, insolvent, and a loss making company, and on top of that it will need in the near future to service it's huge debt at 10% interest rate instead of the previously 5%, so Stienhoff is expected to remain in the loss making, and the CVA dictates that Steinhoff needs the approval of the creditors should it want to sell any of its assets and that it cannot sell at less than the market price (and the creditors will be the ones to determine this price), so slowly Stienhoff will be sucked by the creditors as its debt grows and grows.

And on top of that the coming court cases and regulatory fines.

 

Steinhoff is uninvestable, and its share price worth (according to me and many others) is zero, the ones that buy it for more than zero are a high-risk takers or mis-informed.

 

Phew Tom what  a post... I thought i was the only one here valuing Steinhoff at Zero...Took me over a year and + 1000 posts with sweat , pain , accusations , name calling etc etc...And here you summarize it in one beautiful paragraph...

 

Guys  Tom could have not said it better ...well presented and to the point...

 

 

and Tom i wish to add to your final comment....

 

high risk takers , misinformed  and " painful bag holders"

[DayTraderDad]

Steinhoff is bankrupt, insolvent, and a loss making company, and on top of that it will need in the near future to service it's huge debt at 10% interest rate instead of the previously 5%, so Stienhoff is expected to remain in the loss making, and the CVA dictates that Steinhoff needs the approval of the creditors should it want to sell any of its assets and that it cannot sell at less than the market price (and the creditors will be the ones to determine this price), so slowly Stienhoff will be sucked by the creditors as its debt grows and grows.

And on top of that the coming court cases and regulatory fines.

 

Steinhoff is uninvestable, and its share price worth (according to me and many others) is zero, the ones that buy it for more than zero are a high-risk takers or mis-informed.

Put figures to your comment so the people can analyse your thoughts. Bla Bla is useless and misleading information.

[DayTraderDad]

It is said here that TITAN had 0 shares in 2018/08/31 in SNH, this is probably false, because they have always had about 6% shares in Steinhoff since Feb-2018, and according to most references and news site, there's no mention of any change, let alone selling all of them and then buying that back.

If TITAN (owned by CW) is to sell its shares in SNH, then the price will simply go to zero, and this is one of the reasons why CW (and PIC) cannot sell these shares, they are unsellable shares, as no big investor will be buying them, and the small mis-lead investors or risk takers don't have that much money.

 

I think this reference is inaccurate (from my personal point of view).

I have confirmed with the company that keeps track of shareholding in the JSE and they confirmed that the figures are correct. So make of it what you want but its not false information.

[Tom]

 

So in summary TITAN share purchases in the JSE:

 

September bought: 137,558,263

 

December bought: 106,426,164

 

January bought: 2,123,923

 

Total purchases: 246,108,350

 

 

 

Below inserts from the reports: 

 

 

 

STEINHOFF INTERNATIONAL HLDG N.V. Shares Held 2018/09/28 Change in Shares Held Shares Held 2018/08/31

TITAN PREMIER INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 137,558,263 137,558,263 0 

 

STEINHOFF INTERNATIONAL HLDG N.V. Shares Held 2018/12/28 Change in Shares Held Shares Held 2018/11/30

TITAN PREMIER INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 243,984,427 106,426,164 137,558,263 

 

STEINHOFF INTERNATIONAL HLDG N.V. Shares Held 2019/01/25 Change in Shares Held Shares Held 2018/12/28

TITAN PREMIER INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 246,108,350 2,123,923 243,984,427 

 

 

It is said here that TITAN had 0 shares in 2018/08/31 in SNH, this is probably false, because they have always had about 6% shares in Steinhoff since Feb-2018, and according to most references and news site, there's no mention of any change, let alone selling all of them and then buying that back.

If TITAN (owned by CW) is to sell its shares in SNH, then the price will simply go to zero, and this is one of the reasons why CW (and PIC) cannot sell these shares, they are unsellable shares, as no big investor will be buying them, and the small mis-lead investors or risk takers don't have that much money.

 

I think this reference is inaccurate (from my personal point of view).

[Tom]

Steinhoff is bankrupt, insolvent, and a loss making company, and on top of that it will need in the near future to service it's huge debt at 10% interest rate instead of the previously 5%, so Stienhoff is expected to remain in the loss making, and the CVA dictates that Steinhoff needs the approval of the creditors should it want to sell any of its assets and that it cannot sell at less than the market price (and the creditors will be the ones to determine this price), so slowly Stienhoff will be sucked by the creditors as its debt grows and grows.

And on top of that the coming court cases and regulatory fines.

 

Steinhoff is uninvestable, and its share price worth (according to me and many others) is zero, the ones that buy it for more than zero are a high-risk takers or mis-informed.

[DayTraderDad]

https://www.pepkor.c...-presentations/

[DayTraderDad]

Thanks! Much appreciated. I do believe that should increase the share price should it be confirmed. Interesting that Christo Weise is increasing while continuing his court case and also saying that he does not want the businesses back.

Sent from my SM-J111F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

Yes, As of end of January Wiese owns 264 mil and Titan(which is his company)  246 mil. so total holding of 510 mil which is about 12%. So my question why would a person put so much money into a share it it was going to go to zero within the next three years.

[seeking knowledge]

To try and give you my thoughts about change in entity( I know already will get shot down but don't really care). I believe SNH will sell assets to reduce the debt to below 5,2 bil Euro by swapping debt for equity (That's why was important to have the LUA and now the CVA so that no fire sale takes place) and the debt left will be distributed to the various entities and after restructuring SNH will be a equity holding company of either listed or private listed companies in the form of : 1- PEPKOR 71%, 2- GREENLIT BRANDS 51%, 3- MATTRESS FIRM 51%, 4- POPCO EUROPE 70%, 5- CONFORAMA 51%. Each separated entity will have its own management just like it is at present with PEPKOR. After this will make no difference what is the name of the holding company because the value will be the sum of the parts just like PSG. So even if the name changes will not affect shareholders. The 18th April 2019 will be a very important day where all this will be revealed. Anyway these are my thoughts and is not surprising that TITAN commenced to buy lots of SNH shares after Jooste testified in parliament.

Thanks! Much appreciated. I do believe that should increase the share price should it be confirmed. Interesting that Christo Weise is increasing while continuing his court case and also saying that he does not want the businesses back.

Sent from my SM-J111F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[DayTraderDad]

To try and give you my thoughts about change in entity( I know already will get shot down but don't really care). I believe SNH will sell assets to reduce the debt to below 5,2 bil Euro by swapping debt for equity (That's why was important to have the LUA and now the CVA so that no fire sale takes place) and the debt left  will be distributed to the various entities and after restructuring SNH will be a equity holding company of either listed or private listed companies in the form of : 1- PEPKOR 71%, 2- GREENLIT BRANDS 51%, 3- MATTRESS FIRM 51%, 4- POPCO EUROPE 70%, 5- CONFORAMA 51%. Each separated entity will have its own management just like it is at present with PEPKOR. After this will make no difference what is the name of the holding company because the value will be the sum of the parts just like PSG. So even if the name changes will not affect shareholders. The 18th April 2019 will be a very important day where all this will be revealed. Anyway these are my thoughts and is not surprising that TITAN commenced to buy lots of SNH shares after Jooste testified in parliament.

So in summary TITAN share purchases in the JSE:

 

September bought: 137,558,263

 

December bought: 106,426,164

 

January bought: 2,123,923

 

Total purchases: 246,108,350

 

 

 

Below inserts from the reports: 

 

 

 

STEINHOFF INTERNATIONAL HLDG N.V. Shares Held 2018/09/28 Change in Shares Held Shares Held 2018/08/31

TITAN PREMIER INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 137,558,263 137,558,263 0 

 

STEINHOFF INTERNATIONAL HLDG N.V. Shares Held 2018/12/28 Change in Shares Held Shares Held 2018/11/30

TITAN PREMIER INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 243,984,427 106,426,164 137,558,263 

 

STEINHOFF INTERNATIONAL HLDG N.V. Shares Held 2019/01/25 Change in Shares Held Shares Held 2018/12/28

TITAN PREMIER INVESTMENTS (PTY) LTD 246,108,350 2,123,923 243,984,427 

[DayTraderDad]

on the contrary I have not seen anyone on TV advise that anyone invest in steinhoff in fact quite the opposite. I am in because I do see that it is undervalued. That does not mean there are not concerns about possible negative outcomes. I made up my own mind. A small segment of what I posted has been replied to with broad assumptions not looking at the question. Can Steinhoff hive off into a different entity and if so what are the potential implications for shareholders? I do agree with your broad outlook for the future and the moves taken support that. Ultimately I look at this site and Seeking Alpha to give me increased insight from people who have greater experience and insight than I have. Interesting that there are as many negative contributor's as positive. Thanks

Sent from my SM-J111F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

To try and give you my thoughts about change in entity( I know already will get shot down but don't really care). I believe SNH will sell assets to reduce the debt to below 5,2 bil Euro by swapping debt for equity (That's why was important to have the LUA and now the CVA so that no fire sale takes place) and the debt left  will be distributed to the various entities and after restructuring SNH will be a equity holding company of either listed or private listed companies in the form of : 1- PEPKOR 71%, 2- GREENLIT BRANDS 51%, 3- MATTRESS FIRM 51%, 4- POPCO EUROPE 70%, 5- CONFORAMA 51%. Each separated entity will have its own management just like it is at present with PEPKOR. After this will make no difference what is the name of the holding company because the value will be the sum of the parts just like PSG. So even if the name changes will not affect shareholders. The 18th April 2019 will be a very important day where all this will be revealed. Anyway these are my thoughts and is not surprising that TITAN commenced to buy lots of SNH shares after Jooste testified in parliament.

[seeking knowledge]

I agree with you anyone that invests on the basis what people say in chatrooms, TV, etc and don't have their own idea always loose on the long run just hope they not playing with CFD's!!!

on the contrary I have not seen anyone on TV advise that anyone invest in steinhoff in fact quite the opposite. I am in because I do see that it is undervalued. That does not mean there are not concerns about possible negative outcomes. I made up my own mind. A small segment of what I posted has been replied to with broad assumptions not looking at the question. Can Steinhoff hive off into a different entity and if so what are the potential implications for shareholders? I do agree with your broad outlook for the future and the moves taken support that. Ultimately I look at this site and Seeking Alpha to give me increased insight from people who have greater experience and insight than I have. Interesting that there are as many negative contributor's as positive. Thanks

Sent from my SM-J111F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[DayTraderDad]

remember the higher the price goes to , the bigger will be the unknown claims as they get reinforced......

 

If price drops after reports , then all doom and gloom irrespective of claims

Also so why is TITAN buying into SNH again if they going to sue themselves?

[DayTraderDad]

remember the higher the price goes to , the bigger will be the unknown claims as they get reinforced......

 

If price drops after reports , then all doom and gloom irrespective of claims

Before any claims are successful there has to be proven that the company commit fraud and failed to take action. The fact that management took action then SNH became a victim and has the right to claim just like shareholders. So if there was no fraud like Jooste said in parliament and it was the various auditors that allowed the inflated profits its going to be difficult to pin this on SNH.

[Polly]

My crystal ball says:

 

Once afs and pwc reports comes out, big spike up to near R5.00.....perfect shorting opportunity there

 

For next 2 to 3  years will consolidate and then dribble slowly down until the **** hit the fan to zero

remember the higher the price goes to , the bigger will be the unknown claims as they get reinforced......

 

If price drops after reports , then all doom and gloom irrespective of claims

[DayTraderDad]

My crystal ball says:

 

Once afs and pwc reports comes out, big spike up to near R5.00.....perfect shorting opportunity there

 

For next 2 to 3  years will consolidate and then dribble slowly down until the **** hit the fan to zero

Haha what can I say!!!! Think you brink more green beer than I do!

[Polly]

My crystal ball says:

 

Once afs and pwc reports comes out, big spike up to near R5.00.....perfect shorting opportunity there

 

For next 2 to 3  years will consolidate and then dribble slowly down until the **** hit the fan to zero

[Lionelza1]

WTF Lionel...You buy high and sell low....wake up

no no i havent sold....im frustrated, not emotional as some put claim.....my avg R1.80, i know there will be a pump on Q1, LUA and AFS, i wait for atleast the 1st 2 of them....im out as in i wont be influenced by what gets put on here

[Polly]

WTF Lionel...You buy high and sell low....wake up

PS if you mitigating risk thats fine....