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#1 JR7800

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 02:55 PM

Wow, looking back at my comments below (16 September 2016) I cannot believe I did not take my 1c per share (at that point R40 for every 4,000 shares held) and run. So, everyone have now lost even  more money.

 

I was there, voting against the share consolidation and I was told that day that the reason for the share consolidation was that the wild swing in share price (eg: at that point 2c and sold for 3c so 50% swing for the day). This apparently made it difficult to "do deals"???

 

I am so glad the swing in today's trade so far (27c to 15c = 44%) is not too big or an issue.

 

Do anyone know if they have paid the SARS liability yet? Although  I am not sure where the money would come from.

 

Did anyone here attend the last AGM? 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

JR7800

Posted 16 September 2016 - 12:37 PM

I see AFDAWN wants to consolidate the shares on a 40 to 1 basis.

 

I really hope everyone comes to the AGM and votes against this.

 

Currently the share price, for all practical purposes are 1cent. What this means is that the lot of us still holding shares cannot lose any more money. If you hold 4,000 shares @1 cent it is worth R40.

 

If we agree to the consolidation you will have 100 shares (4,000/40) @ the consolidated price of R40 (1 cent x 4000 = 40 cents x 100).

 

My problem with the consolidation is that it will mean you can lose more on your investment. As there is not really any good news to lift the share price from a consolidated value of 40c per share I will expect it to fall even further, even going back to 1 cent again. This will mean that your investment in 4,000 shares which currently can go below R40 rand will be worth: 100 consolidated shares @ 1 cent = R1.

 

So you have lost another R39 of your money by agreeing to the share consolidation.

 

Management must rather concentrate their efforts in improving the business and to start generating profits instead of finding ways for their shareholders to lose more money.

 

Management will most probably condemn this post again but I really don't care anymore. Have had enough of empty promises.

 

Hope to see all you shareholders who have had enough at the AGM.

 


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#2 Taurus

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:32 PM

 
...And now, the end is near. And so we face the final curtain. My friend, I'll say it clear. I'll state our case, of which I'm certain.......
 
 
 
 

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“In order to know how good you are at something requires exactly the same skills as it does to be good at that thing in the first place” 


#3 Sugafoot

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 06:52 AM

Moses would have had a tougher time getting water out of a rock... <br />Your staying power is commendable, guys


As I said then in 2015, I say now
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#4 ponzi

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 07:07 PM

Where are they going to get the money to pay this? What if they do not pay? So we will most probable see the last of this circus. Some clowns are gone already....  


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#5 Shi

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:46 AM

So, the fine payable to SARS is more than the market cap of ADW ... rights offer? race to 1c? It is below 1c already if you take last year's share consolidation into account.


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“One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. Which road do I take? she asked. Where do you want to go? was his response. I don't know, Alice answered. Then, said the cat, it doesn't matter.” - Lewis Carroll

#6 ponzi

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 04:12 PM

How can they still keep this shell listed? 


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#7 JR7800

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:27 AM

Hi all

 

Was anyone on this forum at the AGM this year? From the silence I gather it was pretty much the same as the previous years.

 

Any comments?


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#8 ajax

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 08:03 AM

There you have it....sale of KC 'the best deal' Jacques Groenewald has ever done at R6.5 million less than what they paid for it.Good riddance, should have happened 4 years ago!  


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#9 Guito

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:26 PM

What negotiations is the sens of the 14th July referring to? Can't be one of the old ongoing ones.

 

Your guess is as good as ours. The board is not really known for having strong communication (or negotiation for that matter) skills.


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#10 Taurus

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 03:32 PM

What negotiations is the sens of the 14th July referring to? Can't be one of the old ongoing ones.


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“In order to know how good you are at something requires exactly the same skills as it does to be good at that thing in the first place” 


#11 Ifnotwhynot

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:05 PM

Agreed, but maybe it is time to sit Mr. Brown down and have another chat.  Surely he cannot still want to just sit idly by given the circumstances which have continued to deteriorate.  In absence of business rescue, if the disgruntled shareholders could call a special meeting and re-constitute the board with competent, qualified, individuals, there is no doubt scope to offload KC (at a significant discount, but you need to cut off the foot with the gangrene), offload other loss-making assets, do a deal with SARS, streamline existing operations, and raise new capital for new acquisitions - all under a new brand because the AD brand is forever tarnished. This may sound like a pipedream, but it is all achievable... 

 

I agree wholeheartedly - so, when do we start?


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#12 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:04 PM

As long as the major shareholders are "happy" nothing will change. Sandown will not allow their loan to be on risk. JG is their proxy and has a responsibility to look after their interest. The Board members are just puppets. Business Rescue will be good for most stakeholders but not for certain parties....

Agreed, but maybe it is time to sit Mr. Brown down and have another chat.  Surely he cannot still want to just sit idly by given the circumstances which have continued to deteriorate.  In absence of business rescue, if the disgruntled shareholders could call a special meeting and re-constitute the board with competent, qualified, individuals, there is no doubt scope to offload KC (at a significant discount, but you need to cut off the foot with the gangrene), offload other loss-making assets, do a deal with SARS, streamline existing operations, and raise new capital for new acquisitions - all under a new brand because the AD brand is forever tarnished. This may sound like a pipedream, but it is all achievable... 


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#13 ajax

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:07 PM

As long as the major shareholders are "happy" nothing will change. Sandown will not allow their loan to be on risk. JG is their proxy and has a responsibility to look after their interest. The Board members are just puppets. Business Rescue will be good for most stakeholders but not for certain parties....
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#14 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:15 PM

Reading through their SENS and other public statements it is 'clear' that KC or AD did not make any investments at all. For Elite to grow in a very hostile environment they need cash and lots of it. SARS is still a dangerous threat. KC announced last year in January that they are closing the R100 million investment fund, do they have the money (fund) and if they do how did they apply it to render returns for the investors (fund investors). If ADs new model is the same as before; revenue from commissions and other services AD will never get out of the mess. KC is telling the world that they are good at mentoring other people how to run their business but I don' think they can be successful as entrepreneurs making good returns for all shareholders - no track record and no experiences.   

Business rescue is the only way forward. This will obviously never happens as it will impact on the Board and senior management - if they manage for the best interest of all stakeholders they will do it. Under BR the assets may even be be stripped and a workable plan with competent management be introduced. Why are the bigger shareholders not demanding action and why are they so gullible one will never know.                 

If memory serves, KC couldn't raise a R100m s12J fund - it's not easy to secure R100m based purely on BS! I think though that they may have managed to con some investors out of R50m (maybe to fund the bottom pit of lifestyle 'operating' costs)...


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#15 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:10 PM

Loss for the year increased by R4.4 million to R11.3 million

They will relook the Knife Capital business model.... maybe start with the KC DD done by JG!!  :ph34r:

That presupposes, Ajax, that there is (or ever was) a business model to evaluate...


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#16 ajax

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 07:29 AM

Loss for the year increased by R4.4 million to R11.3 million

They will relook the Knife Capital business model.... maybe start with the KC DD done by JG!!  :ph34r:


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#17 Pratlou

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:26 PM

Saw trading statement and it's clear there's no light in near term. Here's to another twelve months of cash burning.
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#18 ponzi

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:39 AM

Reading through their SENS and other public statements it is 'clear' that KC or AD did not make any investments at all. For Elite to grow in a very hostile environment they need cash and lots of it. SARS is still a dangerous threat. KC announced last year in January that they are closing the R100 million investment fund, do they have the money (fund) and if they do how did they apply it to render returns for the investors (fund investors). If ADs new model is the same as before; revenue from commissions and other services AD will never get out of the mess. KC is telling the world that they are good at mentoring other people how to run their business but I don' think they can be successful as entrepreneurs making good returns for all shareholders - no track record and no experiences.   

Business rescue is the only way forward. This will obviously never happens as it will impact on the Board and senior management - if they manage for the best interest of all stakeholders they will do it. Under BR the assets may even be be stripped and a workable plan with competent management be introduced. Why are the bigger shareholders not demanding action and why are they so gullible one will never know.                 


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#19 JR7800

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 08:07 AM

NotsoIntelligent Investor - I am not placing my faith in saving the company in KC. However, as I am dealing with high nett worth individuals on a regular basis, they are always looking for ways to expand and grow their wealth. With KC obtaining their SARS section 12J VCC it means that they could possibly attract more investments to be invested in new startups with the potential of great returns in future. VC investment is a long term play.

 

So, I still think that KC can provide future profits. I also noticed a while back that  FlightScope, the global developer of 3D Doppler ball-tracking radar for sports, has bought out its venture capital partner. As I read it, the investment was not made by KC but by HBD. KC only manged the investment. SO I do not think AFDAWN will benefit from the deal. I do agree that there is a lot of work still to be done by KC and AFDAWN to exactly show to the shareholders what investment are actually done by KC and which investments are only managed. This will give a better understanding to shareholders as to what benefit the investment is to AFDAWN shareholders, be it potential large returns via exiting of investment or just a small management fee on the managing of the investment for a 3rd party.

 

So we are back to the old issue of transparency. This is where management lacks big time. I am also invested in Jubilee Platinum. This company have also gone through a rough patch with shareholders left confused and looking for answers. Their management team realised that their shareholder needs to be informed on what is going on in the company and how they are managing their issues and business as it is the shareholder who will need to fund future investments. Look at their sens, brilliant. Although the business is slowly turning around, at least we as shareholders are not left in the dark.

 

I would really like to hear what the so called large investors have to say about their additional losses on the share consolidation. But as I was told during the voting session, it is easier to apparently to grow the share price from 40c to R4 than to get it back form 1c to 10c, both are 10x, I know but for some reason it feels easier to take a punt at 10c than for R4 on a AFDAWN share...

 

So, to sum up. KC will not be the savior but with right investment and transparency can add value in long run.


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#20 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:28 PM

With respect JR7800, on what do place your faith in KC? I was initially fooled by the smoke and mirrors as well, but once you peel back the layers of that onion, you release its rotten to the core...

By release, I mean realise...


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