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#1 Guito

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 03:26 PM

What negotiations is the sens of the 14th July referring to? Can't be one of the old ongoing ones.

 

Your guess is as good as ours. The board is not really known for having strong communication (or negotiation for that matter) skills.


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#2 Taurus

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 03:32 PM

What negotiations is the sens of the 14th July referring to? Can't be one of the old ongoing ones.


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“In order to know how good you are at something requires exactly the same skills as it does to be good at that thing in the first place” 


#3 Ifnotwhynot

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 06:05 PM

Agreed, but maybe it is time to sit Mr. Brown down and have another chat.  Surely he cannot still want to just sit idly by given the circumstances which have continued to deteriorate.  In absence of business rescue, if the disgruntled shareholders could call a special meeting and re-constitute the board with competent, qualified, individuals, there is no doubt scope to offload KC (at a significant discount, but you need to cut off the foot with the gangrene), offload other loss-making assets, do a deal with SARS, streamline existing operations, and raise new capital for new acquisitions - all under a new brand because the AD brand is forever tarnished. This may sound like a pipedream, but it is all achievable... 

 

I agree wholeheartedly - so, when do we start?


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#4 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:04 PM

As long as the major shareholders are "happy" nothing will change. Sandown will not allow their loan to be on risk. JG is their proxy and has a responsibility to look after their interest. The Board members are just puppets. Business Rescue will be good for most stakeholders but not for certain parties....

Agreed, but maybe it is time to sit Mr. Brown down and have another chat.  Surely he cannot still want to just sit idly by given the circumstances which have continued to deteriorate.  In absence of business rescue, if the disgruntled shareholders could call a special meeting and re-constitute the board with competent, qualified, individuals, there is no doubt scope to offload KC (at a significant discount, but you need to cut off the foot with the gangrene), offload other loss-making assets, do a deal with SARS, streamline existing operations, and raise new capital for new acquisitions - all under a new brand because the AD brand is forever tarnished. This may sound like a pipedream, but it is all achievable... 


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#5 ajax

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:07 PM

As long as the major shareholders are "happy" nothing will change. Sandown will not allow their loan to be on risk. JG is their proxy and has a responsibility to look after their interest. The Board members are just puppets. Business Rescue will be good for most stakeholders but not for certain parties....
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#6 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:15 PM

Reading through their SENS and other public statements it is 'clear' that KC or AD did not make any investments at all. For Elite to grow in a very hostile environment they need cash and lots of it. SARS is still a dangerous threat. KC announced last year in January that they are closing the R100 million investment fund, do they have the money (fund) and if they do how did they apply it to render returns for the investors (fund investors). If ADs new model is the same as before; revenue from commissions and other services AD will never get out of the mess. KC is telling the world that they are good at mentoring other people how to run their business but I don' think they can be successful as entrepreneurs making good returns for all shareholders - no track record and no experiences.   

Business rescue is the only way forward. This will obviously never happens as it will impact on the Board and senior management - if they manage for the best interest of all stakeholders they will do it. Under BR the assets may even be be stripped and a workable plan with competent management be introduced. Why are the bigger shareholders not demanding action and why are they so gullible one will never know.                 

If memory serves, KC couldn't raise a R100m s12J fund - it's not easy to secure R100m based purely on BS! I think though that they may have managed to con some investors out of R50m (maybe to fund the bottom pit of lifestyle 'operating' costs)...


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#7 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 04:10 PM

Loss for the year increased by R4.4 million to R11.3 million

They will relook the Knife Capital business model.... maybe start with the KC DD done by JG!!  :ph34r:

That presupposes, Ajax, that there is (or ever was) a business model to evaluate...


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#8 ajax

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 07:29 AM

Loss for the year increased by R4.4 million to R11.3 million

They will relook the Knife Capital business model.... maybe start with the KC DD done by JG!!  :ph34r:


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#9 Pratlou

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:26 PM

Saw trading statement and it's clear there's no light in near term. Here's to another twelve months of cash burning.
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#10 ponzi

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:39 AM

Reading through their SENS and other public statements it is 'clear' that KC or AD did not make any investments at all. For Elite to grow in a very hostile environment they need cash and lots of it. SARS is still a dangerous threat. KC announced last year in January that they are closing the R100 million investment fund, do they have the money (fund) and if they do how did they apply it to render returns for the investors (fund investors). If ADs new model is the same as before; revenue from commissions and other services AD will never get out of the mess. KC is telling the world that they are good at mentoring other people how to run their business but I don' think they can be successful as entrepreneurs making good returns for all shareholders - no track record and no experiences.   

Business rescue is the only way forward. This will obviously never happens as it will impact on the Board and senior management - if they manage for the best interest of all stakeholders they will do it. Under BR the assets may even be be stripped and a workable plan with competent management be introduced. Why are the bigger shareholders not demanding action and why are they so gullible one will never know.                 


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Hawk


#11 JR7800

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 08:07 AM

NotsoIntelligent Investor - I am not placing my faith in saving the company in KC. However, as I am dealing with high nett worth individuals on a regular basis, they are always looking for ways to expand and grow their wealth. With KC obtaining their SARS section 12J VCC it means that they could possibly attract more investments to be invested in new startups with the potential of great returns in future. VC investment is a long term play.

 

So, I still think that KC can provide future profits. I also noticed a while back that  FlightScope, the global developer of 3D Doppler ball-tracking radar for sports, has bought out its venture capital partner. As I read it, the investment was not made by KC but by HBD. KC only manged the investment. SO I do not think AFDAWN will benefit from the deal. I do agree that there is a lot of work still to be done by KC and AFDAWN to exactly show to the shareholders what investment are actually done by KC and which investments are only managed. This will give a better understanding to shareholders as to what benefit the investment is to AFDAWN shareholders, be it potential large returns via exiting of investment or just a small management fee on the managing of the investment for a 3rd party.

 

So we are back to the old issue of transparency. This is where management lacks big time. I am also invested in Jubilee Platinum. This company have also gone through a rough patch with shareholders left confused and looking for answers. Their management team realised that their shareholder needs to be informed on what is going on in the company and how they are managing their issues and business as it is the shareholder who will need to fund future investments. Look at their sens, brilliant. Although the business is slowly turning around, at least we as shareholders are not left in the dark.

 

I would really like to hear what the so called large investors have to say about their additional losses on the share consolidation. But as I was told during the voting session, it is easier to apparently to grow the share price from 40c to R4 than to get it back form 1c to 10c, both are 10x, I know but for some reason it feels easier to take a punt at 10c than for R4 on a AFDAWN share...

 

So, to sum up. KC will not be the savior but with right investment and transparency can add value in long run.


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#12 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:28 PM

With respect JR7800, on what do place your faith in KC? I was initially fooled by the smoke and mirrors as well, but once you peel back the layers of that onion, you release its rotten to the core...

By release, I mean realise...


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#13 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:27 PM

Wow - so AFDAWN is exactly were it was 3-4 years ago. Have not heard anything from KC lately (although I still believe that they can add value).

 

What about the money from the property sale? Wasted on salaries again or used to pay SARS?

 

I was basically made to look the fool in seeing the value of a share consolidation (previous posts of mine), and at last years AGM and vote on resolution to consolidate I was there and voted against it.

Reasons for consolidation: easier to do deals and no big swings in daily share price (percentage wise).

 

The share is going back to 1c, again. I am for a share consolidation if you have all your issues sorted out and is ready to do new and profitable business, not before then.

 

Again, shareholders lost more money via consolidation and I would like to find one person who can convince me otherwise.

 

Take the Elite and build it into a successful micro-finance player. There are many opportunities out there. Even consider to get government involved (PIC) to use this as vehicle to roll out state loans as reduced rates, even if only to state employees during test it.

 

I am sure AFDAWN management can come up with a business plan to make money, they have the experience.

 

Don't know anymore.....????

With respect JR7800, on what do place your faith in KC? I was initially fooled by the smoke and mirrors as well, but once you peel back the layers of that onion, you release its rotten to the core...


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#14 NotsoIntelligent Investor

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:24 PM

So the BIG Elite deal is formally off the table after it was announced as a done deal and that the buyer had fulfilled their obligations.

SARS negotiations are stil ongoing; really?  

Are we surprised? I'm certainty not. The level of incompetent management that both AD and KC are riddled with is reflected in this latest announcement.  Ajax, I will be in touch!


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#15 ajax

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 01:57 PM

So the BIG Elite deal is formally off the table after it was announced as a done deal and that the buyer had fulfilled their obligations.

SARS negotiations are stil ongoing; really?  


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#16 Ifnotwhynot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:23 PM

Wow - so AFDAWN is exactly were it was 3-4 years ago. Have not heard anything from KC lately (although I still believe that they can add value).

 

What about the money from the property sale? Wasted on salaries again or used to pay SARS?

 

I was basically made to look the fool in seeing the value of a share consolidation (previous posts of mine), and at last years AGM and vote on resolution to consolidate I was there and voted against it.

Reasons for consolidation: easier to do deals and no big swings in daily share price (percentage wise).

 

The share is going back to 1c, again. I am for a share consolidation if you have all your issues sorted out and is ready to do new and profitable business, not before then.

 

Again, shareholders lost more money via consolidation and I would like to find one person who can convince me otherwise.

 

Take the Elite and build it into a successful micro-finance player. There are many opportunities out there. Even consider to get government involved (PIC) to use this as vehicle to roll out state loans as reduced rates, even if only to state employees during test it.

 

I am sure AFDAWN management can come up with a business plan to make money, they have the experience.

 

Don't know anymore.....????

 

I think the ability to make money and the actual will to do so are two different things... It begs the question: what on Earth is going on in this company?


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#17 Ifnotwhynot

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:21 PM

Investigation? he he he he.... They told the media in 2015 'we will announce our latest plans very soon'. After a number of fake Elite deal announcements (SENS) they still manage to string the JSE, Advisors, shareholders and media along. In Jan 2015 JG also stated that it will soon be clear how profitable Grindstone/Knife Capital is....we are still waiting but then again soon can be in another 2 years time. :ph34r: A listed company with no communication to stakeholders at all....Someone should take control of the shell, fire all the crooks and create some value for shareholders! Where are all you entrepreneurs????    

 

Right here! But to be honest, it looks like it may be easier to just sack the board, liquidate the remaining assets and close up shop!


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#18 JR7800

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:56 AM

Wow - so AFDAWN is exactly were it was 3-4 years ago. Have not heard anything from KC lately (although I still believe that they can add value).

 

What about the money from the property sale? Wasted on salaries again or used to pay SARS?

 

I was basically made to look the fool in seeing the value of a share consolidation (previous posts of mine), and at last years AGM and vote on resolution to consolidate I was there and voted against it.

Reasons for consolidation: easier to do deals and no big swings in daily share price (percentage wise).

 

The share is going back to 1c, again. I am for a share consolidation if you have all your issues sorted out and is ready to do new and profitable business, not before then.

 

Again, shareholders lost more money via consolidation and I would like to find one person who can convince me otherwise.

 

Take the Elite and build it into a successful micro-finance player. There are many opportunities out there. Even consider to get government involved (PIC) to use this as vehicle to roll out state loans as reduced rates, even if only to state employees during test it.

 

I am sure AFDAWN management can come up with a business plan to make money, they have the experience.

 

Don't know anymore.....????


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#19 ajax

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 08:17 AM

Investigation? he he he he.... They told the media in 2015 'we will announce our latest plans very soon'. After a number of fake Elite deal announcements (SENS) they still manage to string the JSE, Advisors, shareholders and media along. In Jan 2015 JG also stated that it will soon be clear how profitable Grindstone/Knife Capital is....we are still waiting but then again soon can be in another 2 years time. :ph34r: A listed company with no communication to stakeholders at all....Someone should take control of the shell, fire all the crooks and create some value for shareholders! Where are all you entrepreneurs????    

 

 


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#20 Ifnotwhynot

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 06:52 PM

There's investigation that was done by FM journalist his/her surname is Maake if my memory still remember well. It was about AFDAWN minority shareholders being treated unfairly by the board. It was 2015 when this story was under investigation but it seems the journalist lost interest into it.

 

Thanks for the info! Maybe we should all club together and voice our concerns at the next AGM...

 

I'd be willing to go.


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