129 replies to this topic

[HDB]

Article in the Star today on a former deputy police commissioner arrested by the HAWKS yesterday on taking bribes from a service provider. I hope Pinnacle is not involved

gut feel says its related!! PNC down today too ....

Edited by HDB, 04 June 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[SoleTrader]

Article in the Star today on a former deputy police commissioner arrested by the HAWKS yesterday on taking bribes from a service provider. I hope Pinnacle is not involved

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MHB]

 PIC has had 5% growth in the last few days? I can't understand why...

[M I D A S]

Embezzlers to be executed which indicates serious corrective action against delinquents, what shall happen here? Nothing?

 

http://www.globalpos...zlement-scandal

 

http://english.peopl...228_87611.shtml

 

http://www.aljazeera...2741522258.html

 

http://www.reuters.c...EK4185520070912

 

 

[M e r l i n]

@ Merlin. Your comments are interesting! I don't own any shares in the counter, but aren't we in a situation where the market is driven by fear? Which makes it an investment opportunity?  Lets look at the worst case, Tshivhase guilty of bribery/corruption and guilty of insider trading.  The second issue is not a concern, the FSB will fine him heavily and he will not be able to be a director of a company going forward.

 

The bribery more of a concern.  Say he's guilty, and he acted on instruction, a forensic audit must be made into the affairs of the company.  I am sure that minutes of board meetings will not reveal anything untoward, simply because I don't believe the directors would have been stupid enough to put it into the minutes! So that essentially isolates Tshivhase and he is out on the wilderness (and hopefully in jail) .  Assuming the prosecution can produce additional credible witnesses, the company's directors are screwed, simply because the whole business model will be deemed flawed.  Directors are forced to resign, and a new board gets appointed.

 

Lets get to the courtcase.  The courtdate on the 2nd July is not important, since that will just set the date for the case to be heard, say six months from now.  So the uncertainty lingers for a while. 

 

My gutfeel therefore that a phenomenal investment opportunity is on the horizon, because all of the above should continue to put downward pressure on the stock.  This could take a while to clear out.  Their direct dealing with government is quite small I think, since a lot of it is done via their channel partners.

SoleTrader I certainly believe at some point PNC shall become the flavour yet again, I previously held this stock and made money out of it and am sure I shall again, but @ 11.05 right now it is below it's 12month low and falling consistently, I would take a stab at about 7.80 as a price I would like to buy in again as it shall surely breach the intermediate support of about 9.80 - I hazard a guess at 18months from now for it to achieve that bottom.

[Shortboy]

Well said Merlin

Gotta go with you on this. PNC is tainted whatever the outcome is. If I was a large organisation I wouldn't want to be seen dealing with another organisation whose background isn't 100% clean. @ +- R11 it still looks very expensive to me. 

[SoleTrader]

@ Merlin. Your comments are interesting! I don't own any shares in the counter, but aren't we in a situation where the market is driven by fear? Which makes it an investment opportunity?  Lets look at the worst case, Tshivhase guilty of bribery/corruption and guilty of insider trading.  The second issue is not a concern, the FSB will fine him heavily and he will not be able to be a director of a company going forward.

 

The bribery more of a concern.  Say he's guilty, and he acted on instruction, a forensic audit must be made into the affairs of the company.  I am sure that minutes of board meetings will not reveal anything untoward, simply because I don't believe the directors would have been stupid enough to put it into the minutes! So that essentially isolates Tshivhase and he is out on the wilderness (and hopefully in jail) .  Assuming the prosecution can produce additional credible witnesses, the company's directors are screwed, simply because the whole business model will be deemed flawed.  Directors are forced to resign, and a new board gets appointed.

 

Lets get to the courtcase.  The courtdate on the 2nd July is not important, since that will just set the date for the case to be heard, say six months from now.  So the uncertainty lingers for a while. 

 

My gutfeel therefore that a phenomenal investment opportunity is on the horizon, because all of the above should continue to put downward pressure on the stock.  This could take a while to clear out.  Their direct dealing with government is quite small I think, since a lot of it is done via their channel partners.

[Goliath]

The market is the absolute arbiter of value, what it is trading at is what it is worth - no more no less.

Pinnacle abysmal behavior is a product of delinquent directors (all of them), not only the one that was caught.

The market will pay R5- for a R2- share if it believes it has the potential to achieve that value, similarly it shall only pay R2- for a R5- share if it deems it does not warrant it, which is the situation with Pinnacle, the right thing for the directors to have done was to take corrective action by firing Tshivhase immediately, not only did they not do that, but they collaborated and sold shares knowing full well they price would fall, in contravention to regulations which is subject to a further investigation, so it gets worse and worse - not better.

My view is 11.20 is too much to pay for PNC and expect the price to fall further, so I do not subscribe to the view that the market has over reacted at all, I believe where you find some cockroaches you will find much more by just digging a bit deeper and further till you clean it all out.

I would go short on Pinnacle for mid to long term. 

 

Well said Merlin

[M e r l i n]

The market is the absolute arbiter of value, what it is trading at is what it is worth - no more no less.

Pinnacle abysmal behavior is a product of delinquent directors (all of them), not only the one that was caught.

The market will pay R5- for a R2- share if it believes it has the potential to achieve that value, similarly it shall only pay R2- for a R5- share if it deems it does not warrant it, which is the situation with Pinnacle, the right thing for the directors to have done was to take corrective action by firing Tshivhase immediately, not only did they not do that, but they collaborated and sold shares knowing full well they price would fall, in contravention to regulations which is subject to a further investigation, so it gets worse and worse - not better.

My view is 11.20 is too much to pay for PNC and expect the price to fall further, so I do not subscribe to the view that the market has over reacted at all, I believe where you find some cockroaches you will find much more by just digging a bit deeper and further till you clean it all out.

I would go short on Pinnacle for mid to long term. 

[SoleTrader]

Fellow investors, I am new to this forum but I have been an investor for the past 20 years

 

Pinnacle at current levels is either pricing in a guilty verdict for Mr Tshivhase, with repercussions to the whole businessmodel of Pinnacle, or its has totally overreacted.  Your views please!