15225 replies to this topic

[Everlearning]

Hi Andi,

Thanks for that sober 'level headed' summation, makes sense. Have always enjoyed the analytic views posted by yourself and Captain (who seems to have gone quite)! 

Appreciate Pal !!!

[andi222]

Everlearning, on 12 May 2020 - 12:03 PM, said:

Andi, in the absence of any news or what could be happening at Steinhoff and their various business units, it would be great to have your view and comment!

 

Hi Everlearning, the Corona crisis is nothing good for Steinhoff no one can argue about that. But basically all company's are struggling due to the Corona virus. Its not just Steinhoff.

 

However people on this forum are exaggerating extremely in my opinion.

 

Key positive points to consider regarding Steinhoff as of today and why I'm still invested:

- Steinhoff disposed of most loss making operating units before the whole Corona crisis started. In my view management has performed extremely well in this and has negotiated the maximum value for these units. Examples- Sale of PSG shares at 240 rand per share (PSG today at 150), Sale of KAP holding at 8.15 rand (KAP today at 2 rand), Sale of STAR at 18.15 rand (STAR today at 10), Sale of POCO, Sale of Kika/Leiner, Sale of Bensons for beds/Harveys etc, Sale of Unitrans and more.

- Steinhoff has restructured their debt until end of 2021 so they don't need to repay anything till then. At the moment they are sitting on heaps of cash and all operating units are funding themselves.

- As of today 90% of the shops are open and operating again in all operating units. Government measures will for sure benefit Steinhoff. For example take South Africa, people with children are granted an extra 500 rand a month for I think 6 months. These people are exactly the customers of PEP or Ackermanns etc. So we will in my opinion see a nice rise in sales here in the coming months.

- Global interest rates have dropped by around 2%- This will additionally help Steinhoff for any future refinancing.

- The IPO of Pepco Group- Guys, there is no rush to get this company IPO asap. Steinhoff does not need the money today, they need the money for end of Dec 2021. Pepco Group is still generating massive profits and the longer we can stick to this gem the better. Even in this crisis they are opening new stores and have just expanded into Italy this last week. I think the most reasonable time for the IPO will be around Sep 2021. So we have plenty of time for the Corona virus to dissapear. And trust me guys there will be buyers for this gem.

- MF has been restructured and it has generated profits in Q1 2020. Also Equity was increased to 1.2 billion €.

 

Key points that I consider negative:

- Shops were closed for around a month so we lost around 1/12 in total sales for the year. 

- New Corona measures will lead to increased costs

- No news to the litigation's 

 

Overall I'm still very positive that Steinhoff will navigate through this storm and that we will have retail giant in a few years.

Again this is just my personal view and no recommendation to sell or buy any Steinhoff shares

[Ram85]

Sold everything and bought 

Standard Bank WTI Oil ETN

 

Hope oil will be my saving grace... lost over 70% with SNH... The virus FK'd us all right up the ass...

[Everlearning]

Andi, in the absence of any news or what could be happening at Steinhoff and their various business units, it would be great to have your view and comment!

[Investment novice]

Hi Tom, in all the past few months I had never thought that snh was as vulnerable as they are now. They are burning through cash that was meant for creditors.. And a sure liquadation is on the cards. I unfortunately and as have always been honest in my thoughts will sell all my shares today....

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[Tom]

Steinhoff and all retails, especially "non-essential", and Steinhoff is considered "non-essential", are expected to lose huge amounts of money (8 billions Euros in Western and Central Europe only so far, and could be more than 30 billion Euros worldwide so far for March and April 2020 only, and by the end of the year it's expected to be much more, while the losses for the world economy will be in Trillions by the end of this year) because of the current crisis, also Steinhoff is not expected to find buyers for any of their retail business any time soon, and Steinhoff probably, and as happened in January this year, will not be able to succeed in any IPO anytime soon and probably not even next year mainly because of its weak financial situation and the weak world economical situation, and of course no creditors will be coming forward anytime soon, and the creditors might very well call their money by the end of 2021 as Steinhoff position in nearly all court cases appears to be weak (the big ones against it, or the ones opened by it against others where the claimed money is relatively small anyway (mostly just claw back salaries, because it was actually the investors that lost in the share price collapse and not Steinhoff itself)).

[Milo]

Christo Wiese himself said that they won't get their money back so it is just a waste of time. They might as well go and sue the vlermuis that caused the corona virus maybe they will have better luck.

[Lionelza1]

Machine#curious, on 04 May 2020 - 2:12 PM, said:

so help a novice out here...why is the share price not reacting to this?

I would say market has priced in worst case scenario in terms of litigation...

[LarryK]

Tom I think at the time the argument was that they were trying to defer responsibility and by compensating anyone they admit guilt.

With regards to interest and creditors arrangements, do you believe they had another choice?

Also, I wonder when the people involved will be prosecuted by the government or sued by snh?
Weird that nothing has happened so far right?

Tom, on 04 May 2020 - 1:47 PM, said:

It's sad that Steinhoff agreed to pay 10% interest rate and capitalized to the creditors, while refusing to pay any compensation to the aggrieved and defrauded share holders.

[Dell]

so help a novice out here...why is the share price not reacting to this?

[Tom]

It's sad that Steinhoff agreed to pay 10% interest rate and capitalized to the creditors, while refusing to pay any compensation to the aggrieved and defrauded share holders.

Edited by Tom, 04 May 2020 - 03:51 PM.

[Tom]

Tom, on 04 May 2020 - 1:28 PM, said:

A court-backed order to pay out any successful claimant could trigger Steinhoff’s liquidation to the disadvantage of the creditors.

 

This might also be to the disadvantage of the class actions for small investors.

[Tom]

Not treating all investors equally in court or courts (in one country or worldwide) might not be in the favour of the small investors, that's why they need to start putting more and more pressure on the class actions groups of attorneys to hurry up and push harder in the class actions.

[Tom]

Unlike the SA claimants, the creditors are represented on the Steinhoff board.

[Tom]

A court-backed order to pay out any successful claimant could trigger Steinhoff’s liquidation to the disadvantage of the creditors.

[Tom]

Tom, on 04 May 2020 - 1:19 PM, said:

The parties involved in the cases that Steinhoff attempted to consolidate have lodged claims of over R80 billion.

 

This is for some claim (C.Wiese, T.T., Ferreira ...ect.), which seams to be going stronger than the other claims, especially the class actions, and if they win it, then the small investors with the class action might be badly affected, as no money might be left to claim (I hope not).

[Tom]

The parties involved in the cases that Steinhoff attempted to consolidate have lodged claims of over R80 billion.

[Tom]

Bernard Mostert, former CEO of Tekkie Town and one of the parties battling the consolidation attempt, said he was very pleased with the dismissal decision as well as the cost order, which he described as “quite punitive”.

[Tom]

Steinhoff loses in court bid to consolidate cases

And is left facing a legal bill of R60m.

[Investment novice]

andi222, on 22 Apr 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

MF has released their balance sheet for HJ 2020. As at 30 September 2019 Equity was at 1.12 Billion dollar and now Equity as at 31 March 2020 has gone up to 1.35 billion dollar indicating they have generated a nice profit of 230 Million for the period HJ 2020. Also their cash levels as at 31 March increased to 262 million.

Guys, this is extremely well done by management.

Should see a nice pump to R2... Very quickly.

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