15225 replies to this topic

[Tom]

https://www.business...ed-settlements/

https://www.fin24.co...plunge-20190416

https://ewn.co.za/20...ate-settlements

 

[Lionelza1]

Best way to do it Tom imo.... Am Hoping for that suprise sens soon wrt seifert

[Tom]

"

...

UPDATE ON LITIGATION CLAIMS

Steinhoff International Holdings N.V. (the “Company” or “Steinhoff” and with its
subsidiaries, the “Group”)

The disclosure of accounting irregularities at Steinhoff has sparked a number of
litigation and claims solutions initiatives with respect to the company and other
parties. In parallel with defending the claims which have been brought, in principle
the Company would always consider whether there may be alternative approaches
to concluding claims, such as negotiated settlements, if it is considered to be in the
interests of the Company and its stakeholders. Accordingly, the Company has
requested that representatives of claimants (groups) disclose to the Company, or
procure the disclosure, of relevant information on i.a. the identity of claimants and the
size of their shareholdings (or former shareholdings), for those claimants which they
contractually represent. The Company wishes to emphasise that the fact that such
requests have been made does not mean that negotiated settlements will eventually
be agreed or are imminent.

Shareholders and other investors in the Company are advised to exercise caution
when dealing in the securities of the Group.

...

"

 

I think it would be better for Steinhoff to reach a settlement with the aggrieved shareholders and compensate them for the money lost, than to follow the court route where it will cost Steinhoff a lot of money to pay for their lawyers, and the result might very well be that the courts sequestrate Steinhoff.

Edited by Tom, 16 April 2019 - 09:44 AM.

[Bubble]

More at the link...

 

https://jsecharts.bl...inhoff-snh.html

 

 

 

imo advenit

 

Poetic : what does than mean without speaking in metaphors.

 

"Advenit" - Am I correct his means danger coming

 

This is the same guys that posted the whole "Elliot wave theory" and SNH going to shoot up, but that never happened either.

Edited by Bubble, 16 April 2019 - 08:50 AM.

[Snippit]

More at the link...

 

https://jsecharts.bl...inhoff-snh.html

 

 

 

imo advenit

[DayTraderDad]

This is the perfect Pyramid scheme / Ponzi scheme on operation if you understand how that works.
A quick summary is that a PS will pay a return to shareholders in a form of a divi or interest withstanding it has no free cash flow or profits. This PS has been doing it for years. Even in the crash of 2007 if you go and see , one of the few companies to maintain dividends. I was actually supriised then too.. but never took the bait!

Yes I understand what you mean as a PS but for me is rather poor governance by directors and chairman and of interest the list of funds on the article no one complained either.
Now that the trough is empty everybody wants the money back!!

[Polly]

the highlight for me when it comes to Management/Director and Chairperson discipline:

"Steinhoff reported in its 31 March 2017 unaudited half yearly results that it’s earning per share (EPS) had in fact
fallen by 3%. Yet despite these disappointing profits, Steinhoff increased its dividends per share by a massive 50% to
EUR 15 cents a share from EUR 10 cents previously. Did anyone really believe future earnings would be able to catch up?
Its clear, management was stripping the company of cash at the worst possible time: just as Steinhoff going on a spending
spree for overpriced investments and debt was rising.


After all this then still to want the money back???? How's it possible director allowed this to happen?? Increase dividend
by 50% in a falling earning??
Normally dividends comes from free cash flow so if one has a falling profit it would automatically lead to reduced dividend???


For people to understand what I am talking about:
"Dividends are paid from a company's cash flow. Free cash flow (FCF) tells investors the actual amount of cash a company
has left from its operations to pay for dividends, among other things, after paying for other items such as salaries,
research and development and marketing"

 

This is the perfect Pyramid scheme / Ponzi scheme on operation if you understand how that works.

A quick summary is that a PS will pay a return to shareholders in a form of a divi or interest withstanding it has no free cash flow or profits. This PS has been doing it for years. Even in the crash of 2007 if you go and see , one of the few companies to maintain dividends. I was actually supriised then too.. but never took the bait!

[Polly]

Lionel no point going onto lengthy discussions about the same thing over and over.

My aim is to put out there what I find on my research for people read and be informed.

I just find SA media keep on focusing on the same old topic the MJ, Tekkie Town, CW and Steinhoff pension money blah blah yet there is much more information available that is simply ignored.

I have said many times I have absolutely no interest in what people do with SNH share.

Some point for you to figure out!!

1- Get me any report/article from SA Media that explaining the situation going on in Conforama as the French news media did? Are you aware there has been a number of strikes at Conforama stores since February?

2 – Do you know what is a French Conciliation Procedure? Follow this article it explains very well.
https://eurorestruct...tion-procedure/
You will find they did the same thing in Mattress Firm showing the balance sheet with a massive negative equity. Hence the need for the Balance Sheet!!!!!

3 – Show me a article from SA media about Greenlit Brands that are similar to the Australian media which there are articles explaining that Greenlit Brands are looking at selling part of the business.

4 – Do you have any idea who is Helen Lee Bouygues the new Chairwomen of Conforama?
Follow this link has good information: https://helenleebouygues.com/

“ Helen Lee Bouygues is one of the most successful women in business transformation.”

5 -Do you have any idea who is Cedric Dugardin the new CEO of Conforama?

Follow the link: http://www.zalis.fr/...edric-dugardin/

“In nearly 25 years of experience, Cédric Dugardin has successfully led many projects, focusing mainly on strategy, finance and management. The many projects he has undertaken cover a large number of issues related to business transformation, change management, business turnaround and structured finance. Cédric Dugardin notably directed the recovery of the Quick group by restoring its profitability, thus favoring its sale.

Cédric has a great sense of interpersonal skills and joins ZALIS to bring his experience as a high-level manager and expert in the management of complex situations.”

6 – Tell me which SA media article is talking about the possibility of Mattress Firm coming together again with Tempur Sealy after the CEO resigned?

7 - I am still waiting on your explanation that the restructuring is still far from complete.

You see what I was trying to say to Tom a turnaround is not done in 5 minutes and normally its done with Management that have that expertise exactly what SNH Management putting in place.

Anyway timer for green beer!!!!

 

Quality post Dad...not being sarcastic but telling if what you say makes sense and plays , this share can recover..

 

However one has to take the cost of reconstructing into account. Can be massive sometimes 50 to 100% of your equity. and employing more pros doesn't help the costs which was mmmm.....well you know per day like +50m a year ago ( thats pro costs and not reconstruction costs).

Still a very tough ask if you ask me but some hope maybe after 3 years.

 

Still say management not playing ball with shareholders. Rather be open and let shareholders know where they stand..

[Tom]

More of Steinhoff saga:

 

https://www.business...nhanced-rights/

https://af.reuters.c...KCN1RR0W6-OZABS

 

"

...

Steinhoff on Monday announced key terms for its French unit Conforama’s plan to raise €316m (R5bn) to shore up its finances after sales fell and costs rose.

Steinhoff said the financing included the issue of warrants in an amount equal to 49.9% of Conforama’s shares to the providers of cash,

giving the financiers enhanced governance rights and allowing them to appoint two independent directors to Conforama’s board.

The financing also includes call protections — a security measure which imposes penalties if a loan is repaid earlier than its maturity date.

...

"

Edited by Tom, 15 April 2019 - 01:15 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Steinhoff International Holdings N.V. : UPDATE ON CONFORAMA REFINANCING

https://www.dgap.de/...?newsID=1141921

[DayTraderDad]

Sorry Captain misunderstood the Buffet wisdom and after researching find to be in agreement he is correct.

I believe however that for any turn around to be successful starts with the correct management i.e. a turnaround management
style.

Below a interesting link from Mackinsey which gives a good perspective of a turnaround process for people to have a good
understanding what has to happen.

https://www.mckinsey...-and-what-to-do

Now for the shareholder claims and the bolt of the blue experience found a very interesting article and I wonder
how it will play out in court if SNH lawyers use it for defence:

https://insight.mytr...inhoff-scandal/

the highlight for me when it comes to Management/Director and Chairperson discipline:

"Steinhoff reported in its 31 March 2017 unaudited half yearly results that it’s earning per share (EPS) had in fact
fallen by 3%. Yet despite these disappointing profits, Steinhoff increased its dividends per share by a massive 50% to
EUR 15 cents a share from EUR 10 cents previously. Did anyone really believe future earnings would be able to catch up?
Its clear, management was stripping the company of cash at the worst possible time: just as Steinhoff going on a spending
spree for overpriced investments and debt was rising.


After all this then still to want the money back???? How's it possible director allowed this to happen?? Increase dividend
by 50% in a falling earning??
Normally dividends comes from free cash flow so if one has a falling profit it would automatically lead to reduced dividend???


For people to understand what I am talking about:
"Dividends are paid from a company's cash flow. Free cash flow (FCF) tells investors the actual amount of cash a company
has left from its operations to pay for dividends, among other things, after paying for other items such as salaries,
research and development and marketing"

[DayTraderDad]

Thanks Captain that's exactly my thoughts (like a big family one kid robs a bank then the whole family are bank robbers) it is amazing that people cannot see that SNH Management are busy putting
a strong competent team together.

The other misinformation people are saying debt has increased yet no one know what was the previous debt because all
accounts are consolidated and I cannot find a single Conforama balance sheet to establish what was the previous debt.

Pepkor Europe is also restructuring its debt people will also now say they making big losses.

Yes everyone knows SNH is going though the process of finalising the restructure and has the process unfolds people get
confused. Not sure what they expecting how the restructure will look like. Maybe a big lack of understanding what is debt restructure becasuse the deficulty understanding the reason SNH is in this
predictament is due to long term debt becoming current debt.

A good article explaining well:

Investors fly to Conforama's rescue

Link: http://www.lefigaro....forama-20190411

Highlights:

"For unions, it's first of all a relief. "The worst seems to be ruled out for the coming months," says Jacques Mossé-Biaggini,
FO central union representative of Conforama France. In early March, the corridors of the company, a subsidiary of
the South African group Steinhoff, rustled with a project of 1,500 to 2,000 job cuts, the management presented a plan
"substantial" refinancing, 316 millions of euros. "The Meaux Commercial Court has approved a conciliation agreement
between Conforama and its creditors, as part of a conciliation process under French law that provided the framework
for the refinancing negotiations that will allow Conforama to proceed with financial restructuring, "said the Steinhoff
Group."

"Goal in ambush
The second part of the refinancing plan is of greater concern to employee representatives. It plans to raise 116 million
euros in the first quarter of 2020, with a view to restructuring the deficit stores. "The definition is fuzzy. We do not
know how many and which stores are concerned, "worries Jacques Mossé-Biaggini."

[Captainfrom82]

Lionel no point going onto lengthy discussions about the same thing over and over.

My aim is to put out there what I find on my research for people read and be informed.

I just find SA media keep on focusing on the same old topic the MJ, Tekkie Town, CW and Steinhoff pension money blah blah yet there is much more information available that is simply ignored.

I have said many times I have absolutely no interest in what people do with SNH share.

Some point for you to figure out!!

1- Get me any report/article from SA Media that explaining the situation going on in Conforama as the French news media did? Are you aware there has been a number of strikes at Conforama stores since February?

2 – Do you know what is a French Conciliation Procedure? Follow this article it explains very well.
https://eurorestruct...tion-procedure/
You will find they did the same thing in Mattress Firm showing the balance sheet with a massive negative equity. Hence the need for the Balance Sheet!!!!!

3 – Show me a article from SA media about Greenlit Brands that are similar to the Australian media which there are articles explaining that Greenlit Brands are looking at selling part of the business.

4 – Do you have any idea who is Helen Lee Bouygues the new Chairwomen of Conforama?
Follow this link has good information: https://helenleebouygues.com/

“ Helen Lee Bouygues is one of the most successful women in business transformation.”

5 -Do you have any idea who is Cedric Dugardin the new CEO of Conforama?

Follow the link: http://www.zalis.fr/...edric-dugardin/

“In nearly 25 years of experience, Cédric Dugardin has successfully led many projects, focusing mainly on strategy, finance and management. The many projects he has undertaken cover a large number of issues related to business transformation, change management, business turnaround and structured finance. Cédric Dugardin notably directed the recovery of the Quick group by restoring its profitability, thus favoring its sale.

Cédric has a great sense of interpersonal skills and joins ZALIS to bring his experience as a high-level manager and expert in the management of complex situations.”

6 – Tell me which SA media article is talking about the possibility of Mattress Firm coming together again with Tempur Sealy after the CEO resigned?

7 - I am still waiting on your explanation that the restructuring is still far from complete.

You see what I was trying to say to Tom a turnaround is not done in 5 minutes and normally its done with Management that have that expertise exactly what SNH Management putting in place.

Anyway timer for green beer!!!!

 

Thanks for the heads up DTD.  Nice information.  I sincerely hope that you are correct on the forward looking outlook. 

 

In this regard, please consider the wisdom of a real Guru who says, that "when a business with a bad reputation, meets a management with a good reputation, it is very likely that the reputation of the business remains intact" {Warren Buffett}.

 

I have a further point regarding the negative equity, which Tom previously commented on by highlighting the E1.72b debt.

 

Tom left out an important detail to his note.  Of the total debt, only E106.2m or 6.2% is actually external debt.  In other words, over 93% of the Conforama debt (E1.6b) is actually owed to Steinhoff SEAG.

 

SEAG in turn signed up a LUA approved by 93% of the external creditors.

 

In other words, the possibility that Conforama defaults and is liquidated or forced into bankruptcy until 2021, is extremely small.

 

Just thought that I should place that matter into context.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[DayTraderDad]

Lionel no point going onto lengthy discussions about the same thing over and over.

My aim is to put out there what I find on my research for people read and be informed.

I just find SA media keep on focusing on the same old topic the MJ, Tekkie Town, CW and Steinhoff pension money blah blah yet there is much more information available that is simply ignored.

I have said many times I have absolutely no interest in what people do with SNH share.

Some point for you to figure out!!

1- Get me any report/article from SA Media that explaining the situation going on in Conforama as the French news media did? Are you aware there has been a number of strikes at Conforama stores since February?

2 – Do you know what is a French Conciliation Procedure? Follow this article it explains very well.
https://eurorestruct...tion-procedure/
You will find they did the same thing in Mattress Firm showing the balance sheet with a massive negative equity. Hence the need for the Balance Sheet!!!!!

3 – Show me a article from SA media about Greenlit Brands that are similar to the Australian media which there are articles explaining that Greenlit Brands are looking at selling part of the business.

4 – Do you have any idea who is Helen Lee Bouygues the new Chairwomen of Conforama?
Follow this link has good information: https://helenleebouygues.com/

“ Helen Lee Bouygues is one of the most successful women in business transformation.”

5 -Do you have any idea who is Cedric Dugardin the new CEO of Conforama?

Follow the link: http://www.zalis.fr/...edric-dugardin/

“In nearly 25 years of experience, Cédric Dugardin has successfully led many projects, focusing mainly on strategy, finance and management. The many projects he has undertaken cover a large number of issues related to business transformation, change management, business turnaround and structured finance. Cédric Dugardin notably directed the recovery of the Quick group by restoring its profitability, thus favoring its sale.

Cédric has a great sense of interpersonal skills and joins ZALIS to bring his experience as a high-level manager and expert in the management of complex situations.”

6 – Tell me which SA media article is talking about the possibility of Mattress Firm coming together again with Tempur Sealy after the CEO resigned?

7 - I am still waiting on your explanation that the restructuring is still far from complete.

You see what I was trying to say to Tom a turnaround is not done in 5 minutes and normally its done with Management that have that expertise exactly what SNH Management putting in place.

Anyway timer for green beer!!!!

[Lionelza1]

The sad part is the media in SA have blinkers and don't follow the big picture they should have picked up on the French news this has been going on since February
but all we hear is MJ and the Steinhoff heist!

 

I think you are the one with blinkers on, kindly explain what the big picture is? you seem pretty sure of the turn around already, as for myself, i will pay close attention to quartely updates which will provide me with the EVIDENCE (that u always ask for) on whether they turning or sinking.

 

I also believe they needed to bring out the balance sheet showing the bankrupt position so they can restructure the business without lots of strikes and noise.

 

Really my friend? i do not understand your logic behind this, did they have a choice in bringing out the B.S?...and B.S as in balnce sheet not bullsh!t ......and in my opinion that balance sheet is bullshit!!

 

I cannot see any evidence posted in the articles the only thing we know is what is in the presentation issued by SNH.

 

 

I fail to understand what evidence you are looking for in articles?

 

Steinhoff has given you the evidence in black and white yet you are looking for what? from the media?

 

Tom you are spot on my friend and you have every reason to be concerned.........imo i do not see this as mission impossible, but do view it as a going concern.

[Lionelza1]

As bad as the Balance sheet look on conforama , Mr Market did not punish share price...

It is an established business so yes DTD tools r in place, they have a plan to turn it around... And most important they have the financing?

Now for management to achieve their goals.... Quarterly updates will give insight

Pg8, "especially the loss of credit insurance resulting in lack of product availability"... Awesome management need to turn that around hey

[DayTraderDad]

I also believe they needed to bring out the balance sheet showing the bankrupt position so they can restructure the business without lots of strikes and noise.

The sad part is the media in SA have blinkers and don't follow the big picture they should have picked up on the French news this has been going on since February
but all we hear is MJ and the Steinhoff heist!

[DayTraderDad]

I also believe they needed to bring out the balance sheet showing the bankrupt position so they can restructure the business without lots of strikes and noise.

[DayTraderDad]

Hi Captain,

Don’t get me wrong I am not living under any illusion about the amount of debt which for me all along had a suspicion that all the funny games MJ was playing was to cover the losses in Conforama, Kika and MF.

I cannot see any evidence posted in the articles the only thing we know is what is in the presentation issued by SNH.

I am also aware there has been talks between Unions, creditor, Management of Conforama and also with some government authorities and is expected that Conforama is to be sold or restructured where they want to close 40 shops and layoff 2500 jobs see article below:

https://bfmbusiness....ma-1640513.html

Ther article is French but if you open on Google Chrome it translates the page.

“They are now attacking Conforama. The creditors' representative, Helen Lee-Bouygues, went to the head office last fall and even visited the Colombes site. Conscious of its difficulties, the Ministry of the Economy follows the file closely through the Interministerial Committee for Industrial Restructuring (Ciri), proof that the file is heavy. According to our information, representatives of the "Ciri" traveled to London a few weeks ago to meet the creditors of Steinhoff and negotiate the terms of the restructuring of Conforama. The South African group would provide up to 2,500 job cuts and about forty shop closures. French unions estimate that "between 1,500 and 2,000 jobs would be threatened, much of which in France, for twenty stores sold or closed in France, "according to a representative of employees. Conforama has 14,000 employees in Europe, including 9,000 in France.

An essential restructuring, the size of which will depend on the buyer. According to several sources, several competitors of Conforama were approached last autumn. With mixed success. Only his great rival Goal would be interested and would be a favorite. Employees fear this option which would lead to a massive restructuring as the two brands are in frontal competition. The Autorité de la concurrence also imposes numerous store resales.”

What is interesting on the article Helen Lee-Bouygues is mentioned as a Creditor representative and now is becoming the Chairwomen.

Not so long ago the balance sheet of MF was in the similar position bankcrupt and it got sorted so I am quite sure the same will happen in Conforama.

The way forward is much less stores and much more e-commerce which JK posted a very interesting link yesterday.

The reason why the share price fell I am sure it was already taking this into account my experience by the time SNH brings news we the small investors are the only ones that dont know .

I was trying to tell TOM that this requires time and the most important is to get the restructure in place so the business can stabilise.

Anyway these are my thoughts.

[Captainfrom82]

Great finally you got to understand the real damage MJ did well done!!!

 

Hi DTD,

 

I think that in many respects regarding Conforama, Tom is correct.  No use blaming the postman when the message is bad news.  His critique of Conforama is on the money (besides which it is one of the very few times, that he has backed up his statements with facts).

 

In many respects, the people who are now speculating on the turnaround, are behaving similarly to what we have previously accused Tom of - speaking without evidence.  I mean, I thought that Steinhoff's presentation was probably over-rosy : -

1. How do we know for a FACT that the Conforama turnaround would materialise as planned in terms of finances (both the improvement in the Balance Sheet as well as the Income Statement.

2. We would be again speculating if we think that the timelines would be adhered to.

 

It worries me that Steinhoff didn't report sooner just how dire the situation actually was. 

 

Nodale's resignation as well is a concern.  He was Deputy CEO of the Steinhoff International Group, and yet he couldn't turn his own company (Conforama) around.

 

I need to digest the news, and run the numbers.  But the E1.7b debt is very troubling. 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Ps.  The good news is that all this negativity has already been included in the financials.  So its not like its adding to the decline in the quality.