15225 replies to this topic

[CasualTrader]

Ah ok, not seeing any jumps locally.

[DayTraderDad]

Where are you seeing a jump?

https://www.tradegat...in=NL0011375019

[CasualTrader]

Where are you seeing a jump?

[DayTraderDad]

Any one with news? Sudden jump there must be some news coming out soon!!

[Africa1962]

Wonder what impact this looting in JHb and Durban will have on Pepkor. Sad but it's going to impact share price again big time

https://www.news24.c...t-rand-20210712

[Tiekkie]

Wonder what impact this looting in JHb and Durban will have on Pepkor. Sad but it's going to impact share price again big time

[Sleepwa123]

I'm sure all parties are working hard to find a solution. The settlement is in everyone's best interest. Obviously people will fight to the end for more.

Right now enjoy the quiet as it creates space for the brains behind the scenes to figure it all out and hopefully make it work.

I sincerely hope the date doesn't shift past September. This waiting game is worth it but it's taking its toll on everyone.

[Trader001]

All little quiet today, maybe everyone's just catching a breather after last weeks activities.

Hope that this week sees some positive feedback from Management, we need a confidence booster!

Definitely, I agree. They can't sit on their hands waiting for court judgements.  

[Everlearning]

All little quiet today, maybe everyone's just catching a breather after last weeks activities.

Hope that this week sees some positive feedback from Management, we need a confidence booster!

[DayTraderDad]

Interesting article. use Google to translate:

 

https://www.wallstre...revo-verprellen

 

And so the pressure on Steinhoff to find an agreement with the Hamiltons and Trevo Capital is immense. But there is also a lot at stake for the Hamiltons and Trevo Capital: Without an agreement, the largest chunk of debt should be left over as part of a liquidation of Steinhoff Holding International NV. And the “other creditors” would first have to prove their claims and have them assessed in the context of the bankruptcy - very lengthy and fraught with many uncertainties.

 

Some suggests that an agreement should be in the interests of all parties involved. Poker game. And the frightening thing about it: Even if Steinhoff overcomes this hurdle and ultimately both creditors' meetings one of whatever kind - reworked? - Agree to the comparison, it is always unclear whether there should still be enough mass afterwards to solve the overindebtedness problem and the excessive interest costs. Therefore: Steinhoff does not have a lot of leeway in the negotiations with Trevo Capital and the Hamiltons.

[DayTraderDad]

Very interesting news: ( The dominos starting to fall!!!)

 

https://www.accounta...en-doorgehaald/

 

 

The former Deloitte accountant who checked the figures of the furniture group Steinhoff, which became involved in an accounting scandal, has not done his job properly, the Accountants Chamber ruled. An annoying statement for Deloitte, which came under considerable fire due to the Steinhoff case.The disciplinary case was brought by the AFM and the RA, which gave an unqualified statement to the figures shortly before the scandal, now has a cancellation of three months.

[DayTraderDad]

The real reason 

 

if all of this is remotely true...then what in the name of Moses can they gain from protracting this out.... surely you must settle for the bits and pieces now allowing SNH to use the time to get the price back to normal  and then gain some more when your shares reach greater heights.....or we just don't understand....or maybe it just a cock fight to see who has the bigger ****?

For me is this:

 

Hamilton get 15% of the claim (So reported in the press) so the claim is R14.5 bil or Eur 850 mil so 15% is Eur 127 mil (for doing virtually nothing just lots of litigation and feeling sorry for share holders that bought shares in open market) but if they fail and have to settle for 6% of the R14.5 bil they will only get Eur 7.6 mil. So this for me is enough reason to cause all the problems.

 

One cannot blame Hamilton's they a very smart and good for them if the stupid shareholders are willing to make them rich why not, for me its a smart move!!

 

So my question is will the shareholders really benefit? To answer that lets do a small calculation.

 

Lets assume Hamilton's represent 20% of the shareholders that is about 840 mil shares. If the claim is granted at 100% the full R14.5 bil then Hamilton gets R2.2 bil and share holders get R12.3 bil or R14.67 per share. This however will be very difficult to get and virtually impossible.

 

So lets look at what they can get now from the settlement: 

 

The get 6% of the claim so total claim is R870 mil and Hamilton gets R130.5 mil shareholders get R739.5 mil or R 0.88.

 

With the claims settle the share price will jump to R14 or R16 and guess what with a possibility to get to the R80 in 10 years time.

 

So for me is a no brainier the only party that stands to gain lots for continuous fighting is Hamilton's.

 

So we have SCOPA always complaining about SNH ripping the government pension funds and yes indeed there was a serious devaluation  but if PIC played ball they would recover all the money because I am quite sure the 346 mil shares the PIC own the average price must be on the R30 because they been buying over the years.

 

So at today's prices the PIC holding is with 346 mil x R1.70 = R588 mil but if liquidation arrives it will be ZERO guarantied by Polly and Lionel.

 

However by accepting the GS and let the share recover to the R14 they would have R4.8 bil. So I don't know what is the PIC Ceo thinking about but he certainly should not complain of losses. 

 

Anyway this is my thoughts nearly time for green beer!!!!

[Africa1962]

True DTD, on your calc, excluding USA and Aus businesses, Min NAV Euro 5.35 or R89,93 per share.

Fact is that Pepco has already grown by more than 20% since listing

 

Great to do these calcs and hope our 'dreams' come true but somewhere in all this the facts speak for themselves so we can dream !!!

if all of this is remotely true...then what in the name of Moses can they gain from protracting this out.... surely you must settle for the bits and pieces now allowing SNH to use the time to get the price back to normal  and then gain some more when your shares reach greater heights.....or we just don't understand....or maybe it just a cock fight to see who has the bigger ****?

[Everlearning]

It is deficult to predict the share price but assuming that SNH paid double for the debt i.e. Eur 20 bil the value left over would be Eur 22.5 or a NAV at current shares issued of 4.2 bil Eur 5.35 per share. So I would imagine the share price to be minimum the NAV of R5.35 per share.

 

I doubt Pepkor will be growing at 18% but PEPCO surely can.

 

True DTD, on your calc, excluding USA and Aus businesses, Min NAV Euro 5.35 or R89,93 per share.

Fact is that Pepco has already grown by more than 20% since listing

 

Great to do these calcs and hope our 'dreams' come true but somewhere in all this the facts speak for themselves so we can dream !!!

[CasualTrader]

That is exactly why he should not have been asked for his opinion in the first place. Agendas indeed

 

[DayTraderDad]

What would this equate to the value for snh shares

It is deficult to predict the share price but assuming that SNH paid double for the debt i.e. Eur 20 bil the value left over would be Eur 22.5 or a NAV at current shares issued of 4.2 bil Eur 5.35 per share. So I would imagine the share price to be minimum the NAV of R5.35 per share.

 

I doubt Pepkor will be growing at 18% but PEPCO surely can.

[DayTraderDad]

I really wish that we had enough retail investors to stick it to Mr Verster

A person that is shorting SNH why would he be saying anything positive? I have learnt to take what the specialists say with a pinch of salt they always serving their own agendas!!!

[Olymphia]

Indeed another outstanding sentimental article.

My favourite: (Another expert hooting from the hip to cause hippe.)

Verster estimates that Steinhoff’s value – largely dependent on its Pepkor and Pepco operations – would have to appreciate by around 18% a year over the next 10 years if Steinhoff ordinary shares were to have any value after paying the crippling CVA burden.

So lets do a little calculation on the valuation of PEPCO and Perkor.( We leave the other assets at ZERO value)
Company SNH holding 09/07/21 2023 2023 2024 2025 2026 2026 2026 2026 2026 2026 PEPCO 453,675,000 €11.44 €13.50 €15.94 €18.80 €22.19 €26.18 €30.89 €36.46 €43.02 €50.76 €59.90 PEPKOR 2,385,500,000 €1.23 €1.45 €1.71 €2.02 €2.38 €2.81 €3.32 €3.92 €4.62 €5.46 €6.44 PEPCO Value €5,192 €6,127 €7,229 €8,531 €10,066 €11,878 €14,016 €16,539 €19,516 €23,029 €27,174 Pepkor Value €2,934 €3,462 €4,086 €4,821 €5,689 €6,713 €7,921 €9,347 €11,029 €13,014 €15,357 Total Value €8,126 €9,589 €11,315 €13,352 €15,755 €18,591 €21,937 €25,886 €30,545 €36,043 €42,531


So at the required growth of 18% as Mr Verster suggested the valuation would be Eur 42.5 bil to pay off Eur 9.6 bil

Rest my case!!! Just glad I don't need these experts to look after my money!!!

What would this equate to the value for snh shares

[Bubble]

I really wish that we had enough retail investors to stick it to Mr Verster

 

We need the WSB crew!

[Tiekkie]

Indeed another outstanding sentimental article.

My favourite: (Another expert hooting from the hip to cause hippe.)

Verster estimates that Steinhoff’s value – largely dependent on its Pepkor and Pepco operations – would have to appreciate by around 18% a year over the next 10 years if Steinhoff ordinary shares were to have any value after paying the crippling CVA burden.

So lets do a little calculation on the valuation of PEPCO and Perkor.( We leave the other assets at ZERO value)
Company SNH holding 09/07/21 2023 2023 2024 2025 2026 2026 2026 2026 2026 2026 PEPCO 453,675,000 €11.44 €13.50 €15.94 €18.80 €22.19 €26.18 €30.89 €36.46 €43.02 €50.76 €59.90 PEPKOR 2,385,500,000 €1.23 €1.45 €1.71 €2.02 €2.38 €2.81 €3.32 €3.92 €4.62 €5.46 €6.44 PEPCO Value €5,192 €6,127 €7,229 €8,531 €10,066 €11,878 €14,016 €16,539 €19,516 €23,029 €27,174 Pepkor Value €2,934 €3,462 €4,086 €4,821 €5,689 €6,713 €7,921 €9,347 €11,029 €13,014 €15,357 Total Value €8,126 €9,589 €11,315 €13,352 €15,755 €18,591 €21,937 €25,886 €30,545 €36,043 €42,531


So at the required growth of 18% as Mr Verster suggested the valuation would be Eur 42.5 bil to pay off Eur 9.6 bil

Rest my case!!! Just glad I don't need these experts to look after my money!!!

I really wish that we had enough retail investors to stick it to Mr Verster