15225 replies to this topic

[Everlearning]

Spot on DTD, that is exactly the outcome of the Judgement. It  is very clear that the reporting is extremely selective and sticking with the narrative of sensational reporting!

 

Thanks for spelling this out for us, well articulated !!!

[sommerso]

50c...cough

 

If we get less than R1 ... I'll fill up my trucks... .and their trucks ...and trucks by the truck loads  

[Lionelza1]

To my fellow newbies, do not get excited when members boast of the truck loads of shares they're buying (probably truck loads of dust haha)

Be patient, she's going down for a while, till the next set of news, September, anticipate a run up 2 weeks before time. (as per the 2yr trend now)

50c...cough

[DayTraderDad]

This the issue I have everyone is talking about fatal blow, bad ruling big problems yet no one is reading the judgement properly:

 

So I will put it down in small pieces:

===============================

Conclusion

[137] For all these reasons I consider that in concluding the CPU, SIHPL gave

financial assistance to Lux Finco 1 in breach of the provisions of sec 45 of the Act. In the circumstances, by virtue of sec 45(6) of the Act, the resolution of SIHPL’s board authorising the conclusion of SIHPL CPU is void as is the CPU itself and the

applicants are entitled to a declaration to this effect.

 

So for me from above the judge is clearly saying the guarantee given to Lux Finco 1 is void. So this for me means the creditors have lost the guarantee so now SNH needs to discuss with the creditor of Lux Finco 1 how this will be bridged. So for me there is only two ways:

 

1 - Issue a new guarantee via other entity. For example place Eur465 mil in a special trust account until the GS is completed.

2 - (For me the cleanest and most probably) Payout the bonds SNH has the cash available.

 

No where on the judgement did the judge say the CVA is cancelled or the GS is stopped.

 

Interdictory relief

[138] The applicants sought an interdict restraining SIHPL from making any payment

pursuant to the SIHPL Guarantee, the SIHPL CPU or the compromise proposed by

SIHPL in terms of sec 155 of the Companies Act and from providing any security in

respect thereof. In terms of this judgment the SIHPL Guarantee stands and clearly

no interdictory relief in relation to it can be granted. As far as the balance of the

interdictory relief is concerned, the applicants made out no case that any payments

pursuant to the SIHPL CPU were imminent. Insofar as any payments made based

on the CPU might conceivably follow upon the acceptance of the sec 155 proposal,

not only might that proposal be revisited following this judgment, but the sec 155

process has some way to go before it can be sanctioned by a Court. Before that

stage is reached the applicants will have adequate opportunity to voice their

opposition to any such proposal or interdict any prior payments which they regard as

unlawful. Accordingly, the applicants have failed to make out any case for

interdictory relief.

 

The judge is very clear he is referring to payments that SIHPL may have to make due to the guarantee and he is in no way saying Lux Finco 1 cannot settle the bonds!!

 

Further he said the SEC 155 continues and then the applicants can fight this again but if SIHPL no longer has any guarantee responsibility what are they going to fight about!!

 

Then the best of all which the media is failing to mention:

 

Accordingly, the applicants have failed to make out any case for

interdictory relief.

 

So for me the applicants got a sweet but lost out on the big meal!!!!

 

Rest my case!!! Hahaha

 

Looking forward for comments!!!

[Bubble]

Surely DTD's theory is sound where they can just pay the guarantee? If Hamilton gets a percent of what they get back for their clients, if there is no settlement then everyone loses? If one is in the game of making money I cant see why this would even be a scenario.

 

Lets say they now overturn the decision made in 2019 and follow DTD plan - may they settle the 465mil with proceeds that was not available at the time of making that decision. Will it be allowed, what does the Act say?

 

Or, are they forced to re-negotiate...which will end in tears for all, except the banks.

[Lionelza1]

To my fellow newbies, do not get excited when members boast of the truck loads of shares they're buying (probably truck loads of dust haha)

Be patient, she's going down for a while, till the next set of news, September, anticipate a run up 2 weeks before time. (as per the 2yr trend now)

[DeltaHedge]

I have to admit the news on Friday was not good at all and that was the first time Steinhoff did not have a plan or did not know what the exact consequences are.

For now I'm still holding a small position but will watch this from the side line until more news are released.

If the CPU is void as declared by the judge Steinhoff is in deep . . . .



Sent from my SM-G973F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

Surely DTD's theory is sound where they can just pay the guarantee? If Hamilton gets a percent of what they get back for their clients, if there is no settlement then everyone loses? If one is in the game of making money I cant see why this would even be a scenario.

[andi222]

I have to admit the news on Friday was not good at all and that was the first time Steinhoff did not have a plan or did not know what the exact consequences are.

For now I'm still holding a small position but will watch this from the side line until more news are released.

If the CPU is void as declared by the judge Steinhoff is in deep . . . .



Sent from my SM-G973F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Squideye]

Future training buddies for Markus at Pollsmoor gym...?   

 

Zoë Wort, a junior director and corporate law attorney at Barnard Incorporated Attorneys, said the ruling was in favour of the applicants, Trevo Capital and others.

 

Wort said Steinhoff International Holdings gave financial assistance in breach of the provisions of section 45 (loans and other financial assistance to directors) of the Companies Act, which was more bad press for Steinhoff.

 

“From a Companies Act perspective, the implications of the board resolution being declared void in terms of section 45(6) is that in terms of section 45(7) of the Companies Act, a director of the company can be held liable to the extent that and if the director – (a) was present at the meeting when the board approved the resolution or agreement, or participated in the making of such a decision; and (b.) failed to vote against the resolution or agreement, despite knowing that the provision of financial assistance was inconsistent with this section or a prohibition, condition or requirement in the company’s memorandum of incorporation,” Wort said.

 

https://www.iol.co.z...2d-bff063f7e874

Edited by Squideye, 06 July 2021 - 10:16 AM.

[DayTraderDad]

So for the TT crowed, which judge is going to declare SNH bankrupt for a Eur 110 mil claim???:

 

As of this morning:

 

Company Value

PEPCO €5,242

PEPKOR €2,890

CASH – IPO PEPCO €1,000

CASH €1,000

CW load €200

Total SNH Value €10,332

 

 

So what about Greenlit, MF and all other bits and prices??

Edited by DayTraderDad, 06 July 2021 - 08:58 AM.

[Sleepwa123]

Mr Mostert said on Cartblanche when Derrick asked him if he did his due diligence on SNH. His reply was that his due diligence was to follow Dr Wisse...now he I crying fowl

 

Even thought this is probably 100% the truth, I'm sure a good legal team would be able to talk its way around this. Even the best due diligence at the time would probably have found nothing wrong with the Steinhoff takeover.

They fooled institutional investors, analysts etc. for years. Some of them were weary but never weary enough to make anything of it. 

 

I honestly feel for these guys. What happened to them was wrong but the same applies to all participants and they cannot get special treatment relative to the peers in their settlement group.

[Tiekkie]

Mr Mostert is not the brightest peanut in the packet

Mr Mostert said on Cartblanche when Derrick asked him if he did his due diligence on SNH. His reply was that his due diligence was to follow Dr Wisse...now he I crying fowl

[sommerso]

Thanks good points. I have a thirds point could it be the close relationship between Tekkie Town crowed and Jooster got thrm to receive a excessive payment for the business? If you look at the turnover a d how much SNH paid it was excessive.
I just wonder if thjs will notcome up in court?

 

 

If I remember correctly Steinhoff had a tendency for the excessive and overpay for the assets, they paid a huge premium for Mattress Firm as well? Believing in the "value that can be unlocked" Perhaps a counter argument that TT can make. Though we shouldn't be talking about TT, as that is firmly in the stable of Pepkor and doing very well there, but rather Mr Tekkie as they want to be known now. 

 

But that is a good point, if they were offered cash and shares then the risk is on them. Also I'm not so sure how will they be protected differently than people that invest in ponzi schemes or crypto schemes. If my neighbour came to me and said, I'm going to buy your house and all the houses in the street, cause I'm rich, do all the maintenance and you can live in it rent free and I sell my house to him and a few months later the sheriff of the court knocks on my door and evicts me because he went and sold my house to some other developer or went bankrupt, how much legs would I have to stand on? I willingly signed. I can't decide to take my house back. Well that isn't how it is supposed to work. 

 

 

[Tiekkie]

Hhmm.. Trading 15% down from Friday, how has sanity prevailed?

tradegate made up 7% from Friday's losses.. Hence me saying that Algorithms can't read court judgements. It only react to headlines.

[DayTraderDad]

Ignore Zanme. He isn't worth the time.

Thanks DTD for the summary.
On the point about Tekkie Town founders seeking restoration, my mind goes to 2 places.

1. They had the option of shares or cash at the time and I believe the court will find that they took the risk associated with it. Unfortunately it went badly as these things sometimes do
2. They have remedy in law by going after the culprits personally. A previous court case stated that Steinhoff could not be taken to task as a company and that the litigants need to go after former directors.

Thanks good points. I have a thirds point could it be the close relationship between Tekkie Town crowed and Jooster got thrm to receive a excessive payment for the business? If you look at the turnover a d how much SNH paid it was excessive.
I just wonder if thjs will notcome up in court?

Edited by DayTraderDad, 05 July 2021 - 09:56 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Ignore Zanme. He isn't worth the time.

Thanks DTD for the summary.
On the point about Tekkie Town founders seeking restoration, my mind goes to 2 places.

1. They had the option of shares or cash at the time and I believe the court will find that they took the risk associated with it. Unfortunately it went badly as these things sometimes do
2. They have remedy in law by going after the culprits personally. A previous court case stated that Steinhoff could not be taken to task as a company and that the litigants need to go after former directors.

[Tiekkie]

Hahah what a funny story. Alac Hogg with his sad approach and voice made me cry!!! How on earth can they unpack the SNH saga! Once again they got the judgement wrong. Not to forget how investor on the bonds are criminals and bad people but Mr Mostert forgets to say if those same people were not brave enough to jump in in December 2017 he would not be today playing big guy in court because SNH would have gone bankrupt.

It is so sad to see people with such knowledge saying those things!!!

Mr Mostert is not the brightest peanut in the packet

[DayTraderDad]

Bernard Mostert @ https://iono.fm/e/1068889

Hahah what a funny story. Alac Hogg with his sad approach and voice  made me cry!!! How on earth can they unpack the SNH saga! Once again they got the judgement wrong. Not to forget how investor on the bonds are criminals and bad people but Mr Mostert forgets to say if those same people were not brave enough to jump in in December 2017 he would not be today playing big guy in court because SNH would have gone bankrupt.

 

It is so sad to see people with such knowledge saying those things!!!

[Squideye]

Abax Investments & Galileo Capital @ https://iono.fm/e/1068935

[Sleepwa123]

Ignore Zanme. He isn't worth the time.

Thanks DTD for the summary.
On the point about Tekkie Town founders seeking restoration, my mind goes to 2 places.

1. They had the option of shares or cash at the time and I believe the court will find that they took the risk associated with it. Unfortunately it went badly as these things sometimes do
2. They have remedy in law by going after the culprits personally. A previous court case stated that Steinhoff could not be taken to task as a company and that the litigants need to go after former directors.