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#361 Trader001

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 10:05 AM

This is my view:

 

Presently shares in issue 4200 mil and after the agreement total shares would be 21000. If by 2026 for every Eur 1 bil the NAV per share will be Eur 0,048 or R 0,88. Taking that both PEPCO and PEPKOR are growing fast I will see by then at least Eur 2  bil NAV. Thew alternative was nothing so for me this is a ghood deal that will just take more time to realize good profits. That why many people are buying at the low price.

Thanks DTD

 

Yes, I fully agree with your view, it is very sound and good:

 

Reading the comments on losses to be incurred  or that have already  been incurred on this share drop , I always think of Warren Buffet's advice:

"When everyone sell, you buy"

 

I see this as an opportunity of a lifetime to make more money, especially if you are already invested on  a very low average. I am in a situation now to buy even more and exit on any big spike.

 

Moreover, there will be may speculators who will be driving this price up and down but with any good news from Steinhoff there could be spikes. If you in low, try to bring your average down even more and exit, at least on breakeven or a profit. This is my philosophy....If you have not sold yet you have not lost yet.  

 

Don't get a shock on Monday 19/12 when this share opens between 20c and 30c on the JSE because that was about where it closed in Frankfurt on Friday.

 

BUT:

 

When will the creditor's resolutions be adopted? Will this be at the first shareholders meeting? This 80%/20% swop,

and is this a PRE-CONDITION OF THE EXISTING CREDIT FACILITIES' CONTINUATION?. This does not come out clearly or maybe I did not see it.

 

Then: Somewhere I saw in the creditors agreement that the proposals are also like "future type of arrangements or proposals" which might not be cast in stone  meaning that some of the elements of the agreement could well change in future?

Does this mean that some of the preconditions on extending the credit extension could well change, viz creditors no longer require 80% of the ordinary shares.

 

There is a saying in Afrikaans: "Papier is geduldig" meaning things can change. Can that vagueness in the document also allude to a more positive outcome for the ordinary shareholders by 2026 or 2028, when Steinhoff's performance improve and they are able to service more debt .

 

The scenario I am thinking about is: Can another  big creditor step into the fray offering less draconian conditions for credit extension? Is this option open?

 

Your DTD  and other views will be appreciated 


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#362 DeltaHedge

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 09:39 AM

Daily Maverick...


Definitely agree they are worthless now, why invest in this shite when there are better opportunities out there.
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#363 Motivated

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 02:04 AM

Think the PIC has more to loose!


Not sure if I should sell and take away R30000 with R80000 loss?


Anyone else sold up all SNH shares and washed their hands of SNH?
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#364 DayTraderDad

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 09:34 PM

Think the PIC has more to loose!


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#365 Motivated

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 09:04 PM

https://www.moneyweb...ally-insolvent/

:(

R85 000 down
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#366 Squideye

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 08:08 PM

Daily Maverick...

Attached Files


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#367 DayTraderDad

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 12:57 PM

The enormous drop of the share caught me a bit offsides as I am long on it, expecting it to generate a decent profit by at least 2026. 

 

What is so confusing is that today's  Sens came across as being quite threatful by the creditors and this spooked investors in Germany.

 

One media report that I have seen when I looked at the Frankfurt price was apocolyptic with most German analysts advising all to disinvest in Steinhoff. Now, I have heard that Germans are risk adverse and  that  is why there are so few casinos in Germany. 

 

I agree with the view of DayTraderDad. 

 

Someone also alluded to the fact that this creditor deal is good for Steinhoff, so did Du Preez as well, implying that business will be as usual and the draconian demands will only be enforced by 2026 or 2028 implying that he growth of the company will ensure interest payments and some of the loans as well putting shareholders in a better position, to at least get a better price and time to sell  without incurring huge losses.

 

So in my view it is therefore not all gloom and doom and that the reaction today was a complete over reaction. 

 

The question is ..Is this a win-win situation for current shareholders and what are the possible outcome of the scenarios at 2026. 

 

Any views? 

This is my view:

 

Presently shares in issue 4200 mil and after the agreement total shares would be 21000. If by 2026 for every Eur 1 bil the NAV per share will be Eur 0,048 or R 0,88. Taking that both PEPCO and PEPKOR are growing fast I will see by then atleast Eur 2  bil NAV. Thew alternative was nothing so for me this is a ghood deal that will just take more time to realize good profits. That why many people are buying at the low price.


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#368 DayTraderDad

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 11:38 AM

LOUIS YOUR GUYS GOAT HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. JUST AS I SAID THE GUY DIDN'T DESERVE A CENT. OH LOUIS IS GOING TO MAKE US MILLIONS. DADDY TRUCK LOADS HA HA HA

All along he said there was three pilars to get done so he is now completing the third. So for me he did exactly what he set out to do. The fact that things went againt SNH like the war and covid does not make him not delivering. Its like you go and buy a house take a big bond then you loose your job and become unemployed do you expect you back to say no worries mate you dont have to pay? Ofcourse you would have to go and negociate on bank terms because they have the uper hand. Spend some time to think before jumping with jingle bells!


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#369 DayTraderDad

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 11:31 AM


I TOLD YOU SO. JINGLE ALL THE WAY.

Yes very sure you also so good that predicted Covid and the Ukrainian war! Further the simple reason that shareholders still can keep 20% is again sign of great negiciations under very duficlt conditions. 


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#370 Squideye

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 10:23 AM

U gona have to stick to those durban curries now

 

:D ...

Attached Files


Edited by Squideye, 17 December 2022 - 10:24 AM.

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#371 DeltaHedge

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Posted 17 December 2022 - 06:32 AM



I TOLD YOU SO. JINGLE ALL THE WAY.



U gona have to stick to those durban curries now
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#372 Zanme

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Posted 16 December 2022 - 08:02 PM

This transcript is a translation from the original interview, which was conducted in Afrikaans and aired on RSG Geldsake @ https://www.moneyweb...ally-insolvent/



LOUIS YOUR GUYS GOAT HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. JUST AS I SAID THE GUY DIDN'T DESERVE A CENT. OH LOUIS IS GOING TO MAKE US MILLIONS. DADDY TRUCK LOADS HA HA HA
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#373 Zanme

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Posted 16 December 2022 - 07:59 PM

EQS-Adhoc: Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.: UPDATE ON MATURITY EXTENSION TRANSACTION @ https://www.finanzna...saction-023.htm




I TOLD YOU SO. JINGLE ALL THE WAY.
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#374 Squideye

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Posted 16 December 2022 - 01:31 PM

EQS-Adhoc: Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.: UPDATE ON MATURITY EXTENSION TRANSACTION @ https://www.finanzna...saction-023.htm


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#375 Squideye

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Posted 16 December 2022 - 05:42 AM

Die son sak oor Steinhoff @ https://iono.fm/e/1263846

 

This transcript is a translation from the original interview, which was conducted in Afrikaans and aired on RSG Geldsake @ https://www.moneyweb...ally-insolvent/


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#376 Squideye

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 07:43 PM

Die son sak oor Steinhoff @ https://iono.fm/e/1263846


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#377 Squideye

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 07:30 PM

The question is ..Is this a win-win situation for current shareholders and what are the possible outcome of the scenarios at 2026. 

 

Any views? 

.....The ultimate holding company of the post-closing Group is anticipated to be an unlisted company..... :rolleyes:
 

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#378 DayTraderDad

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 06:51 PM

I offloaded and reloaded a few times today.... sitting with the same quantity of shares in my portfolio as this morning but with an extra healthy amount of cash on the side..... :)

Thats the best way to make money from SNH!!


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#379 Trader001

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 06:07 PM

The enormous drop of the share caught me a bit offsides as I am long on it, expecting it to generate a decent profit by at least 2026. 

 

What is so confusing is that today's  Sens came across as being quite threatful by the creditors and this spooked investors in Germany.

 

One media report that I have seen when I looked at the Frankfurt price was apocolyptic with most German analysts advising all to disinvest in Steinhoff. Now, I have heard that Germans are risk adverse and  that  is why there are so few casinos in Germany. 

 

I agree with the view of DayTraderDad. 

 

Someone also alluded to the fact that this creditor deal is good for Steinhoff, so did Du Preez as well, implying that business will be as usual and the draconian demands will only be enforced by 2026 or 2028 implying that he growth of the company will ensure interest payments and some of the loans as well putting shareholders in a better position, to at least get a better price and time to sell  without incurring huge losses.

 

So in my view it is therefore not all gloom and doom and that the reaction today was a complete over reaction. 

 

The question is ..Is this a win-win situation for current shareholders and what are the possible outcome of the scenarios at 2026. 

 

Any views? 


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#380 Polla

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 05:07 PM

I agree with you... this would play out as a debt for equity swap.... I can't see any legal basis for creditors to take up 80% equity and still have all the debt being owed to them....  This swap will enhance all current shareholders positions if the majority of the debt is gone and they still own 20%..

And lastly, today's volumes trading represented only 1.6% of the total issued shares, bearing in mind a lot of those shares was the same one trading hands.  Therefore I believe the majority of the shareholders understand the deal and see the value in it....  My guess is that majority of shareholders will vote in favor of it.


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