15225 replies to this topic

[DeltaHedge]

Three years is actually long time. If we let this management do their magic they will make everything dissappear and Steinhoff will be worth zero.

 

Time to sell then and move on 

[Zanme]

I really enjoy the constructive opinions and really do understand how one feels but the reality we are too small to influence the dynamics.

I try to always focus on the positive side of things and I can only tell you all I have lots of bruses my first one was Glotech ( The company that had this uge investement on a Swiss company Temenos which was a big lie) then Kairos these were my schooling shares not to forget Erbacon which was a great buy even PSG was involved only to go belie up after the world cup..

After trading in SA for many years I joined the bandwagan of go offshore its much better there only to find the same currupt management there too.

A very good example take a good look at GE always advertised with execelent management only to fall off grace there too my burn makes showing.

The only comon thing I found in all those shares was new management having to fix what the other unresponsible director failed to do. Take GE Lary Kulp has is hands full turning such a company around and yes I believe in him so am invested there too.

Today we feel the loss pain and that at times makes us negative and we forget to take a carefull look at the underlaying business. Most people still focused on the loss making Steinhoff and forgeting that we now have a company totally turned around ready for growth. Take for example Poundland is now buying up opportunistic business again. Its incredeble no one ever mentions that.

The same with GE they make the biggest wind turbine (one of their turbines makes the same power of 5 turbines of the competition) in the world yet people still dont
believe in it but are always taking about we need to go green.

I cannot promisse 100% or guarantee that SNH will get to R25 but I do believe the business they have certainly has that potential so its a waiting game.

Hope this makes some sense to you guys. Dont focus on short term issues spend time understanding the business and let management do its magic.

Ho I love green beer!!!!

Three years is actually long time. If we let this management do their magic they will make everything dissappear and Steinhoff will be worth zero.

[LarryK]

There’s no certainties in this world, especially not now, but I have this feeling that I will regret it one day if I sell my Snh shares cheaply.

[DayTraderDad]

I really enjoy the constructive opinions and really do understand how one feels but the reality we are too small to influence the dynamics.

 

I try to always focus on the positive side of things and I can only tell you all I have lots of bruses my first one was Glotech ( The company that had this uge investement on a Swiss company Temenos which was a big lie) then Kairos these were my schooling shares not to forget Erbacon which was a great buy even PSG was involved only to go belie up after the world cup..

 

After trading in SA for many years I joined the bandwagan of go offshore its much better there only to find the same currupt management there too.

 

A very good example take a good look at GE always advertised with execelent management only to fall off grace there too my burn makes showing.

 

The only comon thing I found in all those shares was new management having to fix what the other unresponsible director failed to do. Take GE Lary Kulp has is hands full turning such a company around and yes I believe in him so am invested there too.

 

Today we feel the loss pain and that at times makes us negative and we forget to take a carefull look at the underlaying business. Most people still focused on the loss making Steinhoff and forgeting that we now have a company totally turned around ready for growth. Take for example Poundland is now buying up opportunistic business again. Its incredeble no one ever mentions that.

 

The same with GE they make the biggest wind turbine (one of their turbines makes the same power of 5 turbines of the competition)  in the world yet people still dont

believe in it but are always taking about we need to go green.

 

I cannot promisse 100% or guarantee that SNH will get to R25 but I do believe the business they have certainly has that potential so its a waiting game.

 

Hope this makes some sense to you guys. Dont focus on short term issues spend time understanding the business and let management do its magic.

 

Ho I love green beer!!!!

[Zanme]

Haha you really have a problem with LdP salary, and yes I agree with you that his salary is too high. But his salary will not bring down Steinhoff. Its 3 Million we are talking about.

Well the interest rate was not a choice and I agree 10% is super high, but they had no choice, they breached basically all debt covenants in 2017 after the crash and all debt became payable at once. So they had to find a solution and I'm pretty sure they tried to keep the interest rate as low as possible. They managed to secure the facilities until 2021 and now hopefully 2023. Also their number one goal is to reduce this. A perfect example of where management has failed to secure this extension is Intu properties. They are now in litigation and the share got delisted . . . Same thing could have happened with Steinhoff and there is still a possibility that this can happen.

Again they had to clean up the mess, so appointing PwC was not a choice but a necessity.

You can't compare Tongaat to Steinhoff.

And I think you are basing the performance of management directly to the share price. I understand your frustration, however I think we where all well aware of the risks this investments has since the crash.

Everyone should thus consider if they want to take the risk right? As mentioned before it can either go to zero or the turnaround can happen and we get rewarded.

Could you please tell me where did I give misleading/false information in my post?

I never said you gave misleading information. I haven't made any decisions based on your information. But I think that you give credit when its not due. You can compare management with integrity ie Tongaat Berkshire Hathaway to management without ie Steinhoff Eskom etc its universal. Whether its the South African government the spaza shop down the road or Steinhoff. Management makes or breaks a business. And Steinhoff has greedy and incompetent management.

[andi222]

Please don't quote Warren Buffet because he will never touch Steinhoff. Purely because he earns a fraction of what Louis earns.

My issue with Steinhoff has never been its assets its been managements ability to destroy wealth. The operational performance is not due to Louis at all as he is very removed from that. What has Steinhoff management done apart from splurging. In my opinion absolutely nothing. All those consultants and fees paid was for nothing. They paying a very high interest rate in an environment when interest rates are headed for zero. There is no investment in the world that is paying 10 percent. So they paid those fancy guys from New York to negotiate a great interest rate. They paid PwC to gather information that is useless. Than they paid themselves. But Andi my friend you cheerlead these guys on but what have they given you. They certainly haven't given me anything as a shareholder. So that is point that I am driving home here. There is nothing to celebrate. Even if they settle the lawsuit there is nothing miraculous that they doing. They have already done more damage than what was needed for this group.
Small scale or big scale the way that Tongaat managed their issues was totally different. Managements attitude to things were different. They recognize that they running the company for shareholders and are selling things like their fancy head office. Steinhoff guys are totally the opposite.

So Warrent Buffet will be ashamed to be in the same room with Steinhoff management. He earns USD 100 000. The size of his company is 9 trillion rand it is 3000 times the size of Steinhoff.
We all know that PeP is a legendary business. It seems like Europe is also good. Poundland is also a great business. So it has great assets but if you put a Captain who has his priorities mixed up he will sink the best ship in the world. Louis has proven that his priorities are wrong for shareholders and his not the guy to run our company. Maybe he is keeping Christo Wiese GT Ferreira happy and he is certainly making the banks happy. But for us shareholders whom he is technically working for he is doing nothing. And only once this changes will I say that there is real progress. Or else we will be seeing another Andi post on 21 October 2021 highlighting this false progress.

 

Haha you really have a problem with LdP salary, and yes I agree with you that his salary is too high. But his salary will not bring down Steinhoff. Its 3 Million we are talking about.

 

Well the interest rate was not a choice and I agree 10% is super high, but they had no choice, they breached basically all debt covenants in 2017 after the crash and all debt became payable at once. So they had to find a solution and I'm pretty sure they tried to keep the interest rate as low as possible. They managed to secure the facilities until 2021 and now hopefully 2023. Also their number one goal is to reduce this. A perfect example of where management has failed to secure this extension is Intu properties. They are now in litigation and the share got delisted . . . Same thing could have happened with Steinhoff and there is still a possibility that this can happen.

 

Again they had to clean up the mess, so appointing PwC was not a choice but a necessity. 

 

You can't compare Tongaat to Steinhoff.

 

And I think you are basing the performance of management directly to the share price. I understand your frustration, however I think we where all well aware of the risks this investments has since the crash. 

 

Everyone should thus consider if they want to take the risk right? As mentioned before it can either go to zero or the turnaround can happen and we get rewarded.

 

Could you please tell me where did I give misleading/false information in my post? 

[Zanme]

Zanme, I most probably said similar things yes. Luckily I don't have to change that view due to the progress being made.

I mean there is a lot of people in this and other forums who said that Steinhoff is bankrupt, they will be liquidated soon, there is no hope, legal costs will kill them, COVID is the end etc etc. . .

But still Steinhoff is there trading each day.

Also luckily I don't have to change my view to the following:
- All operating units are in loss making positions, stores are closing down due to bad performance, no expansions planned, fire sales of operating businesses just to cover legal and interest expenses etc. . .
- No settlement of claims is proposed, all legal claims will go on for years to come just making lawyers richer, Steinhoff needs to settle 8 Billion claims etc etc. .
- COVID19 broke Steinhoffs neck so they now need to liquidate. COVID19 turned all operating units into cash loss making positions etc. . .
- Loans need to be repaid immediately with no possibility of extension, Steinhoff needs to be liquidated to repay loans.

Is that what you want to hear? Or please list your points which are concerning to you? We can gladly discuss these.

A nice quote from Warren Buffett I have read on one of the forums:
“Successful Investing takes time, discipline and patience. No matter how great the talent or effort, some things just take time: You can’t produce a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant.”

Please don't quote Warren Buffet because he will never touch Steinhoff. Purely because he earns a fraction of what Louis earns.

My issue with Steinhoff has never been its assets its been managements ability to destroy wealth. The operational performance is not due to Louis at all as he is very removed from that. What has Steinhoff management done apart from splurging. In my opinion absolutely nothing. All those consultants and fees paid was for nothing. They paying a very high interest rate in an environment when interest rates are headed for zero. There is no investment in the world that is paying 10 percent. So they paid those fancy guys from New York to negotiate a great interest rate. They paid PwC to gather information that is useless. Than they paid themselves. But Andi my friend you cheerlead these guys on but what have they given you. They certainly haven't given me anything as a shareholder. So that is point that I am driving home here. There is nothing to celebrate. Even if they settle the lawsuit there is nothing miraculous that they doing. They have already done more damage than what was needed for this group.
Small scale or big scale the way that Tongaat managed their issues was totally different. Managements attitude to things were different. They recognize that they running the company for shareholders and are selling things like their fancy head office. Steinhoff guys are totally the opposite.

So Warrent Buffet will be ashamed to be in the same room with Steinhoff management. He earns USD 100 000. The size of his company is 9 trillion rand it is 3000 times the size of Steinhoff.
We all know that PeP is a legendary business. It seems like Europe is also good. Poundland is also a great business. So it has great assets but if you put a Captain who has his priorities mixed up he will sink the best ship in the world. Louis has proven that his priorities are wrong for shareholders and his not the guy to run our company. Maybe he is keeping Christo Wiese GT Ferreira happy and he is certainly making the banks happy. But for us shareholders whom he is technically working for he is doing nothing. And only once this changes will I say that there is real progress. Or else we will be seeing another Andi post on 21 October 2021 highlighting this false progress.

[Investment novice]

Support Andi. Views always consistemt on the journey. And each small victory brings us closer to a windfall...this is a moerse risk share, has always been

[andi222]

Andi I am sure I heard you say the same thing last year as well.

 

Zanme, I most probably said similar things yes. Luckily I don't have to change that view due to the progress being made. 

 

I mean there is a lot of people in this and other forums who said that Steinhoff is bankrupt, they will be liquidated soon, there is no hope, legal costs will kill them, COVID is the end etc etc. . .

 

But still Steinhoff is there trading each day.

 

Also luckily I don't have to change my view to the following:

- All operating units are in loss making positions, stores are closing down due to bad performance, no expansions planned, fire sales of operating businesses just to cover legal and interest expenses etc. . .

- No settlement of claims is proposed, all legal claims will go on for years to come just making lawyers richer, Steinhoff needs to settle 8 Billion claims etc etc. .

- COVID19 broke Steinhoffs neck so they now need to liquidate. COVID19 turned all operating units into cash loss making positions etc. . .

- Loans need to be repaid immediately with no possibility of extension, Steinhoff needs to be liquidated to repay loans.

 

Is that what you want to hear? Or please list your points which are concerning to you? We can gladly discuss these.

 

A nice quote from Warren Buffett I have read on one of the forums:

“Successful Investing takes time, discipline and patience. No matter how great the talent or effort, some things just take time: You can’t produce a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant.”

[Tom]

Andi I am sure I heard you say the same thing last year as well.

Me too.

And the results were disastrous.

[Africa1962]

I think we are in a way better position than a year or two years ago. Why do I say that:

 

- All operating units are highly profitable - Most of them are expanding, launching online channels and possible IPO's on the way. Even Pepkor is looking at opening an online channel (Called Everyshop) 

- We are close to settle 90 claims in one go, at an expense but reasonable price of around 0.8 billion €. 50% cash and 50% shares

- Steinhoff has remained robust even during COVID19, showing how strong the business actually still is

- Loans are most probably being extended for another 2 years. Awaiting confirmation

 

The good thing is progress is being made and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Again this is just my personal opinion and observations I have.

agree....(from one pom pom to another)

[Zanme]

Louis's pom pom club

[Zanme]

Andi I am sure I heard you say the same thing last year as well.

[andi222]

What now guys, have stopped following for a while, in summary are we looking a bit better or worse ? Morale looks a bit in the gutter

 

I think we are in a way better position than a year or two years ago. Why do I say that:

 

- All operating units are highly profitable - Most of them are expanding, launching online channels and possible IPO's on the way. Even Pepkor is looking at opening an online channel (Called Everyshop) 

- We are close to settle 90 claims in one go, at an expense but reasonable price of around 0.8 billion €. 50% cash and 50% shares

- Steinhoff has remained robust even during COVID19, showing how strong the business actually still is

- Loans are most probably being extended for another 2 years. Awaiting confirmation

 

The good thing is progress is being made and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Again this is just my personal opinion and observations I have.

[Investment novice]

We in holding peruod awaiting the news of the creditors allowing the settlement and the next steps.
Will get more shares by friday as salary clears and expenses paid. Hope it holds until then. Once news in expecting atleast r1.30 upwards...jyst my own feelings..remembet its not only a seetlement but clearing the comoany of major legal noose around the company. This is absolutely significant and complex. And a major step forward....

[DeltaHedge]

What now guys, have stopped following for a while, in summary are we looking a bit better or worse ? Morale looks a bit in the gutter

[Zanme]

So the court judgement proves that the PwC investigation was a big waste of money that Louis made. It was so obvious. All these guys will walk free and every cent spent like this is costing the true shareholders of Steinhoff and not Louis spin doctors.

[DayTraderDad]

The one I like most:

 

1. Group activity

Corporate and restructuring activity continued at elevated levels both throughout the reporting

period and thereafter, expanding and complicating the review process. Significant transactions,

including disposals, group restructures and other agreements, are required to be assessed from

an IFRS point of view and receive specific audit attention at both a subsidiary and Group level. In

addition, the Group’s auditors need to assess the impact on the Group’s financial statements of

the proposed settlement of litigation claims arising from legacy accounting issues, as announced

on 27 July 2020.

 

What will happen to the Audit remarks of going concern if the claims are settled?   I wounder if this is a big reason for the delay!!!

[andi222]

Yeah agreed why set timelines and then break them. They are aware of the complexity so they should plan accordingly. But this won't change any numbers etc. Just makes us wait a bit longer. 

[Tom]

And let's not talk about them breaking their own announced timeline on the failed first settlement, and replacing it by a lower version settlement without even announcing that, and on the contrary announced it as success of the first version.

Edited by Tom, 26 October 2020 - 03:34 PM.