15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

Not to forget that Wiese chaired and financed Steinhoff's buying of MF which triggered the short selling of Regency, which triggered Wiese's margin calls, and share price collapse, and then Wiese's court case came to totally kill the share price.

 

The main cause of the share price collapses was actually Wiese's decisions and choices.

Not to forget the Chairman allowed, approved and invested in a deal with  a massive primium 115%. Now wants existing shareholders to pay the money  back!!!

[Sleepwa123]

I also wouldn't underplay the likelihood that he only really sued to save face. He knew he was suing himself in essance but did not want to be viewed as part of the problem.

I think the optics of the situation are very important to his legal team.

[Tom]

It's been years that all what we have was media justice, it's time to start having actual law and court justice.

[Tom]

Not to forget that Wiese chaired and financed Steinhoff's buying of MF which triggered the short selling of Regency, which triggered Wiese's margin calls, and share price collapse, and then Wiese's court case came to totally kill the share price.

 

The main cause of the share price collapses was actually Wiese's decisions and choices.

Edited by Tom, 04 July 2020 - 11:05 AM.

[LarryK]

1. Like you say wiese was chairman during the mf acquisition
2. He was the biggest shareholder and could affect the appointment of certain executive positions
3. Wiese, when he initiated legal action vs Snh, was responsible for one of the worst slumps in the share price if I recall correctly.

Pepkore is a wholly South African company, and so Wiese (as a current and ex-shareholder of Steinhoff) cannot according to the South Africa law claim it or part of it back, even if he get a ruling from the Netherlands, as it will not be enforced in South Africa, and so Wiese cannot touch Pepkore in South Africa neither can he touch Steinhoff's shares in Pepkore in South Africa.

The second claim Wiese has relates to the Titan Group's capital injection into Steinhoff in 2016 to enable it to meet its debt obligations at the time of its acquisition of The Mattress Firm in the US: (( Which is the deal that actually caused the major value loss in Steinhoff )), and so Wiese should be blaming himself for getting Steinhoff to do this bad purchase.

Wiese still owns about 6% of Steinhoff's shares, and it will be in his favour to help Steinhoff bounce back (instead of just causing himself and all others trouble and losses), and so he will in this case recover a lot of his losses without having to pay legal expenses and probably lose his cases any way, even in The Netherlands, because he was biggest shareholder that could vote in or out CEO and other directors, board member and chairman of Steinhoff years before the accounting and governance scandal.

Steinhoff (owned be shareholders) was a victim of Wiese, while Wiese was actually a victim of himself.

[Tom]

Pepkore is a wholly South African company, and so Wiese (as a current and ex-shareholder of Steinhoff) cannot according to the South Africa law claim it or part of it back, even if he get a ruling from the Netherlands, as it will not be enforced in South Africa, and so Wiese cannot touch Pepkore in South Africa neither can he touch Steinhoff's shares in Pepkore in South Africa.

 

The second claim Wiese has relates to the Titan Group's capital injection into Steinhoff in 2016 to enable it to meet its debt obligations at the time of its acquisition of The Mattress Firm in the US: (( Which is the deal that actually caused the major value loss in Steinhoff )), and so Wiese should be blaming himself for getting Steinhoff to do this bad purchase.

 

Wiese still owns about 6% of Steinhoff's shares, and it will be in his favour to help Steinhoff bounce back (instead of just causing himself and all others trouble and losses), and so he will in this case recover a lot of his losses without having to pay legal expenses and probably lose his cases any way, even in The Netherlands, because he was biggest shareholder that could vote in or out CEO and other directors, board member and chairman of Steinhoff years before the accounting and governance scandal.

 

Steinhoff (owned be shareholders) was a victim of Wiese, while Wiese was actually a victim of himself.

Edited by Tom, 04 July 2020 - 10:42 AM.

[Investment novice]

Anban. Ascendis has a lot less baggage and locked in value. The price has been pummeled by margin calls and c2c. The share will see lots of energy end July closer to September... For now it will hover... May see some breakouts with good news coming through......
Steinhoff share can climb and experience a nice pump as it is dirt cheap... Ascendis as well... I have bought into both as part of my portfolio..... And really looking for 1000% share growth over two years.....
Pharma companies are like that...
These are nice punts.....



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[AnbanM]

[quote name="Investment novice" post="292130" timestamp="1593803193"]

Don't worry, Ascendis will do the same. I sold some of snh at 1.60 to buy ascendis as well.... Hold Ascendis... Especially with the Rand hedge.. And potential remedica disposal shareholders could get all their money back and still hold shares. If they don't dispose... Some nice money there..

Steinhoff darling.. Enjoy the pump...
Don't hassle.... We will have two months of pump in this share.... Think the roof could be at r6-R12...

I could not for the life of me know where the articles were on the 0.39 euro cents...

Plenti of time to get more....

thanks IN....will try and get back onboard SNH soon...

[DayTraderDad]

According to the South African Law, and the court ruling last week: (( Only Steinhoff can sue for losses, and so only Steinhoff can claim compensation)).

 

So for the previous or current share holders (including Wiese and old TT owner) cannot get any compensation in any South African court.

 

As for the class actions in The Nether Lands and Germany the law could be different (Wiese and any one involved previously in Steinhoff management cannot be part of the class action), and those class actions are actually suing them.

 

I don't understand why Steinhoff is still not suing Wiese and old TT owner.

 

I wonder what the PwC investigation is saying about Wiese, I'm expecting quite some number of things.

 

I think Steinhoff should settle with Wiese where Wiese actually pay compensation for Steinhoff in exchange of Steinhoff not suing him.

 

Wiese was a major party in damaging Steinhoff, by him being a chair person and supporting the Matress Firm deal, which was actually the main and biggest disaster where the actual and main value loss happened.

Tom you have a good post, I think the best way is for SNH to settle all claims excluding shareholders then have a general meeting shareholders direct the present chairman of Steinhoff to sue old directors and other parties for the money that has to be paid.  I believe that is how this will play out at the end.

[Investment novice]

Agree..... Interesting road ahead and with every victory we going to see alot more buyin with this share... Many days of optimism....

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[Tom]

According to the South African Law, and the court ruling last week: (( Only Steinhoff can sue for losses, and so only Steinhoff can claim compensation)).

 

So for the previous or current share holders (including Wiese and old TT owner) cannot get any compensation in any South African court.

 

As for the class actions in The Nether Lands and Germany the law could be different (Wiese and any one involved previously in Steinhoff management cannot be part of the class action), and those class actions are actually suing them.

 

I don't understand why Steinhoff is still not suing Wiese and old TT owner.

 

I wonder what the PwC investigation is saying about Wiese, I'm expecting quite some number of things.

 

I think Steinhoff should settle with Wiese where Wiese actually pay compensation for Steinhoff in exchange of Steinhoff not suing him.

 

Wiese was a major party in damaging Steinhoff, by him being a chair person and supporting the Matress Firm deal, which was actually the main and biggest disaster where the actual and main value loss happened.

[Investment novice]

True. A steinhoff settlement does not mean that the liability does not transferred. There is a reason steinhoff is paying pwc bills to go after directors and hence stregnthen the case against director liability and deloitte malpractice.
Shareholders will have a willingness to settle, and wiese will be on the back foot no matter how bold he may sound... Perhaps 10c to the Rand.

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[DayTraderDad]

I think a very important part of the judgement is being missed. Lets focus on what the judge said sharehlders can get their money back by having Steinoff suing the directors and chairman as well asDeloite. My take on this is Steinhoff will settle with various claims then sue the pants off the directors and Deloite to recover their loses.

 

Further the message is out take what is on the table or risk loosing everything in court!!!

[DayTraderDad]

Guys....different topic but similar to SNH

Wirecard.....dropped from 153 Euro's to 3 Euro's

 

What's your take on this?

Stay away you will get badly burnt there

[DayTraderDad]

Thanks for the article. Sounds like they are in advance stages of a settlement agreement.

 

So normally a settlement value should lie at around 5 to 10% of the total claim. I think everyone around the table knows they will never in their lives see the full claim value. 

 

Lets assume they settle for 10% on a global settlement. This would mean around 1 billion €. 

 

Now giving Pepkor a reasonable value of (EBITDA of 500 Mil € at a Multiple of 12 we get to 6 billion €). Surprisingly 18% of this 6 billion € amounts to roughly 1 Billion €.

 

I think Steinhoff does want to retain 50.1% ownership. So they will offer the claimants the 18%. Either they take the Pepkor shares or they get cash.

 

I think this is the absolute maximum Steinhoff will be able to settle without liquidating the whole group.

Andi I agree maybe get 5% and amunity from shareholder suing the Chairman.

[DayTraderDad]

(Bloomberg) --Steinhoff International Holdings NV is getting close to reaching a potential deal on 10 billion euros ($11 billion) of legal claims lodged against the global retailer following an accounting scandal that almost wiped out the company, according to two people with knowledge of the matter.
South African claimants -- including former chairman Christo Wiese whose suit amounts to 59 billion rand ($3.5 billion) -- have been offered a combination of cash and shares in Pepkor Holdings Ltd., one of the people said. It isn’t immediately clear how much a settlement could amount to, the people said, asking not to be identified because talks are continuing and a deal may not be reached. Steinhoff owns 68% of Pepkor, Africa’s largest clothing retailer.

“I’m hopeful it will be soon,” Wiese said by phone, without being more specific on the timing of a potential settlement or the offer. The 78-year-old has the biggest single claim against Steinhoff after becoming its largest shareholder when he sold Pepkor to the firm in 2015. “I wanted to get around the table and do a settlement as soon as we could, and now it’s dragged on for three years.”

The longer talks take, the more legal fees stack up, Steinhoff Chief Financial Officer Theodore de Klerk said in an interview. He declined to comment on when a settlement could be reached or details of an offer.

Excellent good news  to settle then directors and chairman to be sued, This way Wiese as Chairman will have money to pay shareholders for their loses.

[Investment novice]

share is taking off....feel a bit of an ooaf...liquidated my holdings to buy Ascendis...

Don't worry, Ascendis will do the same. I sold some of snh at 1.60 to buy ascendis as well.... Hold Ascendis... Especially with the Rand hedge.. And potential remedica disposal shareholders could get all their money back and still hold shares. If they don't dispose... Some nice money there..

Steinhoff darling.. Enjoy the pump...
Don't hassle.... We will have two months of pump in this share.... Think the roof could be at r6-R12...

I could not for the life of me know where the articles were on the 0.39 euro cents...

Plenti of time to get more....

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[Investment novice]

Stay away..... For now...

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[vishalsur]

Guys....different topic but similar to SNH

Wirecard.....dropped from 153 Euro's to 3 Euro's

 

What's your take on this?

[Tom]

What's happening?

 

Price going up.

Edited by Tom, 03 July 2020 - 07:35 PM.