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Steinhoff


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#8301 Captainfrom82

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:58 AM

Post h1 2019 should be free to commence buy back or post restructuring

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No!  The JSE and Steinhoff's auditors would not countenance such a proposal simply because the current laboured Steinhoff financial situation would not allow it.

 

From an economic perspective perhaps a case could be made to buy-back.  After all it is a sustainable and enduring benefit. 

 

However, right now Steinhoff has far bigger fish to fry than worrying about increasing EPS or NAV through "artificial means".  Arguably, any excess funds should be at first used to pair the eye-watering debt, and thereafter to raise funds for the litigation provisions.

 

A company that is running large losses, with a very anemic NAV buying back its own shares, is akin to that spendthrift friend of yours with no pension who is always going overseas on holiday!  It is a very poor decision indeed.

 

Best Regards

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#8302 Captainfrom82

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:46 AM

Here is another thought for you.
Snh was trading jnder cautionary untill the report was published, and now again until h1 2019 is published.

Is there any reason why a share buy back is not on the cards.....?

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Are you referring to the company buying back its own shares and holding them in its Treasury?

 

If so, there are clear hurdles that Steinhoff would have to prove.  Most notably, a company would have to prove that it is a going concern and that it had enough financial resources got the period ahead.  Only then would a buy back be approved.

 

Currently the Steinhoff current assets are less than the current liabilities, making the going concern status impossible...on paper anyway.

 

Best Regards

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#8303 Captainfrom82

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 09:42 AM

Depending on country and law will need to understand whether the actions of mj and all were representative of the company or whether the company itself is a victim.
Long road to freedom......settlement would be best case scenario...

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Does not make too much of a difference from a legal perspective.  The actions of a director is that the director is not seen to be acting for the company, but rather that the company is acting through the director.

 

As a result, it would be extremely difficult, indeed almost impossible to prove that the company is a victim when it is acting for itself. 

 

Regards

Captainfrom82


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#8304 DayTraderDad

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:47 PM

shareholding


Thanks for the information!!!
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#8305 Chris101

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:43 PM

shareholding

Attached Files


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#8306 Chris101

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 09:41 PM

shareholding


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#8307 Investment novice

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 04:45 PM

Post h1 2019 should be free to commence buy back or post restructuring

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#8308 DayTraderDad

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:04 PM

As per JSE listing requirements:
Dealing in prohibited periods 3.69 A director may not deal in any securities relating to the issuer: (a) during a closed period as defined; and ( B) at any time when he/she is in possession of unpublished price sensitive information in relation to those securities, or otherwise where clearance to deal is not given in terms of paragraph 3.66.
 
So I think there wont be any share buy back from management nor from Steinhoff itself until all information is released and up to date.


Thanks Andi indeed good point!! Just like you said before going to be a tough week!!
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#8309 andi222

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:59 PM

As per JSE listing requirements:

Dealing in prohibited periods 3.69 A director may not deal in any securities relating to the issuer: (a) during a closed period as defined; and (B) at any time when he/she is in possession of unpublished price sensitive information in relation to those securities, or otherwise where clearance to deal is not given in terms of paragraph 3.66.

 

So I think there wont be any share buy back from management nor from Steinhoff itself until all information is released and up to date.


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#8310 DayTraderDad

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:42 PM

Here is another thought for you.
Snh was trading jnder cautionary untill the report was published, and now again until h1 2019 is published.

Is there any reason why a share buy back is not on the cards.....?

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I agree with you it would make sense for SNH to buy back at these levels!!!
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#8311 Investment novice

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:20 PM

Here is another thought for you.
Snh was trading jnder cautionary untill the report was published, and now again until h1 2019 is published.

Is there any reason why a share buy back is not on the cards.....?

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#8312 Investment novice

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:58 PM

What is the worse case scenario for the legal issue.....bankruptcy liquadation.....its a lose lose scenario. Already factored into the share price.

Snh have a long course of action.....look at other case studies ....look at law of country...and its not as straight forward as you think....it is certainly not a r120b payout.

Accountability and share of accountability is important; corporate action and responsibility including due process to evaluate that the company acted accordingly once knowlegde of fraud uncovered and was not covered up.
And loss of value as a result of the companoes failure to protect shareholders.
Depending on country and law will need to understand whether the actions of mj and all were representative of the company or whether the company itself is a victim.
Long road to freedom......settlement would be best case scenario...

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#8313 andi222

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 01:07 PM

I think we will still see a drop to 7 cents again. However, if the 7 cents can hold I think this shares will start to sky rocket up. That would be a strong double bottom formed and that exactly 1 year ago.

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#8314 Milo

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:33 AM

Bla bla! Repeating of negative news is getting boring. 

 


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#8315 new john

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 08:07 AM

https://www.moneyweb...ns-pose-threat/

For those who don’t follow MoneyWeb.
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#8316 Shi

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 05:48 PM

Evidence of selective news and sensational headlines:

I wounder if Ann Crotty has the dignity to come out with a correction!!!


https://www.business...=recommendation

"Ann Crotty’s front page article on Steinhoff did not add up (As Steinhoff fights to stay afloat, auditors get R2bn, June 20).

The first two paragraphs asserted that Steinhoff “auditors and advisers” got R2bn in 2018 (not just the auditors, as in the headline) but it then listed only two amounts representing less than a quarter of that amount (one converted from euros to rand, one not). It proceeded to conflate these amounts with the no doubt egregious payments to Steinhoff executives.

So the missing R1,5bn was not deemed worthy of mention or explanation. I assume part of this was the PWC review. This was vital work and in no way analogous to the remuneration gouging of executives. Come on, you can do better than this.

Mike Spicer
Constantia "

 

 

Yip, typical reporting in that the heading is misleading, but with reference to the body of the article, the following link https://www.business...y-afloat-2018-6 has this 

 

 

Steinhoff reported that it had paid €39 million, or the equivalent of nearly R650 million, in professional fees over a period of four months, up to the end of March.

 

so, it is not feasible that SNH could have paid 2Bn in 2018 to “auditors and advisers” … this was for 4 months ONLY !!


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#8317 Investment novice

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 02:01 PM

I think there is sufficient information for the market to start backing this share. 2019 h1 results will provide some additional cash to the balance sheet and the restructuring will be the most impirtant boot required for this share.

This will various type of investors back into the snh world...

The litigation will always be a dark cloud...which in time will also dissipate....

Interesting that there is some positive media now compared to previous when it has all been negative....

Follow the positivity...expect this to increase with h1 2019 and following restructure...in any event very many small news outlets autoprint stories and hence the positive media will self propel

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#8318 DayTraderDad

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:54 AM

Evidence of selective news and sensational headlines:

I wounder if Ann Crotty has the dignity to come out with a correction!!!


https://www.business...=recommendation

"Ann Crotty’s front page article on Steinhoff did not add up (As Steinhoff fights to stay afloat, auditors get R2bn, June 20).

The first two paragraphs asserted that Steinhoff “auditors and advisers” got R2bn in 2018 (not just the auditors, as in the headline) but it then listed only two amounts representing less than a quarter of that amount (one converted from euros to rand, one not). It proceeded to conflate these amounts with the no doubt egregious payments to Steinhoff executives.

So the missing R1,5bn was not deemed worthy of mention or explanation. I assume part of this was the PWC review. This was vital work and in no way analogous to the remuneration gouging of executives. Come on, you can do better than this.

Mike Spicer
Constantia "

Edited by DayTraderDad, 23 June 2019 - 10:54 AM.

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#8319 Milo

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 12:34 PM

A good post from German forum

 

himself81: Liquidity is good - 2. Reading the balance sheet gives courage

 

Page 138 shows the consolidated balance sheet. As of 30 September 2018, the Group has cash and cash equivalents of € 1,275 million. In addition, there are another € 100 million from the subsidiaries and "held-for-sale" investments, and more later. 


On the other side, there are a total of € 10.3 billion in gross debt (interest gearing). After rounding, net debt thus amounts to approximately € 9.1 billion. Everything is very clear in the tables and also many texts. 

Now it is interesting, however, as far as the divestments and the associated cash flow are concerned: 

1) For Kika-Leiner, no cash-relevant incoming payments have yet been posted. The purchase price of € 397 million has yet to be credited to receivables at the balance sheet date, see page 149, Notes 1.4 and Notes 12, which will continue to grow cash in H1 / 19.

2) Early-Bird Fees, LUA Fees, etc. have already been recorded in Balance Sheet 18, even if they are paid out in the future. These are therefore already cash neutral and will no longer burden the income statement in 19.



3) page 275, Notes 34 are extremely important, here the assets held-for-sale are listed in detail, in detail POCO (which again proves that no payment has been booked here, as the "totals" for assets and liabilities comply those on page 138 with which we initially started), the automotive branch, Mattress Firm, Steinpol and a smaller item "Other". All this has only a ridiculous book value of € 641 million, if you subtract POCO, it would even be only € 370 million. I would like to break down my assumptions: 370 million € can be redeemed alone in the automotive segment (at least for 100%, first only about 75% delivered). MF will be worth at least € 700 million (book value € 95 million) under Ch11 and approximately 50%, otherwise worth it in my view, no sales below this sum. Steinpol still had an enterprise value of € 26.5 million in the balance sheet if necessary. € 9 million, let's assume € 20 million. Book value for Steinpol is rated negatively. In addition, around € 0.3bn of interest-bearing debt is still part of it, although these are already reported separately and are no longer included in the above-mentioned € 10.3bn.
In total, we will be able to redeem approximately € 720 million more than net book values ​​were estimated. These sales actions alone can more than make up for the current negative EK of the shareholders.

4) Conforama: Anyone expecting further depreciation here has not yet seen the balance sheet. See page 177, where goodwill is already stated as zero and brand values ​​as € 200 million. What should be written off here in a great way? Internal debts are not a problem as they are fully consolidated and therefore neutral. Should Conforama be surrendered, then I expect Conforama's internal debts to SEAG (which should now be reduced to € 1.4 billion after a repayment, see Announcements), be canceled. Conforama would be worth about € 1.4 billion again. With this debt, the value is currently seen at zero (EC -0.5 billion € as at 31.12.2018, currently rather lower). If Seifert then gets 25% and in what form (from a negative book value?), I do not consider war decisive. Of course we want to know that prevented.

5) There were and are, of course, other major and minor events. We will see these with the balance sheet. For example, we already know about KAP sales for € 293 million. 

So let's sum up: 
Cash € 1275 million 
Kika-Leiner € 397 million 
POCO € 271 million 
Further sales, see Item 3: € 370 million + € 720 million = € 1090 million 
KAP € 293 million 

Then Without taking into account other factors (high costs, but excluding interest payments, positive cash flow), it is expected that cash and cash equivalents of approximately € 3.3 billion will be available at the end of 2019. I assume that € 2 billion to € 2.6 billion can be used for repayments. The rest remains cash stock.

However, the net debt is suddenly only € 7 billion! While we continue to have negative effects, including the sale of Conforama and more conservative rather than optimistic assumptions, I believe that achieving a net liability of € 6.5 billion in the medium term is feasible. 

The last few days here was an example of a forist with a net debt: EBITDA ratio of 8 as a critical limit. That would mean an EBITDA of approx. € 810 million for Steinhoff. Well, we have almost reached the fateful year 2018 under extremely adverse conditions for the "continued operations" ...

I still think the turnaround is feasible, even if the CVA had no direct impact on the existing debt burden. But in our sense, that could include more surprises. 

Do not be alarmed by the current negative book value of Steinhoff. The management's plan is visible and feasible, and soon we will hear more positive news and numbers.
 
 
 
 himself81:  Liquidity the 2.

Sure, I've forgotten something somewhere, such as the € 200 million from the burst Shoprite / Meadow Deal ... ;-) Can then do your own bills ...

 

 


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#8320 DayTraderDad

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:27 PM

Interesting volume traded at close: 19,489,763
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