15225 replies to this topic

[Tom]

When a court issues a final court order to pay a compensation, then the company will have to immediately pay, or else the executers (e.g. the sheriff) will immediately attach the company properties and not release it until the full amount is paid, regardless of what others think, assume or try to do (e.g. the creditors).

Edited by Tom, 10 April 2019 - 02:54 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Tom creditors are in control of the company assets so if the courts decide to give Tekkie Town or CW or any other claimant the money that if left
they will demand the debt is immediately paid then a fire sale takes place and no one gets any money.
That will leave all claimant, existing shareholders with nothing.
Do you honestly believe that is the route CW is choosing and then decided to spend again lots of millions to buy share to increase his losses?
It is of interest both VEB, CW and other have mention they have no intention for SNH to go bust so not seeing your point!!!

But I suggest you sell all your shares in SNH if you feel that SNH is bust because only a fool will invest if his judgement says the share he
is buying is going to Zero.

[Tom]

Bottom line is that the court cases will be haunting Steinhoff share price for years and years to come, and they will keep knocking the share price down, and if a court order comes out with a compensation for any of the aggrieved shareholder (for the class actions, CW, or the others) this can very well cause the collapse and unlisting of Steinhoff.

Edited by Tom, 10 April 2019 - 02:01 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

https://www.biznews...._medium=twitter

[DayTraderDad]

An urgent application was brought to the Cape Town High Court on Tuesday to prevent Steinhoff from selling Pepkor shares, which could lead him to lose control of him.

[DayTraderDad]

Mattress Firm Board of Directors Announces the Resignation of Chief Executive Officer

https://www.prnewswi...-300828444.html

[JK001]

Not sure what you actually want to say Tom. In the corporate world you will find companies that are in a precaurious position often refocus on its core competency. KAP non core , so sale was expected .
Share prices as you know are often influenced by external factors , rand / dollar , brexit and yes even trump.
Investors dislike uncertainty and kicking the can down the road does not help.

[Tom]

Announcement of a delay on SNH (according to some news article) caused the price to drop by 4%, while in other shares the price to went up.

 

And for some other shares following announcements of disposal of some business platform the price dipped, while following Steinhoff announcement of intention to dispose business assets (KAP shares) in to a black empowerment deal the price went up.

 

Many times in Steinhoff (and other shares) as the news is good the share price goes down, and as the news is bad the share price goes up, also many time the price goes sharply up or down without any news at all.

 

I think the news might be a factor in the movement of the share price or a trigger for a bump up or short selling, but not always, while the big traders have their own mind and priorities.

Edited by Tom, 09 April 2019 - 02:54 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

https://rantandrave....ment of Service

[DayTraderDad]

Steinhoff International’s share price dipped by more than 4% on the JSE after the group announced that it would delay
publishing its 2017 annual results by another month. Citadel Trader Jordan Weir says it is reasonable to assess the
delay in announcing the results as arising from the complexities woven into the company’s historical accounting practices
and that these complexities might have been profoundly underestimated.

[DayTraderDad]

Interesting article: https://www.moneyweb...stumbles-again/

Highlight:

"If we ever reach the end of this saga, the Steinhoff internal audit department as well as the Steinhoff tax department
is going to have a lot to answer for. It is not possible to “take debt off balance sheet”, nor “create” fictitious income,
without someone processing the journal entries, no matter how intricate and complex. Further, fictitious income is taxable,
unless the tax department removes it from the taxable income computation. Someone should have had the balls to stand up and
say this is wrong."

[DayTraderDad]

Reading the various post it is very clear to me that people still have difficulty understanding that the success of SNH survival was the LUA and now the restructuring of the debt under the CVA.

Yes SNH is in a precarious position until the financial restructuring is complete because if the restructure not done they will have to do a fire sale and bye bye SNH. This was explained by the CEO and Chairwomen in parliament but I guess people did not hear that.

As Burnt as well mention SNH is technical insolvent (even MJ explained this in his visit to parliament) but this news was out already on the 7th December 2017 because of long term debt became current debt and if creditors demanded their cash SNH would have to go through a fire sale which that is exactly what management managed to do yet being knocked down as incompetent liars etc.

Mention is made of the Hedge Funds investing which also no one is mentioning they bought the debt at 50 cts to the Euro and if they get the full amount back they would be making 100% ( not to mention the interest and sweeteners) in a financial environment that is virtually interest of 1% and possibility of rate cuts looming.
Therefore the Hedge Funds have all the interest that SNH survives and pays their debt.

Lots of speculation on the CW claim but VEB already said he will not succeed in Holland so that leaves SA and yes lets say he is going to be successful from where is the money coming to pay him?

The Hedge funds control SNH they have to agree on sale of assets and they have the first right of claim so from the 2018 financials available there is a equity of E3793 mil which is close to the CW claim.
So which court will now give everything to CW and leave all the other claimants high and dry?

I can already hear the story of the gold for fake diamonds but the reality is in 2015 alarms should have rung that things are not all that well and as a Chairman maybe more due diligence was required. Quite sure this will come up in the court case.

In December 2017 I read an article were the Hedge Fund that bought the bonds was asked why they bought into SNH without even knowing the extend of the issues and the response “ Steinhoff have over 12000 stores with over 30 brands so there has to be value.”

I have no interest in convincing anyone to by or sell SNH simply like putting things in a perspective because to just look at a share negative then there is no point in investing.

If I had to choose between a company riddled with corrupt tenders and a property business that survival depends on government rentals I would still prefer SNH which is being called pyramid scheme (obviously people don’t understand what a pyramid scheme is) but if it is so be it because the PEP idea is a winning scheme.

[Midas1]

Constructive for people interested snh

[Burnt as well]

excellent point picked up..besides the CL exceed the CA bit...bet u meant TL exceed TA for a company to be technically insolvent...

will expand on point this later

Yes you are correct, meant TL and TA. I’m a CA (SA) and CFA charterholder; although I’m invested in this, have to be honest with myself that this is a gamble (maybe calculated but gamble nonetheless). There’s a lot of emotions and posters becoming defensive on this forum but if one shifts through the noise, there’s excellent insights on both sides.

Polly’s made some good points on the downside. She refers to company being in a “precarious position” which means they cash flow challenged and probably have a current ratio of less than 1. In addition to that, they might be technically insolvent. And of course, the big claim by CW.

On the positive side, we have excellent restructuring experts with the company. They have a global footprint (although the analyst community doesn’t like too much diversification as they feel it results in lack of focus, see Imperial’s share price) and some solid businesses. They have a huge amount of debt taken up by hedge funds that specialize in distressed debt; these guys are vultures and will only step in if they see significant value. But this is also a disadvantage as the HFs are keeping the company alive and nothing can be done without their consent. And finally, we know that a large chunk of pensioners funds are invested in this.

Taking all of the above into account, I see a slightly higher probability of upside (maybe 60/40 instead of 50/50 survival). But this is my personal opinion trying to make sense of what’s going on with the lack of information available. Therefore to conclude, this is an extremely high risk investment and I would only invest funds that I can afford to lose (as mentioned by IN many times).

Good luck and all the best to everyone

[Polly]

Ps multichoice..i said hate concept and all stands for..personally i think in years theyll run out steam and i think we all resent what we paying for sport..etc..since i sa8d that ive traded it few times bought and sold higher..am i a liar..no..its trading opportunity..but i won't go into my equity portfolio cause will be ok few years then good chance starys go frot..but my opinion..ill still buy it and sell it in interim..may pay gor my rip 9ff subscription...cheers sat night so im off. .but i see you at loggerheads

 

@ Midas... I opened a new thread  Risk/Reward for you... dont wanna taint your cfd trades here with the Pyramid sceheme

[Polly]

Hey DTD,

 

The lesson to be learned is that it is impossible to argue with an imbecile about something that requires a degree of intelligence.  It is like trying to argue with a Grade 4 pupil who believes that he "understands numbers" about the value of calculus. 

 

My advice would be to ignore him.  It is not worth it mate.  He is delusional, tiresome and extremely annoying.  But, you are only going to work yourself up mate.

 

Continue to post your comments. 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Is this your fear of being exposed..Well everything slowly unfolding..

 

When the house / casino starts losing next step is to kick you out neh!!!! and then what follows???

[Polly]

Dear Polly

Thanks for this mail it was very informative. The previous 10 was not and was actually a bit irretating as I dont like this name calling from all the parties.

 

Everyone makes mistakes and so do you as well. Buy EOH at R 20 was a 100% loss. And if you still have it you will loses some more because the people I talk to say it will go down some more.

 

Anyway coming back to the point as you said I do agree that management is *** us around and I do believe PWC is trying to prolong this to make as much possible money out of this.

It just cannot be so complex!! Accountants and lawyers always fcks clients. Thats how they work and are trained. I love all the flack they are getting. So im very sure large amounts of the debt will be settled by claims against the relevant accountants.

 

Thanks to all the writers.

Hi Chris

 

I think those 10 points are very pertinent to point out how everything bad ( especially the sens) about the Pyramid scheme is being painted as good by the side on the right. read it again and you will see.

 

As far as EOH is concerned , go to that thread and see whats potting. Lets not confuse it with the Pyramid scheme. If you see there i got back in last week.

 

Name calling....well i counted about 12 insults/name calling directed at me  since i made the  post you refer to.. How many did you count? I actually gave the reason why the right wing insults/name calls if you did not follow the thread. Always part and parcel of a losing strategy..

[Polly]

People correct me im i wrong

 

Hi Lionelza1,

 

Let me start by advising that you were spot on about the additional delay.  You were right, and many others including myself was wrong in this regard.

 

To place the above in context, the most recent delay was no fault of Steinhoff.  The Steinhoff auditors Deloitte wanted more time.  To quote: "Deloitte now require additional time to be in a position to arrive at their audit opinion".

 

Steinhoff cannot release audited AFS without the auditor's sign off.

 

Relax, and consider the situation rationally.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

If you read this in isolation , i read this in simple English as....

The pyramid scheme is not to blame after the sens  issued for more time required but Deloittes to blame as they require more time!! relax everything is in order...

 

Is this what i read.....How do youll read it?

 

If what i read is correct then..

 

Deloittes requires  more time because it could be for any reason unrelated /fault of PS...

 

By implication then maybe they have staff tied up elsewhere , understaffed at moment , feel PS is not a priority etc etc.

 

This is how the side on the right misleads with their posts.  Thats why i always say carefull out there...You being taken hook line and sinker. If you read the sens and as L points out , delays directly related to the PS via 

 

1. “The track and trace process required to ensure that all appropriate adjustments and journals are audited at each subsidiary and sub-consolidation level, however, is proving to be far more complex and time consuming than expected.”

2. subject to no delays caused by the challenge to the blah blah..

 

 

​relax L... and people the rational fake thinking thinks all is in order for the PS...  

[Milo]

I f everybody like parliament finance committees and lawyers and previous shareholders etc… left Steinhoff alone for a while maybe they would have been able to finished their financials but everybody is getting to greedy. It’s a joke I hope Steinhoff win all their court cases after all this interfering from all this palookas.

[Lionelza1]

Hi Lionelza1,

 

Let me start by advising that you were spot on about the additional delay.  You were right, and many others including myself was wrong in this regard.

 

To place the above in context, the most recent delay was no fault of Steinhoff.  The Steinhoff auditors Deloitte wanted more time.  To quote: "Deloitte now require additional time to be in a position to arrive at their audit opinion".

 

Steinhoff cannot release audited AFS without the auditor's sign off.

 

Relax, and consider the situation rationally.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

 

 

As per the latest sens, the delay was not caused by challenge to SEAG CVA

 

as you correctly pointed out, deloitte needs more time

 

"The issues highlighted have proved to be exceptionally complex in both accounting and

auditing terms and Steinhoff wishes to be diligent in ensuring that all issues are correctly
dealt with and disclosed in the Group’s annual financial statements. Substantial progress
has now been achieved with this task. We have also made substantial progress with
Deloitte, the Group’s external auditor, on the audit process and we expect to conclude on
the remaining principle issues in the next week."

 

SO now what happens if steinhoff fails to negotiate with LSW....do we see a further delay come 7 May as per below sens?

 

Financial statements

The Company currently anticipates publishing its Group audited financial statements for 2017
and 2018 by 18 April 2019, subject to any delay caused by the challenge to the SEAG CVA.