15225 replies to this topic

[Lionelza1]

Hi DTD

Honestly, regardless of our opinion, the share is not doing well, even after all the information released. I assume releasing the full report will not help much either. It’s crazy that confirming the 8 names had no positive impact, the market didn’t care.

So we have afs to look forward to and if this is not very positive or better than expected what then?

Heather Sonn stressed the fact yesterday that they are still in a precarious position financially and isn’t the CVA being challenged?

I am invested in this share and hope for good returns but so far all I’m doing is paying school fees.

Also, imho, our judicial system is not exactly perfect, so there’s no guarantee precedence will be upheld, should any of this go to court.
I do however feel CW’s claim should be withdrawn as he could have sold his shares for big profits a few years ago, but then again he is a billionaire for a reason and would not do this without good reason/council

What needs to happen for Mr Market to pay R3 or R5 or R10 a share?

Hi Larry

 

Heather Sonn comment Probably the reason why we seen that market response.

 

Seifert challenege next to look out for. 

 

They must release afs mid april or we are seeing further drops.

 

I dont like putting share prices up as i feel thats most misleading but for me i think we only seeing R5 after afs release, if they give us on 18april

[LarryK]

Hi DTD

Honestly, regardless of our opinion, the share is not doing well, even after all the information released. I assume releasing the full report will not help much either. It’s crazy that confirming the 8 names had no positive impact, the market didn’t care.

So we have afs to look forward to and if this is not very positive or better than expected what then?

Heather Sonn stressed the fact yesterday that they are still in a precarious position financially and isn’t the CVA being challenged?

I am invested in this share and hope for good returns but so far all I’m doing is paying school fees.

Also, imho, our judicial system is not exactly perfect, so there’s no guarantee precedence will be upheld, should any of this go to court.
I do however feel CW’s claim should be withdrawn as he could have sold his shares for big profits a few years ago, but then again he is a billionaire for a reason and would not do this without good reason/council

What needs to happen for Mr Market to pay R3 or R5 or R10 a share?

[DayTraderDad]

Mr Haha....all your comments are expected exactly like a 5 year old... Either you blond or plain old stupid...Sorry man   i cant fix or help you. Some of you is really broken inside and nothing nor anyone  will help you. Im a realist and accept that.

 

You need to work and identify your weakness and like all professionals , work on it , then try to own it. then remove it or cut it out..Simple...all by yourself.. I dont apologise for the truth.

 

You see if you want someone to lie and only tell you what you want to hear , i am not that guy.  That is an expensive exercise.  The other 3 so called Gurus will do that for you...Some pay more than others.

 

 

Anyway this has to be the post of the day ....

 

 

Ho no there was no fun at all it was greed lots of money and lots of people with serious financial losses. Do you really still believe that MJ would go to the office at night with the CFO and change the figures before the accountant team came to work in the morning? Further do you really believe in the Steinhoff accounting team there was not one single accountant being well trained like you mention that would not realise there is something amiss and inform the authorities as it is required by the code of conduct of accountants?

 

Couldnt resist posting this.. bet Lionel had a good laugh too...

 

​It just shows how little you know about this case and still have the nerve to say it wasn't fraud..         

 

As i said you won..Good Luck...

You don't have to apologise for truth you have never posted nothing at all all you do is vague statement even when asking for facts you are as vague as a snake. All I can do is promise you you will eat every single work in time I will be there even if I put the comment in your Help Desk. You don't help people you try to scare people helping is providing proper information very much like Captain does in a few post he said much more then you all this time. One can learn from his posts.

The reason I challenge you and bore everybody in the forum is because you are arrogant and never commit just vague and bite peoples head when they comment.

[Polly]

Mr Haha....all your comments are expected exactly like a 5 year old... Either you blond or plain old stupid...Sorry man   i cant fix or help you. Some of you is really broken inside and nothing nor anyone  will help you. Im a realist and accept that.

 

You need to work and identify your weakness and like all professionals , work on it , then try to own it. then remove it or cut it out..Simple...all by yourself.. I dont apologise for the truth.

 

You see if you want someone to lie and only tell you what you want to hear , i am not that guy.  That is an expensive exercise.  The other 3 so called Gurus will do that for you...Some pay more than others.

 

 

Anyway this has to be the post of the day ....

 

 

Ho no there was no fun at all it was greed lots of money and lots of people with serious financial losses. Do you really still believe that MJ would go to the office at night with the CFO and change the figures before the accountant team came to work in the morning? Further do you really believe in the Steinhoff accounting team there was not one single accountant being well trained like you mention that would not realise there is something amiss and inform the authorities as it is required by the code of conduct of accountants?

 

Couldnt resist posting this.. bet Lionel had a good laugh too...

 

​It just shows how little you know about this case and still have the nerve to say it wasn't fraud..         

 

As i said you won..Good Luck...

[DayTraderDad]

Haha I laugh because I find you amusing. I am barking the correct tree for the following: ( Again you see I put figures and do research you just blow hot air)

1 - In South Africa you are innocent until proven guilty. I think you living in the same SA!!! So your are making comments and  in a Kangaroo court judgements.

2 - Two CFO's involved surely this is not good for the accounting profession. They were the people that allowed the figures to be massaged, yes accountants working with a accountant CEO.

3 - I still standby what I said Wiese sold Pepkor in 2014 so now in 2017 after being director and chairman for years wants his money back. So when you sell a business how long is a guarantee to get your money back. Most good you buy have 6 months. Hahaha

4 - The Mattress Firm deal that had Wiese blessing went bankcrupt 2 years later after paying a 115% premium. Surely this must be very poor judgement form a tough businessman.

 

So you see Polly I told you I will show you up on this forum for the vague information you post so suggest you suck it up!!!!

Ho sorry Polly I forgot in 2014 there was already quite a few well know people that had doubt on the Steinhoff accounting techniques so a hard businessman would have done it due diligence and one of the things he would look is the comments running around about the Steinhoff difficult to understand accounting.

[DayTraderDad]

Mr Haha , i honestly think you lost it completely..You were barking up the wrong tree for each one above , still barking and now pissing on the poor tree..Get your marbles checked , something nor right with your thinking...

 

 

Eish he still insist its not fraud , still insists Wiese party to this, still think Wiese not allowed to claim his jewel back , still think still thinks everything negative about SNH is positive...clutching on straws trying to survive this one...

 

 

Hay Haha you won man...we lost....So dont fret and troll your posts here...Its becoming boring....

Haha I laugh because I find you amusing. I am barking the correct tree for the following: ( Again you see I put figures and do research you just blow hot air)

1 - In South Africa you are innocent until proven guilty. I think you living in the same SA!!! So your are making comments and  in a Kangaroo court judgements.

2 - Two CFO's involved surely this is not good for the accounting profession. They were the people that allowed the figures to be massaged, yes accountants working with a accountant CEO.

3 - I still standby what I said Wiese sold Pepkor in 2014 so now in 2017 after being director and chairman for years wants his money back. So when you sell a business how long is a guarantee to get your money back. Most good you buy have 6 months. Hahaha

4 - The Mattress Firm deal that had Wiese blessing went bankcrupt 2 years later after paying a 115% premium. Surely this must be very poor judgement form a tough businessman.

 

So you see Polly I told you I will show you up on this forum for the vague information you post so suggest you suck it up!!!!

[Polly]

Further Polly I have been saying it was impossible for MJ to cook the the figures without accountants and today the proof is out.

 

 

Not so long ago the CFO that could only read spreadsheets did not know anything at the time but today he got vision. Hahaha I love this story with all the claims auditor are getting they should start doing audit from jail.

 

 

Yes don't worry the accountant crooks will also come to the party!!!!

 

 

 

https://www.fin24.co...n-deal-20141125

 

So the bolt of the blue deal in 2014 that flashed in 2017:

 

Steinhoff said it will buy Wiese's 52.47% stake for 609.1 million shares at a price of R57 each and

Brait's 37.06% for R15bn in cash and 200 million shares.

It will also buy 2.81% from Pepkor's management giving it a 92.34% stake overall.

 

Haha seriously do these people want people to believe that he never benefited the SNH share reached R97 in March 2016 then stupid deal of buying Matress Firm which he must have been sleeping inthe meeting and did not notice the excessive price tag was the last straw!!!

 

Now crying wanting the diamonds back!!!

 

In 2016: 

South African retailer Steinhoff International Holdings will buy Mattress Firm Holding Corp, the largest specialty bedding retailer in the United States, for $3.8 billion which includes debt, both companies said on Sunday.

 

Steinhoff said it will pay $64 per share, a premium of about 115 percent to Mattress Firm’s Friday close in a deal that will create the world’s largest mattress retail distribution company. The boards of both firms have approved the deal, the companies said in a statement.

 

 

 

Mr Haha , i honestly think you lost it completely..You were barking up the wrong tree for each one above , still barking and now pissing on the poor tree..Get your marbles checked , something nor right with your thinking...

 

 

Eish he still insist its not fraud , still insists Wiese party to this, still think Wiese not allowed to claim his jewel back , still think still thinks everything negative about SNH is positive...clutching on straws trying to survive this one...

 

 

Hay Haha you won man...we lost....So dont fret and troll your posts here...Its becoming boring....

[Polly]

MultiQuote

 

Haha now I know why the sudden purchase of shares in September buy Titan. The African Bank ruling was on the 03rd September 2018.

 

https://city-press.n...-claim-20180903

 

and now lets talk boys! Hahahaha

 

No luck in SA and Holland so best negotiate.

 

 

 

There is a caurt ruling for ABIL which is described in the link: 

 

https://www.financia...nies-act-fails/

 

Insert from the article that gives a good example how shareholders in SA have no claim for losses.

 

"The claim against the auditors also failed. It was based on the delict of negligent misstatement. The company suffered the loss, not the shareholders. It is a bedrock principle of company law in South Africa that shareholders have no personal claim for damages in these circumstances; only the company suffering the loss has a claim against the third party causing the loss.

 

Shareholders benefit from limited liability and are not, except in very exceptional circumstances, liable for the debts incurred by the company. The corollary of this limited liability is limited rights. Because a shareholder is normally not exposed to the liabilities of a company, it is normally not the beneficiary of claims accruing to the company.

 

This clarity about the limitations of section 218(2) is very welcome because it will discourage all-comers seeking remedies under the section."

 

 

 

Where is the fraud confirm? Which court confirmed that?

 

 

Lionel listen to this it will tell you what I mean: http://www.702.co.za...ound-the-corner

 

•  

[DayTraderDad]

Haha now I know why the sudden purchase of shares in September buy Titan. The African Bank ruling was on the 03rd September 2018.

 

https://city-press.n...-claim-20180903

 

and now lets talk boys! Hahahaha

 

No luck in SA and Holland so best negotiate.

[DayTraderDad]

There is a caurt ruling for ABIL which is described in the link: 

 

https://www.financia...nies-act-fails/

 

Insert from the article that gives a good example how shareholders in SA have no claim for losses.

 

"The claim against the auditors also failed. It was based on the delict of negligent misstatement. The company suffered the loss, not the shareholders. It is a bedrock principle of company law in South Africa that shareholders have no personal claim for damages in these circumstances; only the company suffering the loss has a claim against the third party causing the loss.

 

Shareholders benefit from limited liability and are not, except in very exceptional circumstances, liable for the debts incurred by the company. The corollary of this limited liability is limited rights. Because a shareholder is normally not exposed to the liabilities of a company, it is normally not the beneficiary of claims accruing to the company.

 

This clarity about the limitations of section 218(2) is very welcome because it will discourage all-comers seeking remedies under the section."

[DayTraderDad]

Scope of the PwC Investigation

PwC was asked to assist with an investigation into the occurrence of potential

accounting irregularities, or potential non-compliance with laws and regulations

impacting on Steinhoff’s financial statements.

 

From today's presentation:

 

Findings:

• Subject to legal privilege, confidential

• Is not an audit – Deloitte (external auditor) granted access

• Focused on accounting irregularities; not legal advice or opinions

 

We all are talking fraud but this has not been ruled so I guess until such time a court rules fraud  it can only be classified as accounting irregularities.

[DayTraderDad]

Now that fraud is finally confirmed (and so not "accounting irregularities"), the lawyers will make sure that Steinhoff will pay the maximum compensation for all the aggrieved share holders.

In my opinion Steinhoff should compensate all the shareholders that lost their money on Steinhoff (worthless shares) up till the date when they finally announced that there was fraud (which is 15-Mar-2019).

The remaining assets of Steinhoff are estimated to be less than 18 billion Euros, and will probably still suffer more impairments as a result of inserting the 6.5 billion Euros of fake income fraud, plus all the still coming PwC auditing and legal costs, regulatory fines, management salaries, and the huge debt services.

Currently the remaining assets of Steinhoff cannot generate the outrageous 10% interest rate for the creditors, but can give the aggrieved share holders some compensation on their huge losses (estimated to be more than 13 billion Euros).

The share holders lawyers must work fast in order to reach a court order for the compensation against Steinhoff as a priority, before the creditors suck it dry.

Where is the fraud confirm? Which court confirmed that?

[Tom]

Now that fraud is finally confirmed (and so not "accounting irregularities"), the lawyers will make sure that Steinhoff will pay the maximum compensation for all the aggrieved share holders.

In my opinion Steinhoff should compensate all the shareholders that lost their money on Steinhoff (worthless shares) up till the date when they finally announced that there was fraud (which is 15-Mar-2019).

The remaining assets of Steinhoff are estimated to be less than 18 billion Euros, and will probably still suffer more impairments as a result of inserting the 6.5 billion Euros of fake income fraud, plus all the still coming PwC auditing and legal costs, regulatory fines, management salaries, and the huge debt services.

Currently the remaining assets of Steinhoff cannot generate the outrageous 10% interest rate for the creditors, but can give the aggrieved share holders some compensation on their huge losses (estimated to be more than 13 billion Euros).

The share holders lawyers must work fast in order to reach a court order for the compensation against Steinhoff as a priority, before the creditors suck it dry.

Edited by Tom, 19 March 2019 - 06:25 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

[Tom]

From:

https://ewn.co.za/20...raud-corruption

While Steinhoff management had said they had had the right not to, (did they really think such can go).

"

.

Preez then said Steinhoff was still weighing up whether or not to hand it over.

Du Preez was also instructed by finance committee chairperson Yunus Carrim to divulge the names ...

.

"

Edited by Tom, 19 March 2019 - 05:11 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

"The individuals involved in those entities are four individuals firstly Mr Siegmar Schmidt who was until 2012, the CFO of Steinhoff Europe. He left the employ of Steinhoff Europe. The other three individuals are Mr Alan Evans, Mr Jean-Noel Pasquier and Mr Romano."

[DayTraderDad]

Lionel listen to this it will tell you what I mean: http://www.702.co.za...ound-the-corner

[DayTraderDad]

   

DTD, try to understand this ok, accountants/internal auditors do NOT cook figures for the fun of it, they get paid to do a job and if they have a decent qualification/experience they do it well ......i leave the rest for your imagination as dangerous as that sounds

Ho no there was no fun at all it was greed lots of money and lots of people with serious financial losses. Do you really still believe that MJ would go to the office at night with the CFO and change the figures before the accountant team came to work in the morning? Further do you really believe in the Steinhoff accounting team there was not one single accountant being well trained like you mention that would not realise there is something amiss and inform the authorities as it is required by the code of conduct of accountants?

I know of accountants with high integrity and they would have never done or allowed this to happen. I am talking about the greedy ones. Just get real go and do a search of how many audit firms are implicated with dodgy audits. Deloitte did the very same thing in 2002 got sue by VEB and is busy settling only to find itself one more time if the sights of VEB. Does that not ring any bells for you!!

[Lionelza1]

 

Further Polly I have been saying it was impossible for MJ to cook the the figures without accountants and today the proof is out.

 

DTD, try to understand this ok, accountants/internal auditors do NOT cook figures for the fun of it, they get paid to do a job and if they have a decent qualification/experience they do it well ......i leave the rest for your imagination as dangerous as that sounds

[DayTraderDad]

Not so long ago the CFO that could only read spreadsheets did not know anything at the time but today he got vision. Hahaha I love this story with all the claims auditor are getting they should start doing audit from jail.

Further Polly I have been saying it was impossible for MJ to cook the the figures without accountants and today the proof is out.