15225 replies to this topic

[Polly]

Buy then... Buy... Pls buy... Will throw in a furniture store...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

Risk too high for me...better r/r is to join them as an employee and fill pockets!!

[DayTraderDad]

Nah I wouldn't encourage you to leave u add character.... Take a leaf out of bubbles book... Don't take it personally. Just try to me more convincing..... Pop that green beer every now and then haha

Haha thanks to JK001 comment " Lastly, don't get sucked into arguments with wafflers, they will sour your day and divert your attention from your initial purpose of joining the forum."  While having my green beer decided will continue to post information (even though was called a conman because I am a day trader by uneducated person which has no clue what trading is about) because the only reason I joined was to share, read, educated relevant unbiased correct information and will ignore fake news waffle because it serves no purpose.

[andi222]

Great addition to the management team announced today. Also positive reaction from the market. Moving average 100 is stable at around 175. If we can just break 178 (MA 200) we good to go to 182. Maybe this is possible until tomorrow. Lets see

[Investment novice]

Buy then... Buy... Pls buy... Will throw in a furniture store...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Polly]

 

a quick summary from last year this time :

 

 

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•  
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• 0 Comments

It was one of the best performing companies in Africa and investors loved it. No other retailer has been able to do what Steinhoff did. In just three years, Steinhoff grew from a humble South African furniture retailer, with some European assets, into a global giant. It has more than 12,000 stores in 30 countries over five continents, employing 130,000.

It was the fruit of an acquisition spree that began with the purchase of pan-African Pepkor Holdings for $5.7 billion. Then came Poundland in the UK for $925 million, Fantastic Holdings in Australia at $275 million and Mattress Firm in the US at $2.4 billion. Steinhoff earned itself a spot on the top 50 global shares to watch in 2017 by Bloomberg Intelligence.

By the end of 2017, it all turned into a nightmare.

In 2017, Steinhoff International reported a 13% rise in half-year operating profit and a 48% jump in revenue as recent acquisitions sustained sales in 2017. Not even an investigation could derail the Steinhoff train.

“Excluding the recent strategic acquisitions, the company’s retail business achieved total organic revenue of 7.2 billion euros amidst volatile markets and currencies, translating to 9% organic growth,” Steinhoff said in a statement in June.

A mere five months later, it all came crashing down and the share price told the tale.

On Tuesday December 5, Steinhoff’s share price opened at R45.65 on the JSE and by Friday December 8, it had fallen to a R7.77; down about 80% in just three days.

READ MORE: South African Billionaire’s Fortune Plunges More Than $2 Billion In A Day Amid Accounting Scandal

The match that lit the fuse was the abrupt resignation of its multi-millionaire CEO Markus Jooste, on December 5; followed by its auditor, Deloitte, that refused to sign off financial statements, and the head of Steinhoff Africa Retail (Star), Ben la Grange, also calling it quits.

The fraud allegations, that began about two years before, had come back to haunt them.

The fuel for the fire was a report by Viceroy Research, a US-based investment company that has forensic accountants who probe into suspicious financial results. According to Viceroy Research, Steinhoff made some of its money through off-balance-sheet entities inflating earnings and obscuring losses.

The biggest red flag was its acquisition of poor and struggling companies whose performance appeared to quickly improve after acquisition.

Among them, according to Viceroy, are Campion Capital, controlled by Jooste’s associate George Alan Evans; Southern View Finance UK, controlled by billionaire and FORBES AFRICA cover Christo Wiese; and Genesis Investment Holdings, controlled by former Steinhoff CEO/CFO Siegmar Schmidt.

“Steinhoff has issued expensive loans to and booked interest revenue against Campion subsidiaries for the purchase of loss-making Steinhoff subsidiaries. These revenues will never translate to cash… Steinhoff has also moved two loss-making and predatory consumer loan providers to off-balance-sheet entities: JD Consumer Finance and Capfin,” says Viceroy.

“Given these loss-making entities, such as Southern View Finance UK, are being round tripped (a form of barter that involves a company selling an unused asset to another company, while at the same time agreeing to buy back the same or similar assets at about the same price) back to Steinhoff, Viceroy believes it is possible that Steinhoff are ‘repaying’ Campion’s outlays through acquisition premiums (i.e. losses are being capitalized through round-trip transactions with related parties).”

READ MORE: Did Steinhoff’s board structure contribute to the scandal?

Byron Lotter, Portfolio Manager at Vestact Asset Management, agrees.

“They were creating off-balance-sheet entities and putting underperforming assets into those entities. For example, it seems like when they bought JD Group, they managed to find a buyer for the R10 billion debt book that came along with JD Group. It seems like that buyer was one of these off-balance-sheet entities that Steinhoff itself owned,” he says.

Markus Jooste (Photo by Gallo Images/ Sunday Times/Raymond Preston)

There are also allegations of tax manipulation cash flow trends that do not correspond to EBITDA, investigations into senior executives for tax-evasion, document forgery and fraud, and rampant and dilutive equity raising. It caused the Steinhoff stock to tank.

One of the allegations is from the 2016 annual report, where Jooste writes that the tax rate will remain around 15% and, according to Zwelakhe Mnguni, a Chief Investment Officer at Benguela Global Fund Managers, if you are a company that operates in a 28% jurisdiction, it’s impossible to maintain a 15% tax rate on an annual basis.

“You are not investing in capital expenditure which would have allowed you to get tax deductions which lowers your tax, so how do you get 15%? The net asset value of the business was also in the negative… there are a lot of things we don’t know and somebody somewhere knows the hole is bigger,” says Mnguni.

Steinhoff’s complex balance sheet blinded many investors with inflated earnings. There were many signs over the years but people missed them. Some analysts asked why Steinhoff’s accounts lacked important information about where it was generating revenue and why it appeared to focus on tax breaks rather than the actual business.

READ MORE: Steinhoff scandal points to major gaps in stopping unethical behaviour

Very few people saw this coming. David Shapiro, Deputy Chairman at Sasfin Securities, is one of them.

“What we were seeing with former CEO Markus Jooste was that he will go for one company, miss it, and the next day he goes for another and that’s how he ended up with Mattress Firm, Poundland and other smaller businesses in Europe and an acquisition in Australia,” he says.

Shapiro says he stayed away from Steinhoff because he could never get to grips with what the company was doing.

“It was a moving giant making it never stable enough to make a comparison. I told myself I’m holding back from investing until I understand what the business is. I also found out that they were very opportunistic. They would do a deal then form a structure against it. The strategy kept changing.”

Retail analyst Syd Vianello concurs.

He says Steinhoff’s European operating companies have operating margins that appear to be realistic but the income they are declaring from the internal and external supply chain look “a bit on the high side”.

“I don’t know to what extent they could have been manipulated. The income on the properties also appear to be a little on the high side but there are properties which are rented out to third parties, therefore there is a level of income from the properties,” says Vianello.

“The figures I think are questionable are the interest income that they get from these loans they have been making appear manipulated. The American operations like Mattress Firm, I don’t think are making money at all.”

Vianello says Steinhoff will need more money to service debt. Steinhoff has debt worth about $13 billion on its balance sheet.

“My personal opinion is that the banks are going to demand that they sell Mattress Firm. My gut feel is that the management there will try to do a management buyout (a transaction where a company’s management team purchases the assets and operations of the business they manage) backed by some venture capitalists,” he says.

It would possibly mean Steinhoff wouldn’t get money they put into Mattress Firm back – a devastating loss.

Steinhoff is already scouring for liquidity to keep itself alive. It has sold its 2006 Gulfstream G550 private jet and has also sold a stake in South African investment holding company PSG Group, raising about $345 million.

The big question is how did Deloitte, an auditing firm that has been in operation since 1845, sign off on Steinhoff’s 2016 results?

According to Lotter, one of the reasons may be that Jooste was a powerful bully who many were afraid of.

“He was very smart and managed to convince a lot of people that what he was doing was within the law,” he says.

READ MORE: Anger At The Corporate Slippery Slope

Jooste and Wiese are part of South Africa’s so-called Stellenbosch Mafia – a group of billionaires who own winelands and control markets.

The Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors (IRBA) says, for this, it is investigating Deloitte South Africa.

Deloitte has refused to comment on the matter stating confidentiality obligations and the ongoing investigations as a reason.

The JSE, Africa’s biggest stock exchange, headquartered in Sandton, also appears to have missed the accounting irregularities at Steinhoff.

Even after the cat was out of the bag, the JSE did not suspend Steinhoff’s trade. It says it would be unfair to investors for them to do so as the Frankfurt Stock Exchange has not suspended trading in Steinhoff International shares and would place investors trading on the JSE at a disadvantage to those who are able to trade the Steinhoff International share in Frankfurt.

“We believe that under the circumstances where Steinhoff International has disclosed as much price sensitive information as it is able to, it would be detrimental to the interest of investors to prevent them from trading Steinhoff International shares on the JSE,” says the exchange.

It, however, was detrimental to many investors and hit many more people in the street.

The Public Investment Corporation (PIC) – which manages pensions of government employees – is one of the biggest investors in Steinhoff. It has already lost billions in retirement savings. At the time of going to press, the PIC’s 8.56% stake was just R3.6 billion ($290 million) compared to R20 billion ($1.6 billion) a week before scandal broke.

 

“The specific mandate of the FSB in this area, according to the FMA (Financial Markets Act) is to investigate cases of insider trading, price manipulation, and false reporting. This engagement with the JSE will determine what case, if any, the FSB ought to look into,” says Tembisa Marele, Communications Specialist at the FSB.

Christoff Wiese (Photo by Jay Caboz)

The billionaire who lost the most is Wiese. Between the night of December 5 and the afternoon on December 6, he had lost $2.1 billion. His total net worth has dropped from $5.5 billion, one the FORBES’ 2017 African billionaires list, to $1.1 billion on this year’s.

“This is the most dramatic that I can remember. There was a guy in Brazil who was worth $30 billion and then eventually had a negative net worth but it took a longer time for that to happen. This is the fastest drop I have ever seen in the two decades I have been looking at billionaires at FORBES,” says FORBES Assistant Managing Editor, Kerry Dolan.

Lotter says its doubtful Wiese knew what was happening.

“I’m of the opinion that Wiese didn’t know. Who in their right mind would go and build what he built with Pepkor and Shoprite and then go and put it all in a company where the CEO was cooking the books. He is a smart guy and he wouldn’t purposefully do that,” says Lotter.

Everyone is waiting to see what Wiese and Jooste are going to do next. Whoever dared invest in a share?

 

 

Perfect PYRAMID scheme!!!

[Polly]

Company subsidiaries already getting support in their own markets, eg. mattress firm may rekindle business relationships.
Following restructuring shareholders will certainly be worse off giving a huge chunk of the businesses to the creditors and having debt on the books. However when I say worse off... It's in reality only compared to your situation in mid 2017. Current shareholders and new shareholders will be better off... Half of a pie is better than no pie, even if you think you will get food poisoning or if vultures circle.vultures may think they have claim to the pie. But may have to settle for some scraps after a long battle....
My personal view, I think this share will reach 10% of its former glory if not 8%...and can see this share easy r3.5 to 4.5 and even more if frankfurt buyers return and this penny stocks reaches at least 36 cents euro. Will see some ups and downs with all the news... Watch volumes...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

IN Top management too busy with more important restructuring deals, loan agreements etc than to worry about day to day running of this vast network...

In meantime free for all as far as im concerned....

[DayTraderDad]

STEINHOFF – NOMINATION TO THE STEINHOFF SUPERVISORY BOARD

Steinhoff International Holdings N.V. (“Steinhoff”)

Steinhoff announces today that its Supervisory Board has nominated David Pauker for

appointment to the Supervisory Board for a period from Steinhoff’s next general meeting of

shareholders until the close of the annual general meeting of shareholders to be held in 2023.

Upon approval by the general meeting, David Pauker will serve as an independent supervisory

director. Until his appointment, he will, however, be entitled to attend meetings of the

Supervisory Board and its committees in an advisory capacity.

David has more than 25 years of experience as a financial advisor and turnaround manager

working with companies facing difficult decisions in transformative environments. He previously

managed a leading U.S. restructuring advisory practice.

Heather Sonn, Chairperson of the Supervisory Board of Steinhoff, stated “Steinhoff welcomes

the nomination of David Pauker to the Supervisory Board. David has an impressive track record.

We are delighted that he has agreed to join Steinhoff and we look forward to his contribution.”

The nomination will be submitted to the General Meeting for appointment in due course.

[Polly]

a quick summary from last year this time :

 

 

•  
•  
•  
• 0 Comments

It was one of the best performing companies in Africa and investors loved it. No other retailer has been able to do what Steinhoff did. In just three years, Steinhoff grew from a humble South African furniture retailer, with some European assets, into a global giant. It has more than 12,000 stores in 30 countries over five continents, employing 130,000.

It was the fruit of an acquisition spree that began with the purchase of pan-African Pepkor Holdings for $5.7 billion. Then came Poundland in the UK for $925 million, Fantastic Holdings in Australia at $275 million and Mattress Firm in the US at $2.4 billion. Steinhoff earned itself a spot on the top 50 global shares to watch in 2017 by Bloomberg Intelligence.

By the end of 2017, it all turned into a nightmare.

In 2017, Steinhoff International reported a 13% rise in half-year operating profit and a 48% jump in revenue as recent acquisitions sustained sales in 2017. Not even an investigation could derail the Steinhoff train.

“Excluding the recent strategic acquisitions, the company’s retail business achieved total organic revenue of 7.2 billion euros amidst volatile markets and currencies, translating to 9% organic growth,” Steinhoff said in a statement in June.

A mere five months later, it all came crashing down and the share price told the tale.

On Tuesday December 5, Steinhoff’s share price opened at R45.65 on the JSE and by Friday December 8, it had fallen to a R7.77; down about 80% in just three days.

READ MORE: South African Billionaire’s Fortune Plunges More Than $2 Billion In A Day Amid Accounting Scandal

The match that lit the fuse was the abrupt resignation of its multi-millionaire CEO Markus Jooste, on December 5; followed by its auditor, Deloitte, that refused to sign off financial statements, and the head of Steinhoff Africa Retail (Star), Ben la Grange, also calling it quits.

The fraud allegations, that began about two years before, had come back to haunt them.

The fuel for the fire was a report by Viceroy Research, a US-based investment company that has forensic accountants who probe into suspicious financial results. According to Viceroy Research, Steinhoff made some of its money through off-balance-sheet entities inflating earnings and obscuring losses.

The biggest red flag was its acquisition of poor and struggling companies whose performance appeared to quickly improve after acquisition.

Among them, according to Viceroy, are Campion Capital, controlled by Jooste’s associate George Alan Evans; Southern View Finance UK, controlled by billionaire and FORBES AFRICA cover Christo Wiese; and Genesis Investment Holdings, controlled by former Steinhoff CEO/CFO Siegmar Schmidt.

“Steinhoff has issued expensive loans to and booked interest revenue against Campion subsidiaries for the purchase of loss-making Steinhoff subsidiaries. These revenues will never translate to cash… Steinhoff has also moved two loss-making and predatory consumer loan providers to off-balance-sheet entities: JD Consumer Finance and Capfin,” says Viceroy.

“Given these loss-making entities, such as Southern View Finance UK, are being round tripped (a form of barter that involves a company selling an unused asset to another company, while at the same time agreeing to buy back the same or similar assets at about the same price) back to Steinhoff, Viceroy believes it is possible that Steinhoff are ‘repaying’ Campion’s outlays through acquisition premiums (i.e. losses are being capitalized through round-trip transactions with related parties).”

READ MORE: Did Steinhoff’s board structure contribute to the scandal?

Byron Lotter, Portfolio Manager at Vestact Asset Management, agrees.

“They were creating off-balance-sheet entities and putting underperforming assets into those entities. For example, it seems like when they bought JD Group, they managed to find a buyer for the R10 billion debt book that came along with JD Group. It seems like that buyer was one of these off-balance-sheet entities that Steinhoff itself owned,” he says.

Markus Jooste (Photo by Gallo Images/ Sunday Times/Raymond Preston)

There are also allegations of tax manipulation cash flow trends that do not correspond to EBITDA, investigations into senior executives for tax-evasion, document forgery and fraud, and rampant and dilutive equity raising. It caused the Steinhoff stock to tank.

One of the allegations is from the 2016 annual report, where Jooste writes that the tax rate will remain around 15% and, according to Zwelakhe Mnguni, a Chief Investment Officer at Benguela Global Fund Managers, if you are a company that operates in a 28% jurisdiction, it’s impossible to maintain a 15% tax rate on an annual basis.

“You are not investing in capital expenditure which would have allowed you to get tax deductions which lowers your tax, so how do you get 15%? The net asset value of the business was also in the negative… there are a lot of things we don’t know and somebody somewhere knows the hole is bigger,” says Mnguni.

Steinhoff’s complex balance sheet blinded many investors with inflated earnings. There were many signs over the years but people missed them. Some analysts asked why Steinhoff’s accounts lacked important information about where it was generating revenue and why it appeared to focus on tax breaks rather than the actual business.

READ MORE: Steinhoff scandal points to major gaps in stopping unethical behaviour

Very few people saw this coming. David Shapiro, Deputy Chairman at Sasfin Securities, is one of them.

“What we were seeing with former CEO Markus Jooste was that he will go for one company, miss it, and the next day he goes for another and that’s how he ended up with Mattress Firm, Poundland and other smaller businesses in Europe and an acquisition in Australia,” he says.

Shapiro says he stayed away from Steinhoff because he could never get to grips with what the company was doing.

“It was a moving giant making it never stable enough to make a comparison. I told myself I’m holding back from investing until I understand what the business is. I also found out that they were very opportunistic. They would do a deal then form a structure against it. The strategy kept changing.”

Retail analyst Syd Vianello concurs.

He says Steinhoff’s European operating companies have operating margins that appear to be realistic but the income they are declaring from the internal and external supply chain look “a bit on the high side”.

“I don’t know to what extent they could have been manipulated. The income on the properties also appear to be a little on the high side but there are properties which are rented out to third parties, therefore there is a level of income from the properties,” says Vianello.

“The figures I think are questionable are the interest income that they get from these loans they have been making appear manipulated. The American operations like Mattress Firm, I don’t think are making money at all.”

Vianello says Steinhoff will need more money to service debt. Steinhoff has debt worth about $13 billion on its balance sheet.

“My personal opinion is that the banks are going to demand that they sell Mattress Firm. My gut feel is that the management there will try to do a management buyout (a transaction where a company’s management team purchases the assets and operations of the business they manage) backed by some venture capitalists,” he says.

It would possibly mean Steinhoff wouldn’t get money they put into Mattress Firm back – a devastating loss.

Steinhoff is already scouring for liquidity to keep itself alive. It has sold its 2006 Gulfstream G550 private jet and has also sold a stake in South African investment holding company PSG Group, raising about $345 million.

The big question is how did Deloitte, an auditing firm that has been in operation since 1845, sign off on Steinhoff’s 2016 results?

According to Lotter, one of the reasons may be that Jooste was a powerful bully who many were afraid of.

“He was very smart and managed to convince a lot of people that what he was doing was within the law,” he says.

READ MORE: Anger At The Corporate Slippery Slope

Jooste and Wiese are part of South Africa’s so-called Stellenbosch Mafia – a group of billionaires who own winelands and control markets.

The Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors (IRBA) says, for this, it is investigating Deloitte South Africa.

Deloitte has refused to comment on the matter stating confidentiality obligations and the ongoing investigations as a reason.

The JSE, Africa’s biggest stock exchange, headquartered in Sandton, also appears to have missed the accounting irregularities at Steinhoff.

Even after the cat was out of the bag, the JSE did not suspend Steinhoff’s trade. It says it would be unfair to investors for them to do so as the Frankfurt Stock Exchange has not suspended trading in Steinhoff International shares and would place investors trading on the JSE at a disadvantage to those who are able to trade the Steinhoff International share in Frankfurt.

“We believe that under the circumstances where Steinhoff International has disclosed as much price sensitive information as it is able to, it would be detrimental to the interest of investors to prevent them from trading Steinhoff International shares on the JSE,” says the exchange.

It, however, was detrimental to many investors and hit many more people in the street.

The Public Investment Corporation (PIC) – which manages pensions of government employees – is one of the biggest investors in Steinhoff. It has already lost billions in retirement savings. At the time of going to press, the PIC’s 8.56% stake was just R3.6 billion ($290 million) compared to R20 billion ($1.6 billion) a week before scandal broke.

 

“The specific mandate of the FSB in this area, according to the FMA (Financial Markets Act) is to investigate cases of insider trading, price manipulation, and false reporting. This engagement with the JSE will determine what case, if any, the FSB ought to look into,” says Tembisa Marele, Communications Specialist at the FSB.

Christoff Wiese (Photo by Jay Caboz)

The billionaire who lost the most is Wiese. Between the night of December 5 and the afternoon on December 6, he had lost $2.1 billion. His total net worth has dropped from $5.5 billion, one the FORBES’ 2017 African billionaires list, to $1.1 billion on this year’s.

“This is the most dramatic that I can remember. There was a guy in Brazil who was worth $30 billion and then eventually had a negative net worth but it took a longer time for that to happen. This is the fastest drop I have ever seen in the two decades I have been looking at billionaires at FORBES,” says FORBES Assistant Managing Editor, Kerry Dolan.

Lotter says its doubtful Wiese knew what was happening.

“I’m of the opinion that Wiese didn’t know. Who in their right mind would go and build what he built with Pepkor and Shoprite and then go and put it all in a company where the CEO was cooking the books. He is a smart guy and he wouldn’t purposefully do that,” says Lotter.

Everyone is waiting to see what Wiese and Jooste are going to do next. Whoever dared invest in a share?

[Investment novice]

Being a while since I posted since there are a couple of know-it-all prima donnas on the forum that if so clever could start their own blogspot and with their fantastic know-it-all will make millions from likewise idiotic followers, but alas muddles every topic with fake news. They know who they are so no mention of names necessary, and surely their idiotic comments will prevail and entertain us all (positive or negative).
Example: apparent CA's that make decisions on 'gut', likely fired then as CA for making 'gut' financial reporting statements. Rightfully pointed out by Captain, an apparently educated person with no pension plan - in other words work or scam till death do us part and even created an advise topic - blind leading the stupid.
Then you have people who seriously run the numbers (as it should be), that gives factual advise that newbies can actually learn from. Eventually these true masters are getting abuse fatigue an leave the forum and the one-eyed is king.
As important as the financial numbers and the NAV (Euro 0,54) pointed out by DAD there is probably some sentiment you need to take into consideration. Thus, assume some penalty in the first period (which i cannot factually say how long) the share price will not be close to the NAV. For those who long the share over time that sentiment will improve (all things equal) and you have a real winner.
Lastly, don't get sucked into arguments with wafflers, they will sour your day and divert your attention from your initial purpose of joining the forum.

Company subsidiaries already getting support in their own markets, eg. mattress firm may rekindle business relationships.
Following restructuring shareholders will certainly be worse off giving a huge chunk of the businesses to the creditors and having debt on the books. However when I say worse off... It's in reality only compared to your situation in mid 2017. Current shareholders and new shareholders will be better off... Half of a pie is better than no pie, even if you think you will get food poisoning or if vultures circle.vultures may think they have claim to the pie. But may have to settle for some scraps after a long battle....
My personal view, I think this share will reach 10% of its former glory if not 8%...and can see this share easy r3.5 to 4.5 and even more if frankfurt buyers return and this penny stocks reaches at least 36 cents euro. Will see some ups and downs with all the news... Watch volumes...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Polly]

https://www.bisnow.c...cre-execs-96718

There you go...

 

Didnt i warn about this re escom?   less said the better!!

 

wonder how many other subsidiaries this is happening in....Piano playing at  the tills...

[Tom]

https://www.bisnow.c...cre-execs-96718

[Tom]

http://www.capetalk....rmanus-property

[Tom]

https://www.business...h-africa-2019-1

[Lionelza1]

Nah I wouldn't encourage you to leave u add character.... Take a leaf out of bubbles book... Don't take it personally. Just try to me more convincing..... Pop that green beer every now and then haha

[Lionelza1]

Hi Cappy, thank you for your response it is much appreciated. It has given me insight and knowledge on certain aspects, however, I am not entirely convinced.

Steinhoff finds itself in a position of weakness, they do not have negotiating power, I feel they are not in a position to dictate, to their suppliers, to their creditors, I feel it's evident in the delay of pwc report, granted it is a complex situation, but if they suppliers are not delivering it raises that question... Who is in control?, to me its not steinhoff. I have a different view when u said all businesses are at the mercy to their creditors... when your business is financially sound, it is the creditors that come knocking on ur door daily to sell u their products as they WANT your business and you have that power to negotiate and most cases you dictate certain terms and conditions, this does not seem the case with steinhoff.

I have taken the short term gamble on this share. The more steinhoff delays the info the market awaits, the more hammering this share will receive. As for the long run... I feel way way too much uncertainty there,the AFS will be telling tho

This is my view, however, I do not "diss" your view in its entirety, I believe they have done well thus far in their restructuring

[JK001]

Being a while since I posted since there are a couple of know-it-all prima donnas on the forum that if so clever could start their own blogspot and with their fantastic know-it-all will make millions from likewise idiotic followers, but alas muddles every topic with fake news.  They know who they are so no mention of names necessary, and surely their idiotic comments will prevail and entertain us all (positive or negative).

Example: apparent CA's that make decisions on 'gut', likely fired then as CA for making 'gut' financial reporting statements. Rightfully pointed out by Captain, an apparently educated person with no pension plan - in other words work or scam till death do us part and even created an advise topic - blind leading the stupid.

Then you have people who seriously run the numbers (as it should be), that gives factual advise that newbies can actually learn from.  Eventually these true masters are getting abuse fatigue an leave the forum and the one-eyed is king.

As important as the financial numbers and the NAV (Euro 0,54) pointed out by DAD there is probably some sentiment you need to take into consideration.  Thus, assume some penalty in the first period (which i cannot factually say how long) the share price will not be close to the NAV.  For those who long the share over time that sentiment will improve (all things equal) and you have a real winner.

Lastly, don't get sucked into arguments with wafflers, they will sour your day and divert your attention from your initial purpose of joining the forum.

[DayTraderDad]

The difference between fake news and a opinion in investing is fake news is comments made either positive or negative with the person making the news not being fully informed while a opinion is done by a person that has good knowledge of the company information. So this idea that a person can have a opinion of SNH without even reading the most important piece of information like financials and LUA agreement is nothing but pure fake news.

To give a example Tom yesterday put out a post for opinion on Group5, Pick $ Pay and Murray Roberts I did not reply because I do have an opinion about the construction sector and the food retails but don't have enough insight into the financial models and my opinion would be simply speculative and uninformed which in today's terms is called fake news.

 

I am leaving this chatroom because when I joined was expecting to have a truthful exchange of information however all its seems to have is lots of fake news.

I will be back however to congratulate POLLY on the SNH ZERO share price in the near future.

 

Enough said a interesting article below for the so called pumper and dumpers!!! One more time Warren Buffet warns about fake news agents.

 

Warren Buffett says this is one way to not get rich on Wall Street

"You really should not make decisions in securities based on what other people think," Warren Buffett says.

Instead, do your own homework on companies you feel like you can evaluate better than others, the legendary investor says.

Try not to to listen to macroeconomic calls either when making individual stock decisions: "You cannot get rich with a weather vane."

Legendary investor Warren Buffett has a tip for investors trying to get rich on Wall Street through a hot tip: It won't work, so do your own work.

 

"I mean, on any given day, two million shares of Coca-Cola may trade," the 'Oracle of Omaha' explained to a captive audience at the 1994 Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting. "That's a lot of people selling, a lot of people buying. If you talk to one person, you'd hear one thing... you really should not make decisions in securities based on what other people think."

 

"A public opinion poll will just — it will not get you rich on Wall Street," Buffett told his throng of followers.

 

While this advice was given more than two decades ago, it holds true now more than ever with the prevalence of social media. There are a lot of opinions out there now and more news than ever for investors to sort through.

Buffett's advice is to counter this noise by sticking with companies you feel like you know and have an advantage over others in evaluating.

 

"So you really want to stick with businesses that you feel you can somehow evaluate yourself," he said at the meeting.

Following his own advice has paid off for the Chairman and CEO Berkshire Hathaway. By poring through annual reports and other filings, Buffett's stock allocation decisions and outright acquisitions through all kinds of difficult market environments have driven Berkshire's stock price up by 12 percent annually the last 25 years, better than the stock market's 9 percent annual total return over that same time frame, according to Factset.

 

'You cannot get rich with a weather vane'

With market volatility increasing after a 9-year bull market where stocks seemed to all just go up, investors may need to return to their stock-picking roots this year, while heeding Buffett's advice.

 

Buffett and his long-time business partner Charlie Munger said they especially try to not make big predictions on the direction of the overall economy and stock market nor let the forecasts from others on those macroeconomic matters influence their individual stock decisions.

 

"You cannot get rich with a weather vane," Buffett said at the meeting.

 

[DayTraderDad]

some inserts of mine did not come out in red....too late to edit...sorry 

 

You see once again like DAD you read what you want to read or completely misunderstand  and try to mislead what i wrote.. Have i invested in Steinhoff? I told you No...Why would i then have to go and do a financial model, check afs , check lockup agreemet etc etc if im not interested in investing here. Does this mean i dont do this when im investing in another share that i am comfortable with?? Of cos yes thats why i have a long term portfolio.  Now where did i say all these people are incorrect? I said i came this conclusion being a s/w investor and they came to same conclusion by dumping the share..their modess, spreadsheeets etc etc with detailed investigations came to same result as i got in 5 min...Doesnt mean im brilliant at investing , means ive been there with experience and done that.

 

 

Nothing incorrect about that ..Its just an opinion...Your view/opinion is thats its an uninformed opinion....and will only be ur view..Others beg to differ

 

 

 

 

Totally totally incorrect....For every pump there will be a dump. Dont jump into the negative comment bandwagon with DAD...cos you jus tbecomming  another pumper.Everybody here is entitled to a view but when okes get personal and name call then you know what their motives are here. 

I was going to ignor all this noise but since my name mention here my 5 cts:

It is the first time in my trading that I get people always talking about pumping and dumping so went to investigate and below the explanation from WIKIPEDIA:

Pump and dump

 

"The "night singer of shares" sold stock on the streets during the South Sea Bubble. Amsterdam, 1720.

"Pump and dump" (P&D) is a form of securities fraud that involves artificially inflating the price of an owned stock through false and misleading positive statements, in order to sell the cheaply purchased stock at a higher price. Once the operators of the scheme "dump" sell their overvalued shares, the price falls and investors lose their money. This is most common with small cap cryptocurrencies and very small corporations, i.e. "microcaps".[1] See Microcap stock fraud.

 

While fraudsters in the past relied on cold calls, the Internet now offers a cheaper and easier way of reaching large numbers of potential investors through spam email, bad data, social media, and false information. "

 

Now the red is the part that interests me, why? because that exactly that is happening here uninformed biased information being posted without backup talking a share to ZERO without any proper figures to show for it. So in short you are not much different to Jooste that is if he did in fact commit fraud which is still to be proved. 

This is my lost post not interested in irrelevant discussions!!!

[Polly]

Heres what u wanted huh..

some inserts of mine did not come out in red....too late to edit...sorry 

 

You see once again like DAD you read what you want to read or completely misunderstand  and try to mislead what i wrote.. Have i invested in Steinhoff? I told you No...Why would i then have to go and do a financial model, check afs , check lockup agreemet etc etc if im not interested in investing here. Does this mean i dont do this when im investing in another share that i am comfortable with?? Of cos yes thats why i have a long term portfolio.  Now where did i say all these people are incorrect? I said i came this conclusion being a s/w investor and they came to same conclusion by dumping the share..their modess, spreadsheeets etc etc with detailed investigations came to same result as i got in 5 min...Doesnt mean im brilliant at investing , means ive been there with experience and done that.

 

 

Nothing incorrect about that ..Its just an opinion...Your view/opinion is thats its an uninformed opinion....and will only be ur view..Others beg to differ

 

 

 

 

Totally totally incorrect....For every pump there will be a dump. Dont jump into the negative comment bandwagon with DAD...cos you jus tbecomming  another pumper.Everybody here is entitled to a view but when okes get personal and name call then you know what their motives are here. 

Edited by Polly, 06 February 2019 - 03:58 PM.

[Polly]

 

 

 

 

So his conclusion that the results were poor is actually desperately incorrect.  The 6% growth in the current challenged trading environment in South Africa was actually very good.

 

I wonder how many people reacted to this misinformation!!!

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

could you please do me a favour and enlighten  me with my post where i categorically stated that the results were poor...

 

 

This is how members mislead the gullible.........

 

 

Either you deliberately saying that to show i misled...or you are trying to  mislead by posting that....