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Steinhoff


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#13681 Polly

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 11:29 AM

snh is an accounting farce; ifrs loopholes are exploited to manipulate results, debt sharing and interest allocations used to manipulate incomes and create tax shield.

all were legitimate and its going to be interesting to see how this will be proven as fraud in the court.

Of cos that is fraud!!!!

 

simple example again

 

If you sell goods for cash :  entry is debit bank  credit sales

 

Now ifyou do this : debit bank  credit your loan account.

 

What is this? Fraud, theft or loopholes?


Edited by Polly, 07 September 2018 - 11:32 AM.

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#13682 Investment novice

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 11:27 AM

snh is an accounting farce; ifrs loopholes are exploited to manipulate results, debt sharing and interest allocations used to manipulate incomes and create tax shield.

all were legitimate and its going to be interesting to see how this will be proven as fraud in the court. the entire EU utilises this strategy.SNH not a going concern, but as soon as restructuring agreed in a month and a half- the accounting of the debt changes and is represented in such a way that makes SNH a going concern- diabolical but legitimate.

in 12 month this share will be at R8 or even R20- why year to date numbers would have been significantly increases, impairments would be capped, and no progress on legal issues would have fatigued the dooms day predictors.

 

follow the market- superficial, play the trend, computer trading , and short term memory .

 

if the restructuring deal is not signed guess what- this company faces liquidation end October- so most investors are quite cautios of this short term risk.

 

PWC information will be bland---company will leak items in time to manage fall out- and they did the most tragic of that in H1.....limited fall out will pump this share.

 

 

 


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#13683 Ms Jet

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:58 AM

Wish this share would fond 3 rand resistance
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#13684 Lionelza1

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:45 AM

[quote name="LarryK" post="277088" timestamp="1536308694"]

Hahah....Indeed. 😂

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app[/quote]

We are all gambling here 😁😁😁[/quote]

Yes... And one shouldn't be naive with the "figures" that we're fed as it cannot be trusted and that's exactly the reason snh finds itself where it is... For all we know that q3 results is hogwash.

But.... Babbas friend is no longer there.... Snh has a good business model... Creditors are assisting which is a HUGE plus... Keeping in mind that perhaps this was their best chance of getting something back.... There is hope but that will be determined at a much much later stage.... Pwc report is just the tip of the iceberg.... Theres more to come from this closet
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#13685 Polly

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:37 AM

Thanks for your answer.
Are you still trading and/or shorting the share?

 

NO not playing it anymore . had a good run on this one so looked elsewhere

Short other retailers and banks at moment


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#13686 LarryK

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:24 AM

[quote name="leo" post="277086" timestamp="1536308592"]

Me I'm just gambling and will consider long term investment when I see AUDITED figures[/quote]

Hahah....Indeed. 😂

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app[/quote]

We are all gambling here 😁😁😁
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#13687 LarryK

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:24 AM

say it again and again..big fat 0

ZERO....


Thanks for your answer.
Are you still trading and/or shorting the share?
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#13688 leo

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:23 AM



Me I'm just gambling and will consider long term investment when I see AUDITED figures[/quote]

Hahah....Indeed. 😂

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#13689 Polly

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:23 AM

Polly what’s your honest opinion regarding snh? If you’d have to commit to a number, what do you think share price will be in 12 months from now (if there’s still a company)?

Just for interest sake...

say it again and again..big fat  0  

 

ZERO....

 

PS not in 12 months but when ever it folds.....after reports and cases...if they take more than a year then after that


Edited by Polly, 07 September 2018 - 10:24 AM.

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#13690 Lionelza1

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:20 AM


Even though I get the sense that certain people have knives out for me, this is my view.

What do we know thus far.


1/ Steinhoff: Net asset value per share is 58 Euro cents (R9) but the following uncertainties and issues need to be considered:
2/ There is uncertainty that Steinhoff is a going concern, arising from: • Financial creditor claims • Litigation claims/ disputes • Liquidity
3/ Steinhoff. Further uncertainties: • No provision for contingent liabilities is recognised or quantified (for legal reasons). • PwC investigation not yet complete. Further adjustments may come to light. • Carrying value of properties remain uncertain
4/ Steinhoff. Further issues: • €9.3b of goodwill & intangibles remain on balance sheet. • Thus tangible NAV is negative. • Cash flow is negative. • The entire supply chain is threatened as trade terms tighten. • Cost of borrowing has risen materially.
5/ Steinhoff: Operationally only Star & Pepkor Europe contribute significant profits. Conforama poor but Poundland apparently did well (Ebitda not disclosed). US is loss making. Oz is profitable, but small. Properties generated book profits, but their value remains uncertain.



More

6/ Steinhoff: It should be noted that the large current liabilities are misleading. The breach of covenants require the loans to be reclassified as current until a restructuring plan is finalised. If successful, a substantial portion will be moved back to non-current liabilities
7/ And as a final affront to shareholders, the Steinhoff company Gulfstream jet was sold at a loss of $6.3m (R86m).
The above was by Karin Richards - 30 June 2018.

Steinhoff: Equity for FY17 'restated' by €10.9b as follows: Opening bal: € 16.6b Impair goodwill -€ 2.4b Impair property -€ 1.5b Other -€ 7.0b Closing bal: € 5.7b

Steinhoff: Massive loss for the 6mths of €599m (R9.6bn). Restatements for FY16 of €10bn (R160bn). Debt at €9.4bn is 2.5 times equity. And this is not the end of it. Further write-offs, claims and tax liabilities uncertain.



2/ There is uncertainty that Steinhoff is a going concern, arising from: • Financial creditor claims • Litigation claims/ disputes • Liquidity

Point that i'm trying to get across is that it appears that the company is a going concern, esp after the LUA agreements, but there are massive unknown issues

BUT we have not fundamentals to trade on, we are ALL speculating here. People throw comments like "good feeling in my balls", those are not fundamentals :) . We have no forecasts and no solid balance sheet. But what we hunching on, is that NAV is c. R9, so even if the company takes another 50% write down of Goodwill, we still in a c. R4 to c. R5 value range for now. AND that seems like a good punt to me.

I was very surprised that Q3 sales went up, very good news are many people expected a drop due to customers scared of making deposits on eg kitchen units, as customers are worried about losing it.





More


6/ Steinhoff: It should be noted that the large current liabilities are misleading. The breach of covenants require the loans to be reclassified as current until a restructuring plan is finalised. If successful, a substantial portion will be moved back to non-current liabilities


LOL as a business person I got nothing to go on but the feeling in my balls because the paper that those "financials" are written on is not even worthy as toilet paper.... Your money leo..

Me I'm just gambling and will consider long term investment when I see AUDITED figures
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#13691 LarryK

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:20 AM

no knives..debatable forum behind a curtain..For every positive , there is a negative. Every pump there is a dump.
members must make there own decision before they invest


Polly what’s your honest opinion regarding snh? If you’d have to commit to a number, what do you think share price will be in 12 months from now (if there’s still a company)?

Just for interest sake...
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#13692 Polly

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:18 AM

 

 

 

 

 

More

6/ Steinhoff: It should be noted that the large current liabilities are misleading. The breach of covenants require the loans to be reclassified as current until a restructuring plan is finalised. If successful, a substantial portion will be moved back to non-current liabilities

 

if current or non current, makes no difference in my opinion...Still a liability..Still going concern problem


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#13693 Polly

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:16 AM

no knives..debatable forum behind a curtain..For every positive , there is a negative. Every pump there is a dump.

members must make there own decision before they invest


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#13694 Ms Jet

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:11 AM

Leo...this is a democracy.. i hope..post and say what you want or feel...i believe theres value...but as you say speculative...keep em coming.. all views of value even if we dont like them , have keep a clear overview
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#13695 leo

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 10:03 AM

Even though I get the sense that certain people have knives out for me, this is my view.

 

What do we know thus far.

 

1/ Steinhoff: Net asset value per share is 58 Euro cents (R9) but the following uncertainties and issues need to be considered:

2/ There is uncertainty that Steinhoff is a going concern, arising from: • Financial creditor claims • Litigation claims/ disputes • Liquidity

3/ Steinhoff. Further uncertainties: • No provision for contingent liabilities is recognised or quantified (for legal reasons). • PwC investigation not yet complete. Further adjustments may come to light. • Carrying value of properties remain uncertain

4/ Steinhoff. Further issues: • €9.3b of goodwill & intangibles remain on balance sheet. • Thus tangible NAV is negative. • Cash flow is negative. • The entire supply chain is threatened as trade terms tighten. • Cost of borrowing has risen materially.

5/ Steinhoff: Operationally only Star & Pepkor Europe contribute significant profits. Conforama poor but Poundland apparently did well (Ebitda not disclosed). US is loss making. Oz is profitable, but small. Properties generated book profits, but their value remains uncertain.

More

6/ Steinhoff: It should be noted that the large current liabilities are misleading. The breach of covenants require the loans to be reclassified as current until a restructuring plan is finalised. If successful, a substantial portion will be moved back to non-current liabilities

7/ And as a final affront to shareholders, the Steinhoff company Gulfstream jet was sold at a loss of $6.3m (R86m).

The above was by Karin Richards - 30 June 2018.

 

Steinhoff: Equity for FY17 'restated' by €10.9b as follows: Opening bal: € 16.6b Impair goodwill -€ 2.4b Impair property -€ 1.5b Other -€ 7.0b Closing bal: € 5.7b

 

Steinhoff: Massive loss for the 6mths of €599m (R9.6bn). Restatements for FY16 of €10bn (R160bn). Debt at €9.4bn is 2.5 times equity. And this is not the end of it. Further write-offs, claims and tax liabilities uncertain.

 

 
2/ There is uncertainty that Steinhoff is a going concern, arising from: • Financial creditor claims • Litigation claims/ disputes • Liquidity

Point that i'm trying to get across is that it appears that the company is a going concern, esp after the LUA agreements, but there are massive unknown issues

 

BUT we have not fundamentals to trade on, we are ALL speculating here. People throw comments like "good feeling in my balls", those are not fundamentals :) . We have no forecasts and no solid balance sheet. But what we hunching on, is that NAV is c. R9, so even if the company takes another 50% write down of Goodwill, we still in a c. R4 to c. R5 value range for now. AND that seems like a good punt to me.

 

I was very surprised that Q3 sales went up, very good news are many people expected a drop due to customers scared of making deposits on eg kitchen units, as customers are worried about losing it.

 

and if the liabilities are more?

 

More

6/ Steinhoff: It should be noted that the large current liabilities are misleading. The breach of covenants require the loans to be reclassified as current until a restructuring plan is finalised. If successful, a substantial portion will be moved back to non-current liabilities


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#13696 Polly

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 09:28 AM

At least there are assets (value a little cloudy) and the company is not in China....?

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and if the liabilities are more?


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#13697 leo

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 09:22 AM

Thanks for the good info! No 7 especially.
May the force be with us all today


At least there are assets (value a little cloudy) and the company is not in China....?

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#13698 LarryK

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 08:45 AM

How to spot a pump and dump scheme... (other than a sudden flurry of posts on sharechat when the price sinks)

https://www.mrpennys...nd-dump-scheme/


7-ways-to-spot-a-penny-stock-pump-and-du


Thanks for the good info! No 7 especially.
May the force be with us all today
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#13699 Snippit

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 08:34 AM

How to spot a pump and dump scheme... (other than a sudden flurry of posts on sharechat when the price sinks)

 

https://www.mrpennys...nd-dump-scheme/

 

 

7-ways-to-spot-a-penny-stock-pump-and-du


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  1. Trusting strangers on an anonymous chat forum can be a risky business. Even more risky than the stock market.
  2. I have tried to warn the vulnerable, being those without adequate savvy: e.g.: https://swrict.blogspot.com/2018/11/sharechat-warning.html
  3. Vultures circle hereabouts. Give them control and say goodbye to your money. 
  4. Learning links: http://swrict.blogspot.com/2018/11/trader-links.html

 


#13700 Lionelza1

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Posted 07 September 2018 - 07:22 AM

@ Lionelza....I will also be joining you back in pretty soon.Depends when the share price drops (if it does) and I see that there is some stability. Please share for the benefit of others exactly what youre referring to that youve learnt? :-)


Morning Woolhoff... My aim when I joined was to double my money... I bought at R1. 90 and it went to R3. 80 that's double and obviously couldn't be predicted... My f up was the buys as share rose... I learnt next time PATIENCE!! and to buy on low instead of rise, and then I didn't know as u buy share cost will be averaged. I thought there'd be different orders... But that's purely being a newbie :D

And then that buy the rumour sell the fact hahaha fckn awesome. Wish Polly mentioned that earlier.

I still feel it in my balls that I could double my money here but I wanna give my balls a breather.... Then we comming back bigger hahaha and stronger
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