35854 replies to this topic

[Mad Max]

Mafuta24, on 16 Oct 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

This is my story.....

 

After studying and being employed for some time, I seeked interest in a business venture, to generate a part-time income, apart from my 9 - 5 salary. A friend of mine, who is in the Investment industry, introduced me to IG and Top 40 as an alternative to invest in a small business.

 

I made some calculations, and decided on an amount I was willing to loose, should I terribly fail at this....... (luckily I am a info and knowledge freak and I started to study and read anything I could get my hands on).

 

Up until now, it is going okay, making more $$$ that I would have made in 10 years if I had invested in a small business. At the end of the day, Trading is much more fun, you learn a lot more, it teaches you discipline, and the best of all... YOU DETERMINE YOUR OWN SALARY   

 

So that’s me... Once again, thanks for everyone's advice and comments.

 

M

Well done. Amen to that!  Greed is the only killer and not following the overall  trend line.

[Mafuta24]

This is my story.....

 

After studying and being employed for some time, I seeked interest in a business venture, to generate a part-time income, apart from my 9 - 5 salary. A friend of mine, who is in the Investment industry, introduced me to IG and Top 40 as an alternative to invest in a small business.

 

I made some calculations, and decided on an amount I was willing to loose, should I terribly fail at this....... (luckily I am a info and knowledge freak and I started to study and read anything I could get my hands on).

 

Up until now, it is going okay, making more $$$ that I would have made in 10 years if I had invested in a small business. At the end of the day, Trading is much more fun, you learn a lot more, it teaches you discipline, and the best of all... YOU DETERMINE YOUR OWN SALARY   

 

So that’s me... Once again, thanks for everyone's advice and comments.

 

M

 

 

 

[Sunesis]

Paul Tudor Jones

That was when I first decided I had to learn discipline and money management. It was a cathartic experience for me, in the sense that I went to the edge, questioned my very ability as a trader, and decided that I was not going to quit. I was determined to come back and fight. I decided that I was going to become very disciplined and businesslike about my trading.

In the above quote, Paul Tudor Jones is reflecting on a very bad trade that he lost a lot of money on and how it drove him to be more disciplined and focus more on money management. You don’t have to wait until you have a near account-blowout trade (or an account blowout) to start managing your money properly and being disciplined. You can learn from other traders and start treating your trading as a business today.

The most important rule of trading is to play great defense, not great offense. Every day I assume every position I have is wrong. I know where my stop risk points are going to be. I do that so I can define my maximum possible drawdown. Hopefully, I spend the rest of the day enjoying positions that are going my direction. If they are going against me, then I have a game plan for getting out.

Don’t be a hero. Don’t have an ego. Always question yourself and your ability. Don’t ever feel that you are very good. The second you do, you are dead. My biggest hits have always come after I have had a great period and I started to think that I knew something.

The above quote talks about how Paul Tudor Jones focuses more on defending his capital and managing risk than on how much money he can make. If you focus on risk first then the profits will tend to take care of themselves. Also, in the second quote, he is talking about how becoming over-confident or arrogant after a series of winning trades is often the kiss of death for traders.

My major problem was not the number of points I lost on the trade, but that I was trading far too many contracts relative to the equity in the accounts that I handled. My accounts lost something like 60 to 70 percent of their equity in that single trade.

In the above quote, Tudor Jones discusses how if you risk too much relative to your account, you can lose almost all, or all of your account on one single trade. So, you’re not alone if you’re losing money, even the pros lost money while they were learning and improving. The difference is, will you learn from your big losing trades or will you continue to make the same mistakes? Pro traders like Paul Tudor Jones and others don’t typically make the same big mistake twice.

[ptomli]

Sunesis, on 16 Oct 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Its all about risk management and phycology

 

It's all about risk management, algae and seaweeds? 

[Sunesis]

Redeemer, on 16 Oct 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Another option on IG would be to enter the R4 and then trim the position once it breaks even...to say R2 per point (or even less if your capital is small)

At one point I had to rebuild my capital that way. And yes, the less the leverage relative to capital...the clearer your mind!

That's one of the trading phycology people don't understand.

People make more money in demo accounts because they don't care about the fake money. The decision making is not emotional.

If you have a low leverage, you will also have that don't care mentality which will make it seem like you are trading on a demo.

Mind will be clear.

When mind is clear money comes.

 

Just also make sure you make at least 0.5% of your account everyday.

 

Problem is people don't manage trading as business.

Over leveraging is like a shop owner pointing a gun at client and forcing them to buy. Chances are they might get arrested or end up in deep sh*T.

Same with trading over levarage you end up in more problems when you get caught.

 

Trading is not a lottery.

Its all about risk management and phycology

[Redeemer]

Another option on IG would be to enter the R4 and then trim the position once it breaks even...to say R2 per point (or even less if your capital is small)

At one point I had to rebuild my capital that way. And yes, the less the leverage relative to capital...the clearer your mind!

 

Sunesis, on 16 Oct 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Try to build your capital or add enough money to be able to trade with a 500 point stop.

I don't know how much capital you have but, i guess maybe you are over leveraged on a trade. That's why your emotions kick in. 

 

Try to use the lowest leverage that you broker offers. I think the lowest you can trade with IG is R4 per point. Try trading with that amount for at least a month, you will see how it will affect your phycology and decision making.

[Sunesis]

Plasma, on 16 Oct 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Hi S

Appreciate you comments, and I can see you are very passionate about and committed to what you are doing....that is great and can only help members on this forum.

I had to think about your "trade with emotion" statement. Last year and earlier this year I got whacked big time, and am still struggling to build up my trading account. If I had a 200 point range playing field, I would probably have kept the long. However, my expectation was that the east may also negatively react....therefor loosing the bit of money on the open long was more palatable that potentially loosing more given my expectations on developments over night. I was wrong...but that is the way it is.

Keep posting

Try to build your capital or add enough money to be able to trade with a 500 point stop.

I don't know how much capital you have but, i guess maybe you are over leveraged on a trade. That's why your emotions kick in. 

 

Try to use the lowest leverage that you broker offers. I think the lowest you can trade with IG is R4 per point. Try trading with that amount for at least a month, you will see how it will affect your phycology and decision making.

 

If you cannot sleep with an open trade then you are over leveraged.

 

I sometimes don't even trade with a stop, because i know that even if the market had to go against me big time i will not suffer a blow.

 

I trade Forex and other instruments so i know how phycology works.

 

If you are still young, then i would recommend you don't sleep. Maybe sleep 4-5hours.

You will sleep when you retire.

I took an exercise were i only slept 4-5 hours everyday for the whole month. Not trading, but actually studing market movements in forex. Once you master forex, stocks and indices are a piece of cake.

Just try to teach yourself about other markets. If will help you to see how they all correlate.

 

The older I get, the more I see a straight path where I want to go. If you're going to hunt elephants, don't get off the trail for a rabbit

[Plasma]

Sunesis, on 16 Oct 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Plasma, on 16 Oct 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Got cold feet and closed the long last night ....missed out on another 200 points....10 seconds of regret and moving on

Plasma we had a nice long last night. I don't understand how you trade with emotions.
You got the long at the lowest but you chickened out.

I closed the 1st long @39480
I took another one last night @ 39425.

If we open with a dip i will be very happy.

Hi S

Appreciate you comments, and I can see you are very passionate about and committed to what you are doing....that is great and can only help members on this forum.

I had to think about your "trade with emotion" statement. Last year and earlier this year I got whacked big time, and am still struggling to build up my trading account. If I had a 200 point range playing field, I would probably have kept the long. However, my expectation was that the east may also negatively react....therefor loosing the bit of money on the open long was more palatable that potentially loosing more given my expectations on developments over night. I was wrong...but that is the way it is.

Keep posting

[Sunesis]

Lekkerry, on 16 Oct 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

To those that are blinded by this bullish behaviour and just want to jump in right now to participate in this frenzy, be cautious. If nothing else, this is a buy high setup now (you want to buy low!). If I look at the RSI, its next big move is to flatten (drop) a tad, I would venture a guess. It might be short-lived though. 

The pigs jump in last and get smoked.

The brave buy the dips and make money. When the rest of the crowd start buying, that's when we get out.

 

You have to understand how Wall Street plays its game.  My guess is the financial press, including "Wall Street Journal, Barron's, CNBC, Sharenet,Bloomberg, MarketWatch", are all told to publish articles, about how terrible everything is.  Ordinary investors believe this crap, as if ordinary journalists actually know or have any effect whatsoever on the market's movements.  Then the specialist-market makers swoop in, and smash the market higher, cleaning everyone out, and bankrupting small, individual investors.

[Mafuta24]

Hi S,

 

Thank you for the information. When you have a clear expectation and budget planning, together with capital, I am sure that you would be able to run a decent trading "business". I practice a conservative approach to my trading, meaning I stick to my trading plan day in and day out, but I am also not shy for an opportunity. Discipline is key yes!

 

I guess, when you are Trading as a sole proprietor, all that you need is to consult with a tax consultant, pay provisional tax and keep record of you income and expenses on an accounting package? Or do you pay yourself a salary......    Business of Personal account?

 

Bought the dip this morning, and made my daily target (one day at a time)

 

Interesting times ahead of us! 

 

All the best!!

 

 

Sunesis, on 15 Oct 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

You will need about R300 000 to start trading for you to be able to pay yourself.

In a normal lifestyle you would need around R20 000-R30 000 a month 

 

This means you need to make atleast R1000 a day trading.

 

If you are trading R10 per point this means you need only 100points a day, which is easy.

Once you get the market rythm you can make R3000 plus a day.

 

Remember there are days which you will make more than 100 points, average points a day is 250 points.

 

You need to be a day trader to capture this kind of points.

Trading will be your job.

 

You will make more than your CEO if you have more capital.

 

Let say you have a million rand account, then you start trading R50 per point. That means you are making R5000 for every 1000 points.

 

Make  it simple, one day at a time.

[Redeemer]

Well done S!

May this bull live!!!

 

Sunesis, on 16 Oct 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

 

I love this Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarkkkkkkeeeeeeeettttttttttttttt

 

Viva La Bull           

 

I'm done for the day. Made more money than a person still going to work.

 

Bull markets are stronger by orders of magnitude, than bear markets. Due to human nature, they tend to go and go and go.

 

[Lekkerry]

To those that are blinded by this bullish behaviour and just want to jump in right now to participate in this frenzy, be cautious. If nothing else, this is a buy high setup now (you want to buy low!). If I look at the RSI, its next big move is to flatten (drop) a tad, I would venture a guess. It might be short-lived though. 

 

[edit:] - above based on an intraday perspective

Edited by Lekkerry, 16 October 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[Mad Max]

Lekkerry, on 16 Oct 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

AM I the only one that thinks this movement is ridonculous? 

It uneffing believable !  My eyes are turning green !

[Lekkerry]

AM I the only one that thinks this movement is ridonculous? 

[Sunesis]

I love this Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarkkkkkkeeeeeeeettttttttttttttt

 

Viva La Bull           

 

I'm done for the day. Made more money than a person still going to work.

 

Bull markets are stronger by orders of magnitude, than bear markets. Due to human nature, they tend to go and go and go.

 

[Sunesis]

Lekkerry, on 16 Oct 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Have a target (J200) of 40173 (BBU) on the dailies 

That was the best dip buy, very fast already 150+ points.

 

Viva La Bull        

 

Making money is easy. I think i will make my daily target in less than 1hour of work

[Lekkerry]

Have a target (J200) of 40173 (BBU) on the dailies 

[Sunesis]

Jakes, on 16 Oct 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Taken first profit @ 39780

Last night you got a nice 300 point dip. Good points if you closed.

I took a long late last night from the low, and also closed around 2AM.

 

This market is beautiful.

[Sunesis]

Buy the dips Traders

 

[Sunesis]

Buy the dips Traders