866 replies to this topic

[Zanme]

I just voted. Will like to propose that a portion of their salary be used to buy shares at 10 cents not sure how to do it. Unfortunately the CEO is not up for re-election.

[Trader001]

YES vote against directors remuneration.  The whole bunch of them.... I don think they deserve their salaries

[Tonyh199]

They just need to convince the institutional shareholders that they have a plan - then it is curtains for us small timers. Imagine if institional shareholders could only charge a % of the profits. Then a lot of companies would be run correctly at the JSE. As they would stop being glorified spectators and actually ask the hard questions. Right now its not their money and they still get to charge their exorbitant fees whether they made a loss or a profit.

Unfortunately you are correct , the smaller shareholders can do nothing about it. 

 

If you would really like to spoil your weekend read Note 45 (Directors Emoluments)  to the Annual Financial Statements on the Aveng website:   In 2019 the 3 main exec directors Diack, Flanagan and Macartney earned a total of R38,2 million in remuneration of which R 17,7 m were cash incentive payments!   Then they have had the arrogance to award themselves fat increases in 2020 !

[skeez]

At the Agm vote against the reelection of the board members all of them and reject their remuneration policy. That's one way to show them shareholders aren't to be FffffD with..

They just need to convince the institutional shareholders that they have a plan - then it is curtains for us small timers. Imagine if institional shareholders could only charge a % of the profits. Then a lot of companies would be run correctly at the JSE. As they would stop being glorified spectators and actually ask the hard questions. Right now its not their money and they still get to charge their exorbitant fees whether they made a loss or a profit.

[Blackobar]

At the Agm vote against the reelection of the board members all of them and reject their remuneration policy. That's one way to show them shareholders aren't to be FffffD with..

[skeez]

These guys have only one thing in their minds. That is line up their pockets and try and prolong this for as long as possible. I don't recall any decision they have taken in the last 2 years which has been good for shareholders.

[Tonyh199]

The notice of AGM was published yesterday.

 

The non exec salaries make for interesting reading. No increases shown except for the (Non Resident) Chairman who is in line for 20,42% increase to UK Pounds 100 000.00. Unfortunately they do not disclose the executive directors remuneration as they are paid as employees.

 

This board has decimated share value and had one debacle after another as far as contract losses and claims are concerned but the ex chairman of the risk committee (now board chairman) is getting an increase.?

 

There is no mention of the restructuring/rights issue in the resolutions - Does this not need shareholder approval ?

 

 

[Tonyh199]

The notice of AGM was published yesterday.

 

The non exec salaries make for interesting reading. No increases shown except for the (Non Resident) Chairman who is in line for 20,42% increase to UK Pounds 100 000.00. Unfortunately they do not disclose the executive directors remuneration as they are paid as employees.

 

This board has decimated share value and had one debacle after another as far as contract losses and claims are concerned but the ex chairman of the risk committee (now board chairman) is getting an increase.?

 

There is no mention of the restructuring/rights issue in the resolutions - Does this not need shareholder approval ?

 

 

[Zanme]

A multi billion rand company can not afford to pay an extra 1.5 mil a month? I think the remuneration committee needs to have a look at cutting management's salaries you would easily get that cash. My feeling is there is big kak that they have not disclosed.

They saying that they will be buying back debt with the rights money at a huge discount. Doesn't make sense to me what these guys are up to. I mean who in their right mind will do that. So they will book a profit on that of a couple of R100 million. These guys are the biggest fools in the business. Eric sailed away into the sunset after saying on record that the company will be profitable after the first rights issue. They are still not. But believe that they working wonders by settling this debt.

[skeez]

A multi billion rand company can not afford to pay an extra 1.5 mil a month? I think the remuneration committee needs to have a look at cutting management's salaries you would easily get that cash. My feeling is there is big kak that they have not disclosed.

[Trader001]

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as frustrated as other shareholders as I was hoping Aveng would be out of the woods by now. However, to a certain extend it does make sense if this is to pay off debt and use some for covenants and not SANRAL saga. R300 million credit at 5% interest would result in additional R1.25 million a month just to service interest (excluding tax and fees for simplicity sake), so adding interest on existing interest is never a good idea.

 

Hopefully this is what will happen: They use that rights offer capital injection for what they say they will, so they save a lot on interest (As per results) and they have some money for covenants (more Mcconnell Dowel projects). I hate the idea of a stock consolidation, but let's say the do a 1:2 stock consolidation when they are out of the woods... that would reduce 40 billion shares to 20 billion and they use R500 million to buy back stocks at 5c, this will leave them with 10 billion shares. If this fairy tale plays out, it would have been worth the wait as the share price would finally be able to take off. 

Thanks for the explanation Mink. It makes sense. Then perhaps one should take up that 1.5c offer if approved at the shareholders meeting and hopefully claw  something back after a decade or two. As someone eluded to previously,  my path to 2c was also form a high of 50c years ago......from those days when that German  company blocked the purchase of Aveng by Murray & Roberts

[MINK]

I really hope that shareholders vote against this insane 1.5c rights offer. When is this  shareholders meeting date? What I don't understand is ..why Aveng cannot get credit for an additional R300 million because that is actually peanuts in the bigger scheme of their debt and they have a good order book in Oceania and the East. What am I missing?    

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as frustrated as other shareholders as I was hoping Aveng would be out of the woods by now. However, to a certain extend it does make sense if this is to pay off debt and use some for covenants and not SANRAL saga. R300 million credit at 5% interest would result in additional R1.25 million a month just to service interest (excluding tax and fees for simplicity sake), so adding interest on existing interest is never a good idea.

 

Hopefully this is what will happen: They use that rights offer capital injection for what they say they will, so they save a lot on interest (As per results) and they have some money for covenants (more Mcconnell Dowel projects). I hate the idea of a stock consolidation, but let's say the do a 1:2 stock consolidation when they are out of the woods... that would reduce 40 billion shares to 20 billion and they use R500 million to buy back stocks at 5c, this will leave them with 10 billion shares. If this fairy tale plays out, it would have been worth the wait as the share price would finally be able to take off. 

[Trader001]

Interesting that the shares on offer at 3 cents at the beginning of the week were 430 million. In the last 2 days this has increased to 2,9 billion (15% of issued shares) in 2.5 billion added in 2  big tranches.Not sure of the logic when only an average of  only 15 million a day are being traded. At least 200 days of trading to eat through that quantity.In event one or more of the major shareholders is offloading.

I really hope that shareholders vote against this insane 1.5c rights offer. When is this  shareholders meeting date? What I don't understand is ..why Aveng cannot get credit for an additional R300 million because that is actually peanuts in the bigger scheme of their debt and they have a good order book in Oceania and the East. What am I missing?    

[skeez]

Interesting that the shares on offer at 3 cents at the beginning of the week were 430 million. In the last 2 days this has increased to 2,9 billion (15% of issued shares) in 2.5 billion added in 2 big tranches.Not sure of the logic when only an average of only 15 million a day are being traded. At least 200 days of trading to eat through that quantity.In event one or more of the major shareholders is offloading.

Well with a rights offer of 1.5c coming up pending shareholder approval - i would also sell at 3c. Their update and plan is just insane! Maybe it is the right time to jump before it all goes to 0...

[Tonyh199]

Interesting that the shares on offer at 3 cents at the beginning of the week were 430 million. In the last 2 days this has increased to 2,9 billion (15% of issued shares) in 2.5 billion added in 2  big tranches.Not sure of the logic when only an average of  only 15 million a day are being traded. At least 200 days of trading to eat through that quantity.In event one or more of the major shareholders is offloading.

 

 

[Zanme]

To be fair to expect shareholders who have been waiting for ten years to be more patient and put more money at the hope that management will eventually get this right is taking it too far. I certainly won't support this. Shareholders voted that they buy back shares. This is what they should do.

These guys still think that they wonderful. And that nobody can ask them to buy shares. They should be buying them at the 10cents level of the original rights issue. They claim to have made the company survive but technically speaking had they allowed the company to fold before doing the rights issue. We would have been better off we wouldn't have participated in the rights at 10 cents to find the share at 2 cents and another rights issue on the cards.

[skeez]

Yes ..At the last AGM they were authorized to buy back a max of 20% of the shares per year.

They have now tilted to the opposite side of the spectrum and are increasing shares in issue from 19 bn to 46 bn ( Additional 19bn from R300 m rights issue and 8bn from the R400 m debt settlement) . Share value has been significantly eroded.

However on the positive side :

Q1 for 2021 is a showing a profit of R124 m from core operations and management is promising a "sustainable R1bn a year operating profit", They are conveniently silent on when this could happen but if the Q1 trend continues (and hopefully they got rid of all the skeletons under the COVID excuse) a profit of R500 million for the 2021 year is possible and R1 bn profit is not inconceivable in the next 3 years. This eps even at 46bn shares would be 1,5 cents which could put the value of shares at 10 - 15 cents . (based on WBO and M&R PE ratios)

Although there is risk, I think there is still value in taking a 3 -5 year view by holding onto the shares and taking up the rights.

If management can sort themselves out there is considerable room for improvement in:

-Managing the contract risk so that we do not have anymore of the surprise write offs due to poor management and negligence.
- Improving Margins
- Reducing operating costs from a very high 8%

The Board does have a lot of explaining to do but the new Chairman Hourquebie does have a good track record (apart from him being chairman of the risk committee that failed miserably) and he does have the ability to make this work.

my 2 cents for what its worth!

To be fair to expect shareholders who have been waiting for ten years to be more patient and put more money at the hope that management will eventually get this right is taking it too far. I certainly won't support this. Shareholders voted that they buy back shares. This is what they should do.

[Tonyh199]

Yes I  fully agree......Why must these managers get such enormous salaries? Absolutely bullshit. .And they always seem to be in hiding. One can never get an answer out of them. At one time they also alluded to a share -buy -back. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PROPOSAL? and the share hovers around 1 to 3 cents for the past 2 years. YET THEY ARE BOASTING ABOUT ALL THESE GREAT CONTRACT THAT THEY HAVE LANDED and being executed IN OCEANIA...can Aveng not cross-subsidise this incompentent managers bridge 'disaster' in SA form Australian sources???  just asking to avoid diluting the current share even further with another 1.5c share offer??

 

I think the shareholders should vote againts their proposed plans unless all top management takes a 50% drop in pay package. As someone alluded to...... What they do is not rocket science..and I agree....get rid of the current management. I don't have confidence in them anymore   

Yes ..At the last AGM they were authorized to buy back a max of 20% of the shares per year.

 

They have now tilted to the opposite side of the spectrum and are increasing shares in issue from 19 bn to 46 bn ( Additional 19bn from R300 m rights issue and 8bn from the R400 m debt settlement) . Share value has been significantly eroded.

 

However on the positive side :

 

Q1 for 2021 is a showing a profit of R124 m from core operations and management is promising a "sustainable R1bn a year operating profit", They are conveniently silent on when this could happen but if the Q1 trend continues (and hopefully they got rid of all the skeletons under the COVID excuse) a profit of R500 million for the 2021 year is possible and R1 bn profit is not inconceivable in the next 3 years. This eps even at 46bn shares would be 1,5 cents which could put the value of shares at 10 - 15 cents . (based on WBO and M&R PE ratios)

 

Although there is risk, I think there is still value in taking a 3 -5 year view by holding onto the shares and taking up the rights.

 

If management can sort themselves out there is considerable room for improvement in:

 

-Managing the contract risk so that we do not have anymore of the surprise write offs due to poor management and negligence.

- Improving Margins

- Reducing operating costs from a very high 8% 

 

The Board does have a lot of explaining to do but the new Chairman Hourquebie does have a good track record (apart from him being chairman of the risk committee that  failed miserably) and he does have the ability to make this work.

 

my 2 cents for what its worth!

[Trader001]

A large portion of the proceeds of the R300 million rights issue will need to be used to settle the Mtetu Bridge Performance guarantee debacle - so there will be very little/if any value added to the company but the number of shares in issue will double / the value of each share will halve. Management including the chairman of the Tender Risk Committee - (who is now Board Chairman)  should be held accountable for the debacle....how could they not foresee that possibility when they walked off site? Unfortunately this is unlikely to happen- Covid and every other imaginable excuse is being thrown at shareholders while they take their R80 million in salaries.

Yes I  fully agree......Why must these managers get such enormous salaries? Absolutely bullshit. .And they always seem to be in hiding. One can never get an answer out of them. At one time they also alluded to a share -buy -back. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT PROPOSAL? and the share hovers around 1 to 3 cents for the past 2 years. YET THEY ARE BOASTING ABOUT ALL THESE GREAT CONTRACT THAT THEY HAVE LANDED and being executed IN OCEANIA...can Aveng not cross-subsidise this incompentent managers bridge 'disaster' in SA form Australian sources???  just asking to avoid diluting the current share even further with another 1.5c share offer??

 

I think the shareholders should vote againts their proposed plans unless all top management takes a 50% drop in pay package. As someone alluded to...... What they do is not rocket science..and I agree....get rid of the current management. I don't have confidence in them anymore   

[AMG76]

Sens out this morning already.