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Steinhoff


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#1 DeltaHedge

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Posted Today, 04:42 PM

who knows boys, my portfolio gave back a lot to the market today -_- 

 


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#2 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 03:37 PM

I still believe you see the December settlements with TT and Trevo wrong.  Everywhere it is stated that this settlement does not impact any of the S155 GS, it only affects the financial creditors.  Thus meaning they probably settled for about 97% and not their original 100% as was envisaged when the GS process started.  The Trevo deal actually shows exactly what is going on behind the scenes.

Time will tell and Friday's annual report will give us some insight but next year's financials will show us a better picture.  But for sure Management have been working with a plan and they are sticking to it.... and for me it works.

I hope that you right maybe my English is not good but I have not read anywhere creditors are paying for the Trevo and TT deals. All I have read is the deal needed the approval of the Creditors. Anyway even if creditors pay for the Trevo and TT deals the sale of all the holdings in Pepco and Pepkor is only with Eur 6 bil. ( Remember sale of massiving holding comes with a good discount!!!) I am not convinced creditor will be happy to have MF and FF to pay the rest of the debt and SNH shareholders going to get dividends!!!


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#3 Polla

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Posted Today, 03:21 PM

Haha yes I do remember and at that time we all thought Pepco share price would be flying however the very opposite happened and more giveaways done. Time is the best cure!!!

I still believe you see the December settlements with TT and Trevo wrong.  Everywhere it is stated that this settlement does not impact any of the S155 GS, it only affects the financial creditors.  Thus meaning they probably settled for about 97% and not their original 100% as was envisaged when the GS process started.  The Trevo deal actually shows exactly what is going on behind the scenes.

Time will tell and Friday's annual report will give us some insight but next year's financials will show us a better picture.  But for sure Management have been working with a plan and they are sticking to it.... and for me it works.


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#4 Tentative

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Posted Today, 03:11 PM

In my earlier post I was referring to this bit by Andi: "- They have by "accident" forgot to show the possible tax losses (assets) amounting to 4.3 Billion €. Guys 4.3 billion € of possible tax losses are flying around!!"

 

Has that also been proven wrong over time? I honestly don't know.

 

Haha yes I do remember and at that time we all thought Pepco share price would be flying however the very opposite happened and more giveaways done. Time is the best cure!!!


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#5 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 03:08 PM

Honest answer is that I do not know the ins & out of exactly how/what they will do. But neither do you. To a certain extent I put my faith in management & the (often irrational) market. I'm okay with it, as long as I can see the overall direction & it's within my risk appetite. 

 

Btw remember the good ol' days haha: http://www.sharechat...nhoff/?p=292514

Haha yes I do remember and at that time we all thought Pepco share price would be flying however the very opposite happened and more giveaways done. Time is the best cure!!!


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#6 Tentative

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Posted Today, 03:00 PM

Honest answer is that I do not know the ins & out of exactly how/what they will do. But neither do you. To a certain extent I put my faith in management & the (often irrational) market. I'm okay with it, as long as I can see the overall direction & it's within my risk appetite. 

 

Btw remember the good ol' days haha: http://www.sharechat...nhoff/?p=292514

 

Yes I agree there is not much different to say because now we know virtually with thew exception of the MF IPO and possible FF IPO the value of SNH.

 

I have never said that SNH has no future and I still believe in SNH however the share price does not reflect reality.

 

So my aim is to highlight the possible downside because people are believing in the moon and forgetting reality.

 

So my question to you what is a sustainable debt level after paying out all the shares of PPH on the GS?

 

MF is going to pay over 5,5% interest for the dividend loan so how much do you think a company with negative equity is going to pay?

 

So lets say they manage to bring the debt down to Eur 2 bil and pay a interest of 5,5% the cash needed is over Eur 110 mil not to mention the other corporate costs. So my question to you from where is this cash coming from?

 

Last year LdP got Eur 1 mil bonus and now they planning a issue of 7,5 mil shares. So his bonus today is with Eur 2,1 mil! So my question did management issue the shares based on the realistic value of Eur 13 cents?

 

Haha Zanme is going to go mad!!!!

 

I leave this for people to work out for them selves and remember investments its a individual own decision.


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#7 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 02:49 PM

You have not said anything new in ages; lately really just quoting the Polish stock exchange.

 

And also surely know the debt reduction options already; interest rate reductions, IPOs, selling non-core assets, possibly debt-to-equity swaps (as long as they get the conditions right, it could benefit shareholders). As long as it's brought down to a sustainable level, with significant assets remaining. And as others have mentioned too, surely Management has not brought us this far, just to fold because of the debt burden (very telling they took a share compensation). Gonna be a few surprises I think, like don't they have a tax credit & can they address intra-group debt smartly? 

 

I'm ok with the risk levels for now & have a similar target as KP7 for reducing my position; then rest long.

Yes I agree there is not much different to say because now we know virtually with thew exception of the MF IPO and possible FF IPO the value of SNH.

 

I have never said that SNH has no future and I still believe in SNH however the share price does not reflect reality.

 

So my aim is to highlight the possible downside because people are believing in the moon and forgetting reality.

 

So my question to you what is a sustainable debt level after paying out all the shares of PPH on the GS?

 

MF is going to pay over 5,5% interest for the dividend loan so how much do you think a company with negative equity is going to pay?

 

So lets say they manage to bring the debt down to Eur 2 bil and pay a interest of 5,5% the cash needed is over Eur 110 mil not to mention the other corporate costs. So my question to you from where is this cash coming from?

 

Last year LdP got Eur 1 mil bonus and now they planning a issue of 7,5 mil shares. So his bonus today is with Eur 2,1 mil! So my question did management issue the shares based on the realistic value of Eur 13 cents?

 

Haha Zanme is going to go mad!!!!

 

I leave this for people to work out for them selves and remember investments its a individual own decision.


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#8 Tentative

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Posted Today, 02:34 PM

Haha looks accurate!

 


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#9 Tentative

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Posted Today, 02:32 PM

You have not said anything new in ages; lately really just quoting the Polish stock exchange.

 

And also surely know the debt reduction options already; interest rate reductions, IPOs, selling non-core assets, possibly debt-to-equity swaps (as long as they get the conditions right, it could benefit shareholders). As long as it's brought down to a sustainable level, with significant assets remaining. And as others have mentioned too, surely Management has not brought us this far, just to fold because of the debt burden (very telling they took a share compensation). Gonna be a few surprises I think, like don't they have a tax credit & can they address intra-group debt smartly? 

 

I'm ok with the risk levels for now & have a similar target as KP7 for reducing my position; then rest long.

 

I would be looking forward the SENS (it will make very interesting reading ) and would like to see how the Eur 11 bil debt will be restructured with Eur 7,8 bil of assets, increasing interest rates (there is talk of 5 rate hikes)  and very poor future cash flows!!!

 

I am not talking the share down I am simple putting some thoughts for people to think about their investments!!!

 

For me makes absolutely no difference what people think of my comments and I am very sure I have no influence on the share price.

 

Why don't you put some ideas how you see the restructure? Maybe you have better options and we all can learn something?


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#10 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 02:30 PM

question (possibly a dumb one)....do you include the cost of  trade (buy and sell) into your 1% profit

The trading costs are additional. The profit of 1% is on the value used. I do most of my trading in Frankfurt which I pay very little in trading costs. ( Eur 20 for buy and sell for any amount off money used)


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#11 Africa1962

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Posted Today, 02:20 PM

You see the trouble with people is they think too much!

 

Day trading is all about buying and selling possible over and over the whole day. What you think algorithms are doing?

 

I place an order for the price I think is correct for the time and when the trade is completed I put 1% profit and immediately place the order on the market!

 

Simple stuff buy and sell with small profit each time no fancy science!!!

 

question (possibly a dumb one)....do you include the cost of  trade (buy and sell) into your 1% profit


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#12 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 01:59 PM

I’d even call that into question because it’s impossible for orders to get filled so quickly if you buying and selling with so much volatility.

The only way is through leveraged trading and that’s also impossible to get filled when the market gaps at the open.

You see the trouble with people is they think too much!

 

Day trading is all about buying and selling possible over and over the whole day. What you think algorithms are doing?

 

I place an order for the price I think is correct for the time and when the trade is completed I put 1% profit and immediately place the order on the market!

 

Simple stuff buy and sell with small profit each time no fancy science!!!


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#13 KP7

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Posted Today, 01:40 PM

Haha for me the market is perfect I love volatility its one of the requirements for day trading!!!

 

I’d even call that into question because it’s impossible for orders to get filled so quickly if you buying and selling with so much volatility.

The only way is through leveraged trading and that’s also impossible to get filled when the market gaps at the open.


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#14 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 01:26 PM

The market will do what it wants, not what you want!!!!!!!

Haha for me the market is perfect I love volatility its one of the requirements for day trading!!!


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#15 Squideye

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Posted Today, 01:22 PM

I guess plenty of Duitse will have vandag the equivalent to our Klippies & Coke and môre a moerse babalas...... :D  :lol:  :D


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Everything in the world is only for those who have eyes to see it...


#16 DeltaHedge

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Posted Today, 01:14 PM

Like I said the best ATM I have found. (But off course no market manipulation just algorithms!!! Haha)

 

Now that all the excitement is over about the GS people starting to focus on the Eur 11 bil debt and falling share price of Pepco. ( In fact Pepco IPO proving to be a failure and I agree they should have listed in the UK) 

 

I also not convinced MF is going to be a big winner under the current situation with increasing interest rates and a big debt caused by shareholders borrowing money to pay dividends!!!

 

So my target price still stands!! 

Valid points but again if management didnt have a plan then why not just liquidate and make life easier for all.

Markets are also irrational and even if it does go back to 2.5 it wont hurt as much if one sells and then it launches to 9 bucks imo.

Where is Andi, it would be interesting to see his thoughts here as I liked his theory of steinhoff pleading poverty so maybe a lot of understated figures etc.

 


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#17 CasualTrader

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Posted Today, 01:09 PM

I have about 20 shares in my watch list. They are all down today. Not one is up. 

 


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#18 DeltaHedge

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Posted Today, 01:05 PM

Haha very good keep on tracking and post it again after the financials Friday and debt restructure!!!

this made me lag hard lol


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#19 KP7

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Posted Today, 01:05 PM

Haha very good keep on tracking and post it again after the financials Friday and debt restructure!!!

 

The market will do what it wants, not what you want!!!!!!!


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#20 DayTraderDad

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Posted Today, 01:03 PM

Haha very good keep on tracking and post it again after the financials Friday and debt restructure!!!


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