15225 replies to this topic

[Queen B]

42 cents

SMH

It's like a bad rash we keep trying to scratch 

[Squideye]

Circular & CVR...

Attached Files

•  20230208 Circular-CVR.pdf   722.65KB   23 downloads

[Squideye]

 

" Is the AGM postponed because the above Article 21 problems or perhaps more  due to revisiting  their new plan and possible legal implications of screwing the millions of ordinary shareholders out of Steinhoff without them having ample time to reconsider their investment in Steinhoff

 

Question 3: Could this unilateral plan between Steinhoff and the creditors be considered as insider trading and not allowed because there are lmillions and millions of shareholders that are going to be screwed now."

 

I think this is the general consensus - their plan can be consider as insider trading - as they were in discussions and came up with a plan that did not involve shareholders and yes the AGM was postponed as a result so that they can interpret the law before continuing.

 

 

 New date for AGM @ Wednesday, 22 March 2023

Edited by Squideye, 08 February 2023 - 10:28 AM.

[Africa1962]

" Is the AGM postponed because the above Article 21 problems or perhaps more  due to revisiting  their new plan and possible legal implications of screwing the millions of ordinary shareholders out of Steinhoff without them having ample time to reconsider their investment in Steinhoff

 

Question 3: Could this unilateral plan between Steinhoff and the creditors be considered as insider trading and not allowed because there are lmillions and millions of shareholders that are going to be screwed now."

 

I think this is the general consensus - their plan can be consider as insider trading - as they were in discussions and came up with a plan that did not involve shareholders and yes the AGM was postponed as a result so that they can interpret the law before continuing.

[Trader001]

the latest sens

 

DISSCLOSURE OF INSIDE INFORMATION PURSUANT TO ART. 17 OF THE EU MARKET ABUSE
REGULATION (EU 596/2014, MAR)

 

An issuer shall inform the public as soon as possible of inside information which directly concerns that issuer.

The issuer shall ensure that the inside information is made public in a manner which enables fast access and complete, correct and timely assessment of the information by the public and, where applicable, in the officially appointed mechanism referred to in Article 21 of Directive 2004/109/EC of the European Parliament and the Council . The issuer shall not combine the disclosure of inside information to the public with the marketing of its activities. The issuer shall post and maintain on its website for a period of at least five years, all inside information it is required

I think they misled us all the way then dumped their new plan...in contradiction to the article. 

Someone has obviously taken them to task on this.

 

In that Sens of 2 Feb 2023, Steinhoff also mentioned that a "Shareholders Circular" was also  suppose to be made available to shareholders SIMULTANEOUSLY TO GIVING THE DATE OF THE AGM. The Circular's purpose  is to give further background , details and explanations regarding the proposal to approve the maturity extension transaction INCLUDING THE EQUITY REORGANISATION  ELEMENT.

 

Why did  Du Preez not make an effort to clarify and explain the new plan much earlier? and give us an a positive spin/explanation why this deal will favour the shareholders.

 

The 1st question is: What is this equity re-organisation? Is this the 80-20 split?  Does this mean I will be able to trade my shares until 2026 or do the creditors want 80% of my shares right now?? 

 

So I get the impression this means (as someone has alluded to previously)  that the creditors want that 80% of ordinary shareholders before the credit facility is being extended until 2026.

 

2nd Question: Is this share price going to trade around 50c for the next 3 years, even if  majority shareholders agree to the Creditor/ Steinhoff agreement 

 

If so, how will this affect your shareholding and trading of the share until 2026.

 

To me this is completely unclear. 

also

 Is the AGM postponed because the above Article 21 problems or perhaps more  due to revisiting  their new plan and possible legal implications of screwing the millions of ordinary shareholders out of Steinhoff without them having ample time to reconsider their investment in Steinhoff

 

Question 3: Could this unilateral plan between Steinhoff and the creditors be considered as insider trading and not allowed because there are lmillions and millions of shareholders that are going to be screwed now.

 

Anyone with a possible explanation?   

[Tom]

Shareholders

Name               Equities                %

Public Investment Corporation (SOC) Ltd.   423,118,257     9.91%

The Vanguard Group, Inc.   137,883,535     3.23%

Markus Jooste    68,247,244     1.60%

BlackRock Fund Advisors  45,584,761     1.07%

BlackRock Advisors (UK) Ltd.   12,361,574     0.29%

Dimensional Fund Advisors LP   11,547,517     0.27%

Invesco Capital Management LLC   10,231,592     0.24%

FV Frankfurter Vermögen AG   9,081,390     0.21%

Old Mutual Customised Solutions (Pty) Ltd.   8,402,611    0.20%

SSgA Funds Management, Inc.   6,853,608     0.16%
 

Edited by Tom, 03 February 2023 - 11:16 AM.

[Squideye]

Steinhoff gaan sy jaarvergadering, wat in Maart sou plaasvind, uitstel omdat hy nog duidelikheid oor sy herstruktureringsplan van die reguleerders wil kry. @ https://www.netwerk2...ldplan-20230203

[Africa1962]

the latest sens

 

DISSCLOSURE OF INSIDE INFORMATION PURSUANT TO ART. 17 OF THE EU MARKET ABUSE
REGULATION (EU 596/2014, MAR)

 

An issuer shall inform the public as soon as possible of inside information which directly concerns that issuer.

The issuer shall ensure that the inside information is made public in a manner which enables fast access and complete, correct and timely assessment of the information by the public and, where applicable, in the officially appointed mechanism referred to in Article 21 of Directive 2004/109/EC of the European Parliament and the Council . The issuer shall not combine the disclosure of inside information to the public with the marketing of its activities. The issuer shall post and maintain on its website for a period of at least five years, all inside information it is required

I think they misled us all the way then dumped their new plan...in contradiction to the article. 

Someone has obviously taken them to task on this.

[Africa1962]

Wie skik met wie oor GEPF se geld? Die sage oor die R9,3 miljard van staatsamptenare se pensioenfondsgeld wat aan 'n bemagtigingsgroep geleen is om Steinhoff-aandele te koop, is verby. @ https://www.netwerk2...e-geld-20230202

 

Strange that you should post this now...I was wondering what they are going to do - they own 5% shares if I am correct

[Squideye]

Wie skik met wie oor GEPF se geld? Die sage oor die R9,3 miljard van staatsamptenare se pensioenfondsgeld wat aan 'n bemagtigingsgroep geleen is om Steinhoff-aandele te koop, is verby. @ https://www.netwerk2...e-geld-20230202

[Africa1962]

Doubt you’ll ever get any kind of forecast.

20% will likely mean 20% in an unlisted co, shares virtually untradeable, locked into long term repayment of the debt (so forget dividends or capital growth) in a company none of the 20% will control or influence. Basically worthless then. But decline the deal, and creditors will probably liquidate anyway and get assets sold off. Nothing here suggests a trade out scenario on any permutation. On all fronts the ords are screwed.

 

it sounds if it is best to sell at current price and get the f outta here

[Zeebo]

Doubt you’ll ever get any kind of forecast.

20% will likely mean 20% in an unlisted co, shares virtually untradeable, locked into long term repayment of the debt (so forget dividends or capital growth) in a company none of the 20% will control or influence. Basically worthless then. But decline the deal, and creditors will probably liquidate anyway and get assets sold off. Nothing here suggests a trade out scenario on any permutation. On all fronts the ords are screwed.

[Africa1962]

Accept the 20% deal, Shareholders have no option. Had the shareholders voted and give LdP/CFO shares as remuneration, the plan would have been different...they did not, and this is the answer. LDP screwed us while getting paid redicoulus money and loving the easy life in Val de Vie.

 

If we thought the share price will go to EUR1 with the debt and no equity swop, its now worth EUR0.2

 

No Debt, dividends return. (They have EUR 1.7Bill in cash that can be distributed)

 

Hopefully SdK will not think they smart and mess it up again, because we walk away with jack-S that way.

 

Simple enough.

 

Interesting, they removed the "caution" notice on the last Sens.

 

Does anyone understand theoretically how the 20% deal would work going forward?

What can a person expect to "earn"

anybody care to put an example together?

[Bubble]

Accept the 20% deal, Shareholders have no option. Had the shareholders voted and give LdP/CFO shares as remuneration, the plan would have been different...they did not, and this is the answer. LDP screwed us while getting paid redicoulus money and loving the easy life in Val de Vie.

 

If we thought the share price will go to EUR1 with the debt and no equity swop, its now worth EUR0.2

 

No Debt, dividends return. (They have EUR 1.7Bill in cash that can be distributed)

 

Hopefully SdK will not think they smart and mess it up again, because we walk away with jack-S that way.

 

Simple enough.

 

Interesting, they removed the "caution" notice on the last Sens.

[Zeebo]

Meant €2bn, not 22bn

[Zeebo]

Shocking report and interview with LDP.

In simple terms:
We paid back the creditors first €22bn between 21-23
The problem was always there, did you not all see?
Yet, we signalled a new dawn in Jan 2022
The world turned on us and it’s not our problem
Good luck to the ords - you dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t.
I’ve made R200m and now I’m going to walk away and enjoy it

Simply astounding that this is the third Steinheist. Incredible.

[Squideye]

  20% or bust: the Steinhoff poser @ https://www.business...teinhoff-poser/

[Squideye]

from 18:00 @

[Africa1962]

I am still not clear on this whole arrangement. First thing is that it became quite important for Steinhoff to buy themselves more time. It will appear as if the creditors played hardball and they wanted some form of assurance before they agree to extend. So this to me is where the uncertainty comes in. Does the transfer of ownership happen now/soon or only at the end of the extension period? Of now/soon then yes I am also not happy, but if only at the end of the maturity period (2026??) then surely nothing changes and we effectively just got to hope and pray that Steinhoff can make some progress on settling the debt.  

 

How I see it....at the end of the current maturity period which is June 2023....that want it all by then (100% ownership or 80/20) only then will they extend to 2026...without forcing a liquidation I suppose.

 

but in my opinion a liquidation will benefit me as much as any other option. Namely 50c or less for a share..so i have nothing to lose..so fuckem I have lost it all already.....

 

also I think they would not want liquidation....but who knows as these are creditors that specialize in distressed companies - so selling it off piecemeal is what they good at.

 

Waiting for SDK to advise what to do and how to vote...

 

Perhaps if we lucky Christo Weise offer to buy the who company for 5Billion and shares the other 5 billion amongst the holdings...which they can pay off easily...... 

[CasualTrader]

I am still not clear on this whole arrangement. First thing is that it became quite important for Steinhoff to buy themselves more time. It will appear as if the creditors played hardball and they wanted some form of assurance before they agree to extend. So this to me is where the uncertainty comes in. Does the transfer of ownership happen now/soon or only at the end of the extension period? Of now/soon then yes I am also not happy, but if only at the end of the maturity period (2026??) then surely nothing changes and we effectively just got to hope and pray that Steinhoff can make some progress on settling the debt.