15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

 

Think the main conmen were the 3 musketeers working in this forum in cahoots with  LDV who conned all here... 2 disappeared for good...one who blah blah blah about share reaching R80.00 , dividend to be paid in 2022 , share will be in economic books where out kids will learn from etc etc.. still around. These 3 sold you'll wholesale and are now smiling all the way to the bank..

 

Remember Pollys post:

 

 

 

It is easy for them  to put on a show and be all  cocky, and feel pretty cool and all that.  BUT, to express oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, that my friends here is very hard to do.Why is it that an 8 year old can look at a chart and immediately tell you the direction of the trend yet adults and Gurus with all their bells and whistles can’t figure it out?Why is it the share fell from +80 to current.

I’m only 60 years young. I’m not a “guru” or “expert” at this stage of my life. I’m sharing /advising and giving an opinion  on what I have  learnt from my past experiences and maybe seeing my journey helps some here in some way.( pay heed guys)...everything getting uncovered here

Im not forcing my view on anyone.Its an opinion and will remain as such. Anything can happen at anytime.My analysis /view/ opinion tells me what is likely to happen , not what is certain to happen...Know the difference!

We're dealing with probabilities, not certainties. The future on this share up or down still remains open.Lots of people won’t want to hear it what im trying to say. That’s ok. It’s not my job to please everybody.A good investor could be  is a wise contrarian but not  a stubborn one.

 

To the newbies always remember the trading/investing First Commandment: Thou shall not risk money that thou can't afford to lose.The Steinhoff current share price is not the same as value. Price is objective, Value is subjective.

The thing most love doing here and investing here is to fantasize about the profits to come. And then when things may not  happen according their fantasies, it going to inevitably upsets  most others here.

Im my opinion if you invested here already following the Gurus, the better approach is to imagine  that the trade might result in a loss and, consequently, prepare for it. Worst case scenario. If im wrong , enjoy the winnings. Because this surely is a bet , a gamble. To new investors here, would you invest in a gamble especially when again in my opinion the odds are stacked against you?

 

The mind of the new trader/investor is often cluttered with some get-rich-quick nonsense posted in some chat room which they must eventually come to unlearn in order to learn something real.

 

To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence . 

When people are under pressure, they tend to react blindly (out of fear) to protect themselves at all cost and hence the name calling , insults etc which i can handle but when attacks become personal , thats when i have to draw the line. hence the ignore list preference. I have 4 already and as of today i have included another so called Guru. Came in as a gentleman but subsequently found out to be no different attacking my character as to why i dont invest in pension funds etc. Ive told as much as possible about myself here but not all.What ive told , i get chastised on , imagine if i tell all..If only they knew!! They dont know me , this is a chat room and we all behind a curtain. I could say much more about my wealth, investments , lifestyle, etc etc etc but less said the better.These so called Gurus cant even post how much they invested here or even other shares. This i call the fear where they pump but know risk is there. And how about the guy who pumps but shorts in the share in the quiet. In my opinion he doesn't even short. Just calls the bluff trade to show how macho he is.

 

So people dont me misled , do you own homework ,,,,,,,and invest wisely!!!! Pumpers will try to protect their investments at all costs, even to your detriment!!!!!!

 

My friend Polly had no clue at all about the coming world pendemic called covid or the present war in Ukraine that pushing interest rates up. She also predicted Delta Propertyy fund was going to shoot the lights out yet now at 28 cents. So simple just alot of speculations but never put a y figures to prove her comments. 

[Scalptrader]

The whole management team including the board conned SNH shareholders.
Du Preez can't be held accountable, Zanme, there are just too many loopholes that can help him duck any charges, like the fact that he had the majority vote for whatever things he claimed to be doing, whether it was a good thing, it doesn't matter "y'all" voted for it(not saying you did) and you know how SA handles white collar crimes...
I don't hold any snh and never have, but I'd like to see shareholders salvage something, that's why I'm saying they must sell. Management is good, they are still getting paid only the holders are losing.
Take the few cents and go.

 

Think the main conmen were the 3 musketeers working in this forum in cahoots with  LDV who conned all here... 2 disappeared for good...one who blah blah blah about share reaching R80.00 , dividend to be paid in 2022 , share will be in economic books where out kids will learn from etc etc.. still around. These 3 sold you'll wholesale and are now smiling all the way to the bank..

 

Remember Pollys post:

 

 

 

It is easy for them  to put on a show and be all  cocky, and feel pretty cool and all that.  BUT, to express oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, that my friends here is very hard to do.Why is it that an 8 year old can look at a chart and immediately tell you the direction of the trend yet adults and Gurus with all their bells and whistles can’t figure it out?Why is it the share fell from +80 to current.

I’m only 60 years young. I’m not a “guru” or “expert” at this stage of my life. I’m sharing /advising and giving an opinion  on what I have  learnt from my past experiences and maybe seeing my journey helps some here in some way.( pay heed guys)...everything getting uncovered here

Im not forcing my view on anyone.Its an opinion and will remain as such. Anything can happen at anytime.My analysis /view/ opinion tells me what is likely to happen , not what is certain to happen...Know the difference!

We're dealing with probabilities, not certainties. The future on this share up or down still remains open.Lots of people won’t want to hear it what im trying to say. That’s ok. It’s not my job to please everybody.A good investor could be  is a wise contrarian but not  a stubborn one.

 

To the newbies always remember the trading/investing First Commandment: Thou shall not risk money that thou can't afford to lose.The Steinhoff current share price is not the same as value. Price is objective, Value is subjective.

The thing most love doing here and investing here is to fantasize about the profits to come. And then when things may not  happen according their fantasies, it going to inevitably upsets  most others here.

Im my opinion if you invested here already following the Gurus, the better approach is to imagine  that the trade might result in a loss and, consequently, prepare for it. Worst case scenario. If im wrong , enjoy the winnings. Because this surely is a bet , a gamble. To new investors here, would you invest in a gamble especially when again in my opinion the odds are stacked against you?

 

The mind of the new trader/investor is often cluttered with some get-rich-quick nonsense posted in some chat room which they must eventually come to unlearn in order to learn something real.

 

To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence . 

When people are under pressure, they tend to react blindly (out of fear) to protect themselves at all cost and hence the name calling , insults etc which i can handle but when attacks become personal , thats when i have to draw the line. hence the ignore list preference. I have 4 already and as of today i have included another so called Guru. Came in as a gentleman but subsequently found out to be no different attacking my character as to why i dont invest in pension funds etc. Ive told as much as possible about myself here but not all.What ive told , i get chastised on , imagine if i tell all..If only they knew!! They dont know me , this is a chat room and we all behind a curtain. I could say much more about my wealth, investments , lifestyle, etc etc etc but less said the better.These so called Gurus cant even post how much they invested here or even other shares. This i call the fear where they pump but know risk is there. And how about the guy who pumps but shorts in the share in the quiet. In my opinion he doesn't even short. Just calls the bluff trade to show how macho he is.

 

So people dont me misled , do you own homework ,,,,,,,and invest wisely!!!! Pumpers will try to protect their investments at all costs, even to your detriment!!!!!!

[CasualTrader]

....mine all gone...got out at 50c......agree other opportunities - Renergen about to list on Nasdaq Stock Market...maybe this year.

 

For the rest of my losses.....hopefully going for big dividend payout with Thungela...got R60 a share last year...maybe more in March.....then lick my wounds until Putin dies.....

I hold both, Renergen and Orion. Maybe we should shift our focus there! :-)

[Africa1962]

 

There are other opportunities out there as DTD said. Renergen for example is such a share and also Orion.

 

 

 

....mine all gone...got out at 50c......agree other opportunities - Renergen about to list on Nasdaq Stock Market...maybe this year.

 

For the rest of my losses.....hopefully going for big dividend payout with Thungela...got R60 a share last year...maybe more in March.....then lick my wounds until Putin dies.....

[Trader001]

 Yes, definitely I agree. There are other opportunities. I,  like many others, hoped that this company would do well. I could have exited this share with a substantial profit unfortunately I did not. The sale of Pepkor to refund the PIC...interesting.... but  PIC has/had 9%...,have  I wonder how that would worked?

Well, after careful consideration this weekend I am selling. Rather take what you can. Maybe Du Preez decides again to sell another percentage of its holding  quitely and the share drops to 10c..With this unpredictability,  ordinary shareholders  are losing all the F/time.

 

I do not want to own a NIL VALUED CVR CERTIFICATE WHERE THE CHANCES ARE 10% TO GET SOMETHING AND 90% THAT I'LL GET F-alI.

 

Also trading is going to be suspended on 17 Feb according to that Circular and the chances are good that when trading is continued again , (after how many weeks, no one  F/in knows....it might even be suspended until after AGM which is 23 March), it might only last to 28 June 2023 anyhow when the majority shareholders vote for implementing the new plan, and the FSE and JSE suspend Steinhoff trading. Then when trading resumes again ,in that small window of time eg March to June, the market sentiment is going to be so bad it might then open at F/in 10c anyhow  and just stay there. This is my opinion.

 

There are other opportunities out there as DTD said. Renergen for example is such a share and also Orion.

 

So in the final analysis, I had enough of Steinhoff .

 

Cheers to all the guys that made good contributions for now, maybe well talk again in future 

[Blackobar]

Du Preez conned everyone.
He must be held accountable.
He could have done this 5 years ago. Been without a job.
But he played this to his benefit.

The whole management team including the board conned SNH shareholders.
Du Preez can't be held accountable, Zanme, there are just too many loopholes that can help him duck any charges, like the fact that he had the majority vote for whatever things he claimed to be doing, whether it was a good thing, it doesn't matter "y'all" voted for it(not saying you did) and you know how SA handles white collar crimes...
I don't hold any snh and never have, but I'd like to see shareholders salvage something, that's why I'm saying they must sell. Management is good, they are still getting paid only the holders are losing.
Take the few cents and go.

[DeltaHedge]

Du Preez conned everyone.
He must be held accountable.
He could have done this 5 years ago. Been without a job.
But he played this to his benefit.

Take him to court, u gona have to cut down on those curries

[DayTraderDad]

Shenanigans kept happening even after December 2017, I tried to prosecute them but I don't have enough money and resources to hire Attorneys and do that.

Lots of SENS (still even after December 2017) were carrying either factually false and harmful or lies or misleading statements or misleading empty promises.

Then continuing with collecting big fat salaries even after December 2017 (as if the company is such a big profit making one) while threatening the shareholders.

The vast majority of shareholders were/are small investors that don't have the knowledge or even access to knowledge to figure out what is what and they were taken for a ride.

And about the Shenanigans before December 2017 the investors that had money to prosecute got higher compensation percentages than the investors that don't, and of course we always get false explanations as to why this unfairness is considered fair.

Think we need tobe fair and understand why things landed up as it is now. PEPCO share did not go up as it should for a excellent business. My take on this is listing was done on the wrong exchange. Had it been in Amsterdam or London I believe the sbare would be now double or tripple the listing price. That would have made a very big difference. The failure to get MF listed also did no favours and as for Pepkor the share price gone sideways for long time which would make things much different had it gone up to the mid 30's. I dont believe that there were shanigans are managrment trying to BS shareholders it was dkne in hope for the business to grow at ratex above 16%. Saying this SNH was still the best ATM I have found for day trading. 

[DayTraderDad]

Are you pumping this mess or I'm reading your comment wrong on the share being worth R1?
It would be a shame if you were.
This thing is dead. People, Take whatever is left and go, the lenders have won, that ceo they hired has won too.

I am out like you said lenders have won. 

[Tom]

Shenanigans kept happening even after December 2017, I tried to prosecute them but I don't have enough money and resources to hire Attorneys and do that.

Lots of SENS (still even after December 2017) were carrying either factually false and harmful or lies or misleading statements or misleading empty promises.

Then continuing with collecting big fat salaries even after December 2017 (as if the company is such a big profit making one) while threatening the shareholders.

The vast majority of shareholders were/are small investors that don't have the knowledge or even access to knowledge to figure out what is what and they were taken for a ride.

And about the Shenanigans before December 2017 the investors that had money to prosecute got higher compensation percentages than the investors that don't, and of course we always get false explanations as to why this unfairness is considered fair.

[Blackobar]

For me the only reason lenders agreed to this was to avoid a liqujdatikn which would be time consuming and maybe even would include litigation. Altimatly SNH has to find the cash to pay the debt whjch at present is not possible.Even whrn thd share ran ul tk the R2 i said the value should be aroud R1 so 20% is the 20 cents. There is a channce one could make some good money in the long future but for me owning a share not easily tradable is high risk.

Are you pumping this mess or I'm reading your comment wrong on the share being worth R1?
It would be a shame if you were.
This thing is dead. People, Take whatever is left and go, the lenders have won, that ceo they hired has won too.

[DayTraderDad]

I have looked at those documents and have come to the following conclusions:

 

1.SDK wrote a good letter but the creditors seem to want this company now. It will be interesting to see what the response of Snh and the creditors will be on the questions that they have  asked. I personally don't think the SDK effort is going to make any difference

2. In the Circular to shareholders, Du Preez is asking the shareholders to support the new Plan yet, to my understanding, that will mean the trading on the FSE and JSE will be suspended on 28 June 2023 ( dates inside the circular) and the the new company will proceed to issue CVRs to shareholders  with the understanding that you could will get fookal/ nothing in the end depending on whether Steinhoff's asset will cover all the debt. By voting yes you will only expedite the creditors plan to get the Steinhoff much earlier and you will get a CVR certificate which could mean absolutely nothing

3. So where does the extension to 2026 come in?  Well it looks like there is another plan ..the WHOA Restructuring plan. Under this plan the shareholders reject the plan under  item2 above but the creditors get shares in steinhoff ..perhaps this is the 80%. This will mean that the share will be tradeable until 2026 albeit at a depressed value, who knows. The WHOA plan will have to be given the green light by the Dutch courts 

4. Anyhow, by June 2026 steinhoff will seize to exist and the new company will own 100% of steinhoff and the ordinary shareholder will have ziltch.

 

5. Trading of steinhoff is going to be suspended on 17 Feb 2023 to give the shareholders time to think about their voting. 

6. it does not look that the creditors will enforce a liquidation of steinhoff as they will dilute/destroy there own assets in the process with all the additional legal costs.

7. The question remains: what are the chances that Steinhoff will recover to R1 or more. As it stands it just needs to go to 4 or 5 cents Euro 

 

Any comments?

For me the only reason lenders agreed to this was to avoid a liqujdatikn which would be time consuming and maybe even would include litigation. Altimatly SNH has to find the cash to pay the debt whjch at present is not possible.Even whrn thd share ran ul tk the R2 i said the value should be aroud R1 so 20% is the 20 cents. There is a channce one could make some good money in the long future but for me owning a share not easily tradable is high risk.

[DayTraderDad]

 Yes, definitely I agree. There are other opportunities. I,  like many others, hoped that this company would do well. I could have exited this share with a substantial profit unfortunately I did not. The sale of Pepkor to refund the PIC...interesting.... but  PIC has/had 9%...,have  I wonder how that would worked?

At the time with the Tekkie Town Old boys issues there was also an  undisclosed agreenent with PIC which to my understanding involved Pepkor shares so 5hat 5hey would not persue legal action.

[Trader001]

Its deficult to say but looking at the situation now also looking like US and China geting tangled over ballons one cannot predict the future and I think there are other opportunaties out there. I am not convinced that SNH can get out of this debt and quite sure before lenders sill take air cut shareholders will loose everything. Its a pittty could have turned other way had the world decided living in piece and prosperity instead of wars. Very sure Pepco is going to be very profitable in the future but being listed in Poland makes it deficult buying those shares. For me I am out moving on. The 6 % sale of Pepkor I think it was to cover the PIC deal.

 Yes, definitely I agree. There are other opportunities. I,  like many others, hoped that this company would do well. I could have exited this share with a substantial profit unfortunately I did not. The sale of Pepkor to refund the PIC...interesting.... but  PIC has/had 9%...,have  I wonder how that would worked?

[Trader001]

Thanks a lot, will have a look at it: that 85 page CVR doc and the SDK letter. :  

 

I have looked at those documents and have come to the following conclusions:

 

1.SDK wrote a good letter but the creditors seem to want this company now. It will be interesting to see what the response of Snh and the creditors will be on the questions that they have  asked. I personally don't think the SDK effort is going to make any difference

2. In the Circular to shareholders, Du Preez is asking the shareholders to support the new Plan yet, to my understanding, that will mean the trading on the FSE and JSE will be suspended on 28 June 2023 ( dates inside the circular) and the the new company will proceed to issue CVRs to shareholders  with the understanding that you could will get fookal/ nothing in the end depending on whether Steinhoff's asset will cover all the debt. By voting yes you will only expedite the creditors plan to get the Steinhoff much earlier and you will get a CVR certificate which could mean absolutely nothing

3. So where does the extension to 2026 come in?  Well it looks like there is another plan ..the WHOA Restructuring plan. Under this plan the shareholders reject the plan under  item2 above but the creditors get shares in steinhoff ..perhaps this is the 80%. This will mean that the share will be tradeable until 2026 albeit at a depressed value, who knows. The WHOA plan will have to be given the green light by the Dutch courts 

4. Anyhow, by June 2026 steinhoff will seize to exist and the new company will own 100% of steinhoff and the ordinary shareholder will have ziltch.

 

5. Trading of steinhoff is going to be suspended on 17 Feb 2023 to give the shareholders time to think about their voting. 

6. it does not look that the creditors will enforce a liquidation of steinhoff as they will dilute/destroy there own assets in the process with all the additional legal costs.

7. The question remains: what are the chances that Steinhoff will recover to R1 or more. As it stands it just needs to go to 4 or 5 cents Euro 

 

Any comments?

[DayTraderDad]

Ok, that reasoning is good. Do you suggest one takes that 35c per share and call it a day?

 

Yes, I think a lot of shareholder thought that  Steinhoff would trade itself out of debt but I suppose the War and world economic situation turned against Steinhoff 

Its deficult to say but looking at the situation now also looking like US and China geting tangled over ballons one cannot predict the future and I think there are other opportunaties out there. I am not convinced that SNH can get out of this debt and quite sure before lenders sill take air cut shareholders will loose everything. Its a pittty could have turned other way had the world decided living in piece and prosperity instead of wars. Very sure Pepco is going to be very profitable in the future but being listed in Poland makes it deficult buying those shares. For me I am out moving on. The 6 % sale of Pepkor I think it was to cover the PIC deal.

[Trader001]

Shareholders are going to get nothing unless the lenders reduce the interest rate. If they took 80 % of equity to reschedule the loans to 2026 what will happen then in 2026? With the currrent situation I cannot see SNH investment being able to pay anything back not even the loans. For me the end result lenders will take all the shares on Pepco and whats left of the othes. We have to realize even though SNH has great investments circumstances played against it.

 

Ok, that reasoning is good. Do you suggest one takes that 35c per share and call it a day?

 

Yes, I think a lot of shareholder thought that  Steinhoff would trade itself out of debt but I suppose the War and world economic situation turned against Steinhoff 

[Trader001]

Page 22-23. Section 5.5

Thanks a lot, will have a look at it: that 85 page CVR doc and the SDK letter. :  

[DayTraderDad]

See the Shareholder Circular that Squideye posted.

 

It depends on what the CVR will pay out, if anything is left...you will get nothing if this proposal is voted againts.

 

Picking at the carcass...any CVR payout is subject to yet another "Agent" taking 20% of what is paid out as a admin fee(this tells me there will be something left and an Agent is in place already). FFS, this LdP and TdK lined everyones pockets along the way of dissolving this F-up of a company.

 

I think(hope), the CVR payout will be worth waiting for if shareholders do not shoot themselves in the foot at the AGM.

 

Trying to fight managment now, only delays the process, which increases the interest bill and risk of creditor support being pulled which will trigger liquidation...then you get nothing.

Shareholders are going to get nothing unless the lenders reduce the interest rate. If they took 80 % of equity to reschedule the loans to 2026 what will happen then in 2026? With the currrent situation I cannot see SNH investment being able to pay anything back not even the loans. For me the end result lenders will take all the shares on Pepco and whats left of the othes. We have to realize even though SNH has great investments circumstances played against it.

[DayTraderDad]

You a joke

Haha thanks but I guess the joke is on you. Your hatret for LdP blinds you to see reality. It was shareholders that put LdP on his position, he did not walk in the SNH offices and highjacked the position.