15225 replies to this topic

[Bushmanbob]

Zamne, here's the question we are all asking and are puzzled by, with ALL your knowledge and insight of this badly managed company run by a bunch of "thieves", WHY, pray tell us WHY you don't just exit SNH and move onto another share you obviously have the skill to identify. Whose forcing you to be a shareholder, if I new what you do, I'd long be gone !!!

 

Come on man, don't let yourself be robbed by Loius and  his Team any longer, show us your skill, move on and prove us all wrong!!!

I too am confounded by Zanmes insistance at being invested in a management structure he despises so much, with a plan he has no faith in. 

[Bushmanbob]

Bushman if you follow your investment you are also a shareholder. Executive remuneration doesn't have to be approved by shareholders. Shareholders like myself voted against it not sure what you did. If R111 million is not excessive than I don't know what sort of money you have. So please educate yourself before you shoot from the hip. No Bushman he didn't make the share price climb from 81 cents. But instead brought it down from the R70 that it was trading at before this Jooste sent his cry baby email. Why are you guys so protective of these crooks. They are actually in the same camp as Zuma and his cronies if not worst. As I said previously if he brings the share price to R70 than he can command R111 million. He is not operating any of the businesses they money making machines. With the kind of money he earns I doubt that he even stepped into the Stellenbosch Pep store. So please his remuneration should be based on his performance. His performance should be based on one thing and that is shareholder value creation. Not sure what value he has created for you but he hasn't for me. Don't humor yourself with the 80 cents jump. And please educate yourself properly before attacking the next person. Answer and don't give me the rhetoric about it had to happen. Tell me one thing that he has done to improve your back pocket. Tell me how has the money spent on PwC benifitted your back pocket. Tell me why can't he prove that this company has value so these litigants can go fly kite. This whole thing was a big PR excercise to support their own agenda and the longer its drawn out the more money he earns. This guy will end up richer than his first Master Jooste.

It is very difficult to be civil when someone repeatedly instructs you to educate yourself but I'll put my best foot forward. Your contempt aside, I will repeat -  the shareholders voted (as you know it isn't required to be unanimous).  Whether his salary is justifiable or not will be revealed in time but for the sake of clarity, my opinion is that he will be well worth it IF he can pull it off - however, I would agree with Everlearning - LDP and his entourage have achieved a great deal in getting to this point - although I'm almost certain you will assert that you could have done a far better job.  I really don't understand why you chose to use the words "shooting from the hip" but then again I don't understand most of your assertions.  Shooting from the hip is exactly what you are doing - in fact you're spraying pretty much everything with your random fire. 

If you're going to lay the fall of the share price from R70 squarely at the feet of LDP then I am at a loss as to why you would not credit him with the 127% share price increase since November 2020? Surely his ability to obliterate this share is equal to his ability to raise it? Or is it a case of he is responsible for all that is wrong and nothing that is right? 

With regards to humoring myself with the 80c climb - I'm not sure how to answer that as it seems patently obvious. It wasn't an 80c climb, it is more like 100c climb and again, in real terms, anyone who held shares at 80c will have a portfolio worth 127% more than it was at 80c and that is in very real terms.  Are you actually contending you were better off at 80c than you are now at 184c  (unless you shorted this stock at 80c)? Oh and not to mention you had the opportunity to exit at 293c on 15th Feb 2021 which, given your utter disgust at LDP, consultants, lack of progress, management and legal strategy, destruction of wealth, crippling debt etc... might have solved your problems - and would certainly have saved some of us the tedium of enduring your never ending, unsupported claims.

As a final note, attacking you    you don't often let facts get in the way of a good drama do you? Yes, by challenging your unfounded accusations (note: with no personal insults).  I keenly await the evidence supporting all your repeated claims against LDP. 


 

[DayTraderDad]

I like all the comments and indeed nice debate!!!

 

For me I support management 110% because they deserve every sent earned.

 

The Reason that Hamiltons and the Tekkie town old boys are having difficulties is because management hired the top consultants to come up with well planned settlement very well made up.

[sommerso]

We are fighting for the same thing but from different sides of the equation. We all want a ten bagger at least and if possible a 20 bagger....  

 

Let us try and remember that as much as possible. There are different views about what could and should have, but could've, would've, should've isn't worth the air it is wasted on. 

 

Things could have been done better and things could have been much worse for us. 

 

We are where we are, let us make the best of that. Fighting anonymously on some forum is not going to change the share price and I actually doubt anything we do with our combined shares would be enough to change the course of this boat. 

 

 

[Everlearning]

Zamne, here's the question we are all asking and are puzzled by, with ALL your knowledge and insight of this badly managed company run by a bunch of "thieves", WHY, pray tell us WHY you don't just exit SNH and move onto another share you obviously have the skill to identify. Whose forcing you to be a shareholder, if I new what you do, I'd long be gone !!!

 

Come on man, don't let yourself be robbed by Loius and  his Team any longer, show us your skill, move on and prove us all wrong!!!

[Zanme]

Just as a matter of interest - are you able to share any light on whether Louis stole his remuneration or whether it was approved by Shareholders? For someone who claims to be invested in the success of Steinhoff you are not shy with accusations / claims which don't necessarily have any merit. Your emotion, while understandable, is unhelpful. We need facts - not feelings. By the way I'm sure you knew this when you made the claim recently that LDP has destroyed wealth - but I will point it out anyway - from 81c (November 2020) to +-184c (June 2021) is 127% of wealth creation. Furthemore, one can hardly claim SNH is forever stuck at 180c when since January 2021 is has spent around 30 days in the 180c-190c range.
You claim "you guys don't take your ownership seriously" - huh? is that another fact? Some of us chose not to make baseless claims which serve only to unnecessarily fuel rumor, scepticism and doubt (when they are not factual) and thereby have the potential to destroy reputations and therefore, wealth.

Most of us are aware of the precariousness and indeed the complexity of the situation (although you seem to give off the impression that this is all very simple and could be resolved rather cheaply) at present and I certainly don't claim to have any insight on how it will play out however delays with acceptance of the global settlement are as a result of claimants actions and should not be confused with a perception that management are inactive.

If you have facts at your disposal, which may serve to support your claims - then again (I have asked before), please share them - I for one would be very interested in the facts - otherwise not interested in the emotion, insults and ramblings.

Bushman if you follow your investment you are also a shareholder. Executive remuneration doesn't have to be approved by shareholders. Shareholders like myself voted against it not sure what you did. If R111 million is not excessive than I don't know what sort of money you have. So please educate yourself before you shoot from the hip. No Bushman he didn't make the share price climb from 81 cents. But instead brought it down from the R70 that it was trading at before this Jooste sent his cry baby email. Why are you guys so protective of these crooks. They are actually in the same camp as Zuma and his cronies if not worst. As I said previously if he brings the share price to R70 than he can command R111 million. He is not operating any of the businesses they money making machines. With the kind of money he earns I doubt that he even stepped into the Stellenbosch Pep store. So please his remuneration should be based on his performance. His performance should be based on one thing and that is shareholder value creation. Not sure what value he has created for you but he hasn't for me. Don't humor yourself with the 80 cents jump. And please educate yourself properly before attacking the next person. Answer and don't give me the rhetoric about it had to happen. Tell me one thing that he has done to improve your back pocket. Tell me how has the money spent on PwC benifitted your back pocket. Tell me why can't he prove that this company has value so these litigants can go fly kite. This whole thing was a big PR excercise to support their own agenda and the longer its drawn out the more money he earns. This guy will end up richer than his first Master Jooste.

[Bushmanbob]

So Steinhoff currently has two groups of shareholders litigants old Stellenbosch Mafia and us. Why should one group of shareholders obtain benefit over another. With all the drama this group is financially stable and can settle its debts and time has proven that. So what exactly are these crooks suing for. If it is this big fraud then they need to sue the perpetrators. If they don't pay this claim the value will sit in the group and thereby benefit everyone including the perpetrators in Stellenbosch. On separate note Louis needs to be sued for gross negligence in dealing with this and the cost of all consultants and special Americans. And for recklessly trading by over remmunerating himself from a group that he and Heather called precarious. Yes Heather I am a crook as well needs to be sued. This is actually how this needs to change. But Steinhoff did nothing wrong. Stellenbosch did the wrongs. But actually the wrongs are turning out to be not so wrong after all. And the real wrong doers are Louis Heather and whoever put the group into this.

Just as a matter of interest - are you able to share any light on whether Louis stole his remuneration or whether it was approved by Shareholders?  For someone who claims to be invested in the success of Steinhoff you are not shy with accusations / claims which don't necessarily have any merit. Your emotion, while understandable, is unhelpful.  We need facts - not feelings.  By the way I'm sure you knew this when you made the claim recently that LDP has destroyed wealth - but I will point it out anyway - from 81c (November 2020) to +-184c (June 2021) is 127% of wealth creation. Furthemore, one can hardly claim SNH is forever stuck at 180c when since January 2021 is has spent around 30 days in the 180c-190c range. 

You claim "you guys don't take your ownership seriously"  -  huh?  is that another fact?  Some of us chose not to make baseless claims which serve only to unnecessarily fuel rumor, scepticism and doubt (when they are not factual) and thereby have the potential to destroy reputations and therefore, wealth.  

Most of us are aware of the precariousness and indeed the complexity of the situation (although you seem to give off the impression that this is all very simple and could be resolved rather cheaply) at present and I certainly don't claim to have any insight on how it will play out however delays with acceptance of the global settlement are as a result of claimants actions and should not be confused with a perception that management are inactive. 

If you have facts at your disposal, which may serve to support your claims - then again (I have asked before), please share them - I for one would be very interested in the facts - otherwise not interested in the emotion, insults and ramblings.
 

[CasualTrader]

Ok, I understand, but you appear to be tarring us all with the same brush. I don't  like or care much for the Stellenbosch mafia. I am also just looking at turning a profit on this. 

[Zanme]

Why does it matter to you if we get excited. If you are not invested in the share just don't follow this. You are entitled to your opinion, but I have invested and I am here with like minded people who believe things can be turned around. The fact that people were crooks is irrelevant. They must face the music if their time comes. Off course people did dodgy stuff, there is no denying it.

I wouldn't be here if I am not invested. Unlike you guys I want to maximize my value not the Stellenbosch mafia

[CasualTrader]

Why does it matter to you if we get excited. If you are not invested in the share just don't follow this. You are entitled to your opinion, but I have invested and I am here with like minded people who believe things can be turned around. The fact that people were crooks is irrelevant. They must face the music if their time comes. Off course people did dodgy stuff, there is no denying it. 

 

[Zanme]

Oh poor Zamne, so uninformed and Illogical!

Was not going to reply and comment as your argument or the case you make is baseless and without merit.

Yes, Steinhoff has been the subject of one of the largest fraudulent heists in corporate history and by all accounts, should have been liquidated and ALL shareholders would have lost EVERTHING!

Let us start at he beginning, when the fraud was discovered, SNH were indebted to creditors (not claimants or shareholders or the likes of “contractual Claimants” ) to an amount in excess of 9Bill Euros. They are preferential creditors and the first of ANY proceeds goes to them in full value. A liquidated Steinhoff would not have reached even what is required by them. And by the way, the share would immediately have been suspended which is a miracle it did not when the news broke in dec 2017.

If immediate action was not taken at the time by bringing in the very best and yes expensive ‘turn around’ team, we would not be having this conversation now as we would all have lost our investment. This team immediately went about appeasing the loan creditors which miraculously they got right, and bought the Company more time to end of 2021. Again yes, on expensive terms but SNH got to live to ‘fight another day’!

With that achieved, it now went about immediately cutting the non-profitable businesses and realized capital by selling off non-core related businesses.

Simultaneously, it started analyzing and dealing with the thousands of summonses it was being bombarded with from market shareholders. You cannot simply ignore a summons and accordingly, they have all had to be defended or again, this could have led to liquidation. Again, Yes more money and lots of it being spent on consultants, legal teams and the likes, but if this was not done again ‘to fight another day’, then why have wasted all the energy and not simply have pulled the plug in 2017?

Given the enormity of the size of these claims, if they did not find a way to come to some arrangement, come the end of 2021, the loan creditors could pull the plug, again we walk away with NOTHING !

You are very concerned about the amount spent on legal fees and consultants and suggest you would litigate against each of these claimants. Well given there are a few thousand of them and in various jurisdictions, please tell us how many decades you would take to defend this, how much it costs, where the money would come from, how you in the meantime intend keeping the Loan creditors happy and how you intend producing an Audited set of “Unqualified” financials which is not possible with these claims pending.

The court in its wisdom consented to implementing the “Brandaris System” after recognizing there are more than 5000 claimants on that it would be impossible to defend these individually.

SNH also, in its wisdom, while we all agree these ordinary shareholders actually don’t have a claim against the company but against the directors as recently ruled’ recognized that it was impossible to defend each case. so as way to get past this legacy and give the company a chance to survive, came up with an ingenious settlement offer which the majority have accepted.

All this has been done in an effort to try and salvage the company in the face of an onslaught. You must remember, it is not as if SNH have had any choice in the decisions they have had to make, if they did not take these drastic decisions, the company would today have been suspended and liquidated. Then all this has been done whilst still growing the now extremely profitable underlying businesses.

The management have had an extremely challenging task and their reputation would be down the drain if they did not succeed in this ‘turn around’. Here we are contemplating what the share price is going to be in 3-5 years with realistic speculation based on FACTS and the numbers that it could be R30 -R40. If we did not have the Team we have, we would have lost everything.

Please from now on, if you going to make comments and claims, PLEASE back them up with ACTUAL real facts and not just baseless emotional rhetoric !

HOW CAN SHAREHOLDERS GET NOTHING WHEN THERE IS AT LEAST 150 BILLION OF ASSETS LISTED ON THE STOCK EXCHANGE. THE BIGGEST FRAUD WAS ENRON. THE CEO CFO WERE JAILED. ARTHUR ANDERSEN NO LONGER EXISTS. WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE. EVERYONE IS HAVING A PARTY. AND WE MUST BE GREATFUL FOR INCOMPETENT LOUIS. HEATHER WAS GLOATING ON FM THREE YEARS AGO ABOUT HOW SHE SAVED STEINHOFF ONLY TO BE FOUND TO HAVE ALSO BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE MAFIA TWO YEARS LATER. PLEASE DON'T QUESTION MY INTELLECT AND TAKE YOUR CHEERLEADING TO STELLENBOSCH

[Zanme]

Oh poor Zamne, so uninformed and Illogical!

Was not going to reply and comment as your argument or the case you make is baseless and without merit.

Yes, Steinhoff has been the subject of one of the largest fraudulent heists in corporate history and by all accounts, should have been liquidated and ALL shareholders would have lost EVERTHING!

Let us start at he beginning, when the fraud was discovered, SNH were indebted to creditors (not claimants or shareholders or the likes of “contractual Claimants” ) to an amount in excess of 9Bill Euros. They are preferential creditors and the first of ANY proceeds goes to them in full value. A liquidated Steinhoff would not have reached even what is required by them. And by the way, the share would immediately have been suspended which is a miracle it did not when the news broke in dec 2017.

If immediate action was not taken at the time by bringing in the very best and yes expensive ‘turn around’ team, we would not be having this conversation now as we would all have lost our investment. This team immediately went about appeasing the loan creditors which miraculously they got right, and bought the Company more time to end of 2021. Again yes, on expensive terms but SNH got to live to ‘fight another day’!

With that achieved, it now went about immediately cutting the non-profitable businesses and realized capital by selling off non-core related businesses.

Simultaneously, it started analyzing and dealing with the thousands of summonses it was being bombarded with from market shareholders. You cannot simply ignore a summons and accordingly, they have all had to be defended or again, this could have led to liquidation. Again, Yes more money and lots of it being spent on consultants, legal teams and the likes, but if this was not done again ‘to fight another day’, then why have wasted all the energy and not simply have pulled the plug in 2017?

Given the enormity of the size of these claims, if they did not find a way to come to some arrangement, come the end of 2021, the loan creditors could pull the plug, again we walk away with NOTHING !

You are very concerned about the amount spent on legal fees and consultants and suggest you would litigate against each of these claimants. Well given there are a few thousand of them and in various jurisdictions, please tell us how many decades you would take to defend this, how much it costs, where the money would come from, how you in the meantime intend keeping the Loan creditors happy and how you intend producing an Audited set of “Unqualified” financials which is not possible with these claims pending.

The court in its wisdom consented to implementing the “Brandaris System” after recognizing there are more than 5000 claimants on that it would be impossible to defend these individually.

SNH also, in its wisdom, while we all agree these ordinary shareholders actually don’t have a claim against the company but against the directors as recently ruled’ recognized that it was impossible to defend each case. so as way to get past this legacy and give the company a chance to survive, came up with an ingenious settlement offer which the majority have accepted.

All this has been done in an effort to try and salvage the company in the face of an onslaught. You must remember, it is not as if SNH have had any choice in the decisions they have had to make, if they did not take these drastic decisions, the company would today have been suspended and liquidated. Then all this has been done whilst still growing the now extremely profitable underlying businesses.

The management have had an extremely challenging task and their reputation would be down the drain if they did not succeed in this ‘turn around’. Here we are contemplating what the share price is going to be in 3-5 years with realistic speculation based on FACTS and the numbers that it could be R30 -R40. If we did not have the Team we have, we would have lost everything.

Please from now on, if you going to make comments and claims, PLEASE back them up with ACTUAL real facts and not just baseless emotional rhetoric !

I GAVE YOU FIGURES. THE MARKET CAP OF PEPCO AND PEPKOR IS AVAILABLE FOR YOU AS WELL. ARE YOU A LITIGANT OR SOMETHING??? WHY DO YOU GUYS GET SO EXCITED EVERY TIME I REPREMAND THE STELLENBOSCH MAFIA. THESE GUYS ARE CROOKS. I AM FOLLOWING THE THREAD FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS NOW AND ONLY ONE GUY WAS CORRECT AND THAT IS POLLY.GO HAVE A LOOK. HE POINTED OUT THAT THESE GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF INCOMPETENT CROOKS.

[Everlearning]

Oh poor Zamne, so uninformed and Illogical!

 

Was not going to reply and comment as your argument or the case you make is baseless and without merit.

 

Yes, Steinhoff has been the subject of one of the largest fraudulent heists in corporate history and by all accounts, should have been liquidated and ALL shareholders would have lost EVERTHING!

 

Let us start at he beginning, when the fraud was discovered, SNH were indebted to creditors (not claimants or shareholders or the likes of “contractual Claimants” ) to an amount in excess of 9Bill Euros. They are preferential creditors and the first of ANY proceeds goes to them in full value. A liquidated Steinhoff would not have reached even what is required by them. And by the way, the share would immediately have been suspended which is a miracle it did not when the news broke in dec 2017.

 

If immediate action was not taken at the time by bringing in the very best and yes expensive ‘turn around’ team, we would not be having this conversation now as we would all have lost our investment. This team immediately went about appeasing the loan creditors which miraculously they got right, and bought the Company more time to end of 2021. Again yes, on expensive terms but SNH got to live to ‘fight another day’!

 

With that achieved, it now went about immediately cutting the non-profitable businesses and realized capital by selling off non-core related businesses.

 

Simultaneously, it started analyzing and dealing with the thousands of summonses  it was being bombarded with from market shareholders. You cannot simply ignore a summons and accordingly, they have all had to be defended or again, this could have led to liquidation.  Again, Yes more money and lots of it being spent on consultants, legal teams and the likes, but if this was not done again ‘to fight another day’,  then why have wasted all the energy and not simply have pulled the plug in 2017?

 

Given the enormity of the size of these claims, if they did not find a way to come to some arrangement, come the end of 2021, the loan creditors could pull the plug, again we walk away with NOTHING !

 

You are very concerned about the amount spent on legal fees and consultants and suggest you would litigate against each of these claimants. Well given there are a few thousand of them and in various jurisdictions, please tell us how many decades you would take to defend this, how much it costs, where the money would come from, how you in the meantime intend keeping the Loan creditors happy and how you intend producing an Audited set of “Unqualified” financials which is not possible with these claims pending.

 

The court in its wisdom consented to implementing the “Brandaris System” after recognizing there are more than 5000 claimants on that it would be impossible to defend these individually.

 

SNH also, in its wisdom, while we all agree these ordinary shareholders actually don’t have a claim against the company but against the directors as recently ruled’ recognized that it was impossible to defend each case.  so as way to get past this legacy and give the company a chance to survive, came up with an ingenious settlement offer which the majority have accepted.

 

All this has been done in an effort to try and salvage the company in the face of an onslaught.  You must remember, it is not as if SNH have had any choice in the decisions they have had to make, if they did not take these drastic decisions, the company would today have been suspended and liquidated. Then all this has been done whilst still growing the now extremely profitable underlying businesses.

 

The management have had an extremely challenging task and their reputation would be down the drain if they did not succeed in this ‘turn around’. Here we are contemplating what the share price is going to be in 3-5 years with realistic speculation based on FACTS and the numbers that it could be R30 -R40. If we did not have the Team we have, we would have lost everything.

 

Please from now on, if you going to make comments and claims, PLEASE back them up with ACTUAL real facts and not just baseless emotional rhetoric !

 

[Squideye]

SoP voting

Attached Files

•  Committee.pdf   230.32KB   7 downloads

Edited by Squideye, 04 June 2021 - 11:42 AM.

[Zanme]

Zanme, love your work!

You get paid R50mil, because you should be smart enough to avoid having to get consultants.

If management didn't do the fancy footwork. Pepkor paid down debt of R6 billion in one year with Covid.

In 10 years from the date of Markus sending the email ie in 2027. Steinhoff could have been debt free. If they used the cash from Pepkor and Pepco properly.

So in 2027 we would have had a group with no debt and using the current value or Pepco at R100 billion and Pepkor stake of R50 billion. In 10 years from Markus day we would have a group worth R150 billion conservatively. Surely management could have presented the sums to anyone. So how can any shareholder sue if there is conservatively this promise of value. We talking 20 times higher than the current price. But instead these guys have been just handing out our assets. That is negligence and I can use a lot stronger words then that in my opinion. Good old Stellenbosch are having their cake and eating it. A condition of this great settlement must be that they cancel all of their shares. They will get Pepkor and benefit from Pepco. This is ludicrous.

[Bubble]

Zanme, love your work!

 

You get paid R50mil, because you should be smart enough to avoid having to get consultants.

[Zanme]

Exactly just look at Warren Buffets philosophy around consultants. These guys are incompetent and crooked beyond belief.

So Steinhoff currently has two groups of shareholders litigants old Stellenbosch Mafia and us. Why should one group of shareholders obtain benefit over another. With all the drama this group is financially stable and can settle its debts and time has proven that. So what exactly are these crooks suing for. If it is this big fraud then they need to sue the perpetrators. If they don't pay this claim the value will sit in the group and thereby benefit everyone including the perpetrators in Stellenbosch. On separate note Louis needs to be sued for gross negligence in dealing with this and the cost of all consultants and special Americans. And for recklessly trading by over remmunerating himself from a group that he and Heather called precarious. Yes Heather I am a crook as well needs to be sued. This is actually how this needs to change. But Steinhoff did nothing wrong. Stellenbosch did the wrongs. But actually the wrongs are turning out to be not so wrong after all. And the real wrong doers are Louis Heather and whoever put the group into this.

[Zanme]

I can see that case being made.... Steinhoff defrauds billions from the world, but promises to restructure itself and we should believe it? Much like the toad carrying the scorpion across the river....... I'm certain half of the consultants and PwC play was a PR ploy, to build credibility and trust again. Letting the world know that the rotten apples have been purged from the tree.

Exactly just look at Warren Buffets philosophy around consultants. These guys are incompetent and crooked beyond belief.

[sommerso]

Delta you should be crying with the way things are turning out at Steinhoff. Yes I would have managed this far better. I wrote emails to management at the beginning asking them why do they even need PwC or the fancy Americans and still pay themselves. I would never have wasted money on nonsense like that to start of with. I would have restructured the debt on my own these are cash cow businesses they pay their own debt they don't need American consultants. I would never have conceded to any of the tantrums from Christo but would have handed the claims back to him. Stellenbosch is a small place you tell me these guys are not acting for each other thereby destroying value for us? I would definitely have gotten rid of everything linked to Christo and his godson including Louis and Heather oh we found dirt on her as well that one. I would have got management who wants to work to create value for me and not management whos plan is to retire as a billionare.

 

I can see that case being made.... Steinhoff defrauds billions from the world, but promises to restructure itself and we should believe it? Much like the toad carrying the scorpion across the river....... I'm certain half of the consultants and PwC play was a PR ploy, to build credibility and trust again. Letting the world know that the rotten apples have been purged from the tree. 

[sommerso]

Latest Steinhoff court action could improve payout to shareholders @ https://www.moneyweb...o-shareholders/

 

 

So the creditors ( again ) swayed the baton. This feels similar to Ascendis recently. Steinhoff is in actuality at mercy of the creditors to get anything done. Pay the ferryman. If the creditors didn't sign up for the CVA, Steinhoff wouldn't have nearly made it thus far and liquidation was the only outcome leaving everyone and all the shareholders crying foul with nothing but tears. Don't underestimate the games of billionaires. All the financials are all made up of 1 motto... and Mr Crab says it best.... "Money, I love Money" ...  if the institutions kept hold of their bonds and not panic sold it for c's on the euro's then the creditors that bought them probably wouldn't have had all the balls in their courts. But you don't buy the debts of a multibillion Euro company in trouble because of your altruistic nature and you want to appeal to the humanity of Mr Market. 

Zanme is right for disliking the capitalist system. I won't ever in my lifetime see R10m, nevermind R111m in 2 years, but I know as the mechanic of the ship, she will not sail anywhere without me, yet the Captain that has GPS and a team of people around him who sits and sips champagne with the guests get's all the praise..... this is Capitalism. One day it will finally fail I'm certain of it and somehow a more inclusive economic system will be born from it, but until then the cards that we are dealt we have to make the best of. Leon has no obligation to us ( the smaller shareholders). Just as we don't have any obligation to feed the ants in our house, we feed our wives and kids (those shareholders that has significant interest and make the most noise), the ants get crumbs and if the neighbour has better tasting crumbs, the ants go there. We decided to invest and if we don't like it, we can take our money elsewhere. 

 

Life doesn't pick you out of a line up to earn R111m a year, it isn't the Powerball, you work your ambitious ass off to get there and you step on a few people along the way. But you plan that career and you carve your career to get there. Not sure why I felt the need to say that. In the end it is the same with every company in trouble, like our mother's told us, eat what I give you or go to bed hungry .....  

 

 

On an aside .... is it just me or is this a more objective piece of journalism by Ms Crotty? 

Edited by sommerso, 04 June 2021 - 07:37 AM.