15225 replies to this topic

[andi222]

Guys SENS is out.

Looks very promising that it will be a success!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is progress

Sent from my SM-G973F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Bubble]

What a chop! Can he just go and sit on his farm in the Kalahari and get out of everyone lives.

 

He is no Guru, his own best mate Whitey did not even trust him.

 

https://www.news24.c...panies-20201006

 

This is exactly what is not happening currently at SNH currently.

Exactly what is not happening currently at SNH

[Investment novice]

some nice interest....

[Zanme]

No one can tell you where the share price will go exactly. We just know for sure if the group will be liquidated we will go to zero, but if the group can survive the share price will rise.

Everyone invested here knows the risks and should act accordingly.

Yesterday the long outstanding AFS from the Steinhoff Investment Holding were released for 2016 and 2017. This is again a huge step towards the right direction.

Also very very interesting to note is the difference in the going concern note from interim 2020 to 2017. Please note that the going concern assessment always applies to the date of issue of the AFS. So the going concern note in 2017 is more current then the one from the interim financials.

Interim 2020:
Going concern
"In determining the appropriate basis of preparation of the 2020 Condensed Consolidated Interim Financial Statements, the board of directors is required to consider whether the Group and the Company can continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. The Group’s going concern assessment is similar to the going concern assessment included in the 2019 Consolidated Financial Statements. The Group and the Company’s cash flow forecasts, adjusted for the impact of the Litigation Settlement Proposal detailed in note 8.2, indicate that both the Group and the Company can, based on certain critical assumptions, continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future, namely for 12 months after the date of authorisation of the 2020 Condensed Consolidated Interim Financial Statements

2017: (However as at 2 October 2020)
GOING CONCERN
In determining the appropriate basis of preparation of the consolidated and separate financial statements, the board of the Company is required to consider whether the Steinhoff Investments Group and Company can continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. Management has taken into account all available information about the foreseeable future relating to Steinhoff Investments Group, currently, does not intend to liquidate the entity and plans to recover its assets and settle its debt in the normal course of business. The Steinhoff Investments Group and the Company’s cash flow forecasts are adjusted for the impact of the litigation settlement proposal as announced on 27 July 2020 by Steinhoff N.V. and detailed in note 22 of these consolidated annual financial statements.

Guys this is a major milestone if management has changed their view in just a few months from we are screwed, to we will not liquidate and maximize shareholder value in the normal course of the business.

What are your guys thoughts?

Thanks Andi something positive for a change

[DayTraderDad]

Andi a question for you about inseder trading:

 

So all parties in the discussion about claims are they allowed to buy shares in SNH?

 

At what stage would they be allowed to buy?

 

Would it be possible for them to buy shares before the negociations are complete?

[DayTraderDad]

Take a small position and move on for now....lots of value out there

I made some decent profits on other high risk shares ie CLH,NPK,SUI,HYP 

Positive 65% profits on the above 4 alone

 

Negative 30% on SNH and ASC

 

It will happen when it happens for the above 2...lol

Well said vishalsur indeed great opportunities out there but non with the resileant business that SNH have. I am now over 70% of my portfolio on SNH indeed call me mad but the more it drops the more I buy. I am hocked line and sinker!!!

 

But a business that is growing under these conditions is certainly with having and that is my investment strategy.

 

So which sector should we look? The reality of Covid people are more poor therefore good bye fancy shops.

 

In December 2018 already at the Somerset West Mall the only general dealer shops that were busy was PEP and Ackerman so how much more busy will they be?

 

In Europe with 600 mil people PEPCO Group has a winning recepy and growing at 14% with lots of space to grow.

 

So for me I cannot see any other opportunity with such potential. How ever this is just my thoughts and not designed to tell people what to do with their money what I am doing I guess put my money where my mouth is!!!

 

Investing in SNH a person needs to be patient its very complex I dont relly believe in this forum anyone has any idea how deficult and complex these claims settlement discussions are.

[DayTraderDad]

How much lower will Steinhoff go? Or to put it another way how much higher will management remuneration as a percentage of market cap go? Daddy Andi any idea?

Hi Zanme, as Andi said no one can say where the share price is going on the short term. At present the share is being priced by day trading and definatly not buy long term holdings.

 

I see three possible scenarios: One best to worse scenarios

 

Scenario 1 :

 

The claims are settled due to the delay in the settlement discussion I am expecting that settlement will be at higher levels maybe E1.2bil. The fact that there is no leaked news in the media its very important because obviously there are very serious discussion taking place. Conservatorium is the problem for me making it deficult to settle. Why? simple CW is the bigest claimant and he is fighting Coservatorium so can imagine very tough discussions going on.

However if the claims are settled then we will see a serious jump never seen before because all institutions will want to get their hands in shares.

 

Scenario 2: 

The claims discussions fails and SNH management has to revert to protected liquidation to resturcture the company and pay off all the claims.

In this case we will wake up one morning with SNH management anouncing the suspention of trading on SNH share to prevent the colapse of the price and give it time to impelment the restructure plan and enter on payment agreeents with the various parties.

As shareholders we will be fine just you can no longer sell or buy shares until all the restructure is complete. Therefore make sure if the share is going to be suspended not going to make you broke.

 

Scenario 3:

 

This is the final destruction of wealth in SNH whereby the creditors say enough is enough we finished playing with claimens and we want our money. That will be the end of SNH.

 

My call I believe reason will prevails and we will end up with scenarion 1. 

[DayTraderDad]

No one can tell you where the share price will go exactly. We just know for sure if the group will be liquidated we will go to zero, but if the group can survive the share price will rise.

 

Everyone invested here knows the risks and should act accordingly. 

 

Yesterday the long outstanding AFS from the Steinhoff Investment Holding were released for 2016 and 2017. This is again a huge step towards the right direction. 

 

Also very very interesting to note is the difference in the going concern note from interim 2020 to 2017. Please note that the going concern assessment always applies to the date of issue of the AFS. So the going concern note in 2017 is more current then the one from the interim financials.

 

Interim 2020:

Going concern

"In determining the appropriate basis of preparation of the 2020 Condensed Consolidated Interim Financial Statements, the board of directors is required to consider whether the Group and the Company can continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. The Group’s going concern assessment is similar to the going concern assessment included in the 2019 Consolidated Financial Statements. The Group and the Company’s cash flow forecasts, adjusted for the impact of the Litigation Settlement Proposal detailed in note 8.2, indicate that both the Group and the Company can, based on certain critical assumptions, continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future, namely for 12 months after the date of authorisation of the 2020 Condensed Consolidated Interim Financial Statements

 

2017: (However as at 2 October 2020)

GOING CONCERN

In determining the appropriate basis of preparation of the consolidated and separate financial statements, the board of the Company is required to consider whether the Steinhoff Investments Group and Company can continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. Management has taken into account all available information about the foreseeable future relating to Steinhoff Investments Group, currently, does not intend to liquidate the entity and plans to recover its assets and settle its debt in the normal course of business. The Steinhoff Investments Group and the Company’s cash flow forecasts are adjusted for the impact of the litigation settlement proposal as announced on 27 July 2020 by Steinhoff N.V. and detailed in note 22 of these consolidated annual financial statements.

 

Guys this is a major milestone if management has changed their view in just a few months from we are screwed, to we will not liquidate and maximize shareholder value in the normal course of the business.

 

What are your guys thoughts?

Hi Andi great post!! I also noted the suttle diference. Lets be frank there is only one way of fixing this and that is trade out of debt. For me what is importnt is settling of the cliams.

[vishalsur]

Take a small position and move on for now....lots of value out there

I made some decent profits on other high risk shares ie CLH,NPK,SUI,HYP 

Positive 65% profits on the above 4 alone

 

Negative 30% on SNH and ASC

 

It will happen when it happens for the above 2...lol

 

 

[andi222]

No one can tell you where the share price will go exactly. We just know for sure if the group will be liquidated we will go to zero, but if the group can survive the share price will rise.

 

Everyone invested here knows the risks and should act accordingly. 

 

Yesterday the long outstanding AFS from the Steinhoff Investment Holding were released for 2016 and 2017. This is again a huge step towards the right direction. 

 

Also very very interesting to note is the difference in the going concern note from interim 2020 to 2017. Please note that the going concern assessment always applies to the date of issue of the AFS. So the going concern note in 2017 is more current then the one from the interim financials.

 

Interim 2020:

Going concern

"In determining the appropriate basis of preparation of the 2020 Condensed Consolidated Interim Financial Statements, the board of directors is required to consider whether the Group and the Company can continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. The Group’s going concern assessment is similar to the going concern assessment included in the 2019 Consolidated Financial Statements. The Group and the Company’s cash flow forecasts, adjusted for the impact of the Litigation Settlement Proposal detailed in note 8.2, indicate that both the Group and the Company can, based on certain critical assumptions, continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future, namely for 12 months after the date of authorisation of the 2020 Condensed Consolidated Interim Financial Statements

 

2017: (However as at 2 October 2020)

GOING CONCERN

In determining the appropriate basis of preparation of the consolidated and separate financial statements, the board of the Company is required to consider whether the Steinhoff Investments Group and Company can continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. Management has taken into account all available information about the foreseeable future relating to Steinhoff Investments Group, currently, does not intend to liquidate the entity and plans to recover its assets and settle its debt in the normal course of business. The Steinhoff Investments Group and the Company’s cash flow forecasts are adjusted for the impact of the litigation settlement proposal as announced on 27 July 2020 by Steinhoff N.V. and detailed in note 22 of these consolidated annual financial statements.

 

Guys this is a major milestone if management has changed their view in just a few months from we are screwed, to we will not liquidate and maximize shareholder value in the normal course of the business.

 

What are your guys thoughts?

Edited by andi222, 03 October 2020 - 11:00 AM.

[Zanme]

How much lower will Steinhoff go? Or to put it another way how much higher will management remuneration as a percentage of market cap go? Daddy Andi any idea?

[DeltaHedge]

Right now I am trying to fight the margin calls, it needs to HOLD then launch to 1.50 so I can breathe again

Edited by DeltaHedge, 27 September 2020 - 08:39 PM.

[Investment novice]

Hi, based on your question, don't see carona as an issue.

With legal settlement...see r1.30 to

Expect with debt to be refinanced and chipped away with ipo pepko to be at r3. And hovering there until we start seeing some dividends ....3 years we looking at a different entity and yes r10 potentially something we could get to....

If we get some big claims paid to snh from delloites and insurers, we could see some tue numbers above reached sooner.

[DayTraderDad]

I challange you all on this forum to take a view on where will the share price settle once claims are settled?

 

My call R2.90 that is were it was when CW decided to sue SNH.

 

Comon guys put your money were your mouth is!!!!

 

What will be the share prce once there is a vaccine for COVID?

 

My take over R12 after claims settlement.

 

And yes I see R25  still on the horizon!!!

[DayTraderDad]

I see a lot of guys here think that paying management in shares would be a necessity. I would agree with this if we would be sitting in a different situation regarding the share price.

Here are some points which I think you guys should consider before wishing for things that would have an adverse impact.

1) Management has received a bonus of close to 6 Million € for 2018 and 2019. Now given a share price of 5 euro cents this would have diluted us by 120 Million shares or close to 3% of the total issued capital. Now adding 2020 to this assuming another 3 Million € bonus at 4 cents would give them an additional 75 Million shares. So if we would have followed this approach management would have received close to 200 Million shares or close to 5% of the total issued share capital.

I think you all would agree that this would not make any sense at all and that if they would have been paid in shares shareholders would have moaned they are taking up the company for free.

2) If you guys have a look at the bonus management has received its mostly long term and it depends on certain performance measures. So here already management needs to perform well to even get the bonus. So they have a very good incentive to work in the best interest of the company.

Happy to discuss any comments you guys have.

Hi Andi dont forget that SNH at present needs to buy shares to cancel to ensure they comply with the Dutch requirements of equity to shares issues so were is the room to issue more shares? People not thinking straight!!!

[DayTraderDad]

Dtd I don’t see this comment as appropriate. This is a well thought out view and not aimed at anyone on here.

As much as you have been pumping the share non stop for years, which is fine, you should allow others their opinion and stick to playing the ball, not the man...

While I believe it’s a good company with with lots of potential I personally think LDP needs to get a move on with things and that ALL SENIOR LEADERSHIP throughout the group should receive all incentives and bonuses in stock awards to ensure they are financially motivated to sort things out - this will also help a lot in regaining investors confidence IMHO
 

Hi LarryK the reference to the R25 a share is towards me because I was the one that said it however. * I still claim that and can back it with my figures>

 

R25 =E1.5 at a PE of 20 for a fast growing company like PEPCO we looking at EPS of E0.075  or Euro 309 mil if you look that PEPCO EBITDA is growing at 12% (excluding COVID effects) you can well inderstand by 2023  the E 800k interest payment will be well covered and its not impossible for SNH to have a profit of E309 before other costs.

 

I was xpecting this earlier but at the time I had no idea we would be witnessing COVID.

 

I backed it with my calculations. Lots of wafle means nothing its facts that talk. Instead of people writing SA-s (to hippe feelings) why not simply state facts what backs up thier theories.One simple topic is the talk about LDP it is very comon comanies employ diferent character experience types of CEO-s depending in the state of the company at the time. For steinhoff the issue is legal therefore you employ a CEO with good legal standing it would make no sense to have  CEO that is design to drive profits in a company like Jooster and everybody was so gulable at the time he was the MR MARKET legend. Its the lack of understanding simple management principles that I find all this talk useless and view it as simple opinionated wafle. Sorry pal which I has better comment but we need to face reality.

[andi222]

I see a lot of guys here think that paying management in shares would be a necessity. I would agree with this if we would be sitting in a different situation regarding the share price.

Here are some points which I think you guys should consider before wishing for things that would have an adverse impact.

1) Management has received a bonus of close to 6 Million € for 2018 and 2019. Now given a share price of 5 euro cents this would have diluted us by 120 Million shares or close to 3% of the total issued capital. Now adding 2020 to this assuming another 3 Million € bonus at 4 cents would give them an additional 75 Million shares. So if we would have followed this approach management would have received close to 200 Million shares or close to 5% of the total issued share capital.

I think you all would agree that this would not make any sense at all and that if they would have been paid in shares shareholders would have moaned they are taking up the company for free.

2) If you guys have a look at the bonus management has received its mostly long term and it depends on certain performance measures. So here already management needs to perform well to even get the bonus. So they have a very good incentive to work in the best interest of the company.

Happy to discuss any comments you guys have.

[LarryK]

Dtd I don’t see this comment as appropriate. This is a well thought out view and not aimed at anyone on here.

As much as you have been pumping the share non stop for years, which is fine, you should allow others their opinion and stick to playing the ball, not the man...

While I believe it’s a good company with with lots of potential I personally think LDP needs to get a move on with things and that ALL SENIOR LEADERSHIP throughout the group should receive all incentives and bonuses in stock awards to ensure they are financially motivated to sort things out - this will also help a lot in regaining investors confidence IMHO

Haha welcome back POLLY!!!

[Bushmanbob]

Thank you  for the response.

However you didn't answer the question or maybe didn't understand where i was coming from.

 

At R2.00 to 0.70c some folks making arguments here which you seem to agree with that LDP is trying to prove poverty so as to get the claimants to accept the so called offer. Now if the price fell to R0.10c on Monday will you still accept that same poverty argument?

That is my question which has nothing to do with what you will do with your shares. That is your business..

 

My Point:

Reading through this thread day in day out , you will notice same posters who have a major holding/ interest in this company at much higher costs and who will find every positive reason to post, when share price drops , that  its actually for a good reason which helps Steinhoff .Typical of a good salesman trying to sell you a product.

 

 

 

 

This kind of posting which has been going on from the time the share was R20.00 ( initial drop),  has already and will create  a whole lot of " BAG HOLDERS" which it has certainly done reading by the amount of new members who have crept out of the woodwork and who still think this share has value because of misinformation being posted here on a daily basis. ( like a tape recorder  or a professional salesman using the same pitch day in and day out). Figures of price projection to R25.00  and  dividends within 2 years , multinational conglomerate, cheaper zero interest rates in Euro and so forth...make ones head spin..

 

PS : If it is indeed LDP intention to plead poverty and im sure its not , then doesn't that make him an unhonourable  person exactly like Jooste? Someone who is trying to mislead or lie. Surely you would not want a person with these kinds of morals to be running your company.

My apologies - in reply to your question I am not convinced he has manipulated the situation to plead poverty - at least not in such simple terms and certainly not in the terms you describe. 

 

I would expect any seasoned board to have a single aim however they should plan for more than one eventuality such as a strategy involving an elevated share price and another for a declining share price.  At this level I would also expect the strategy to remain fluid (although not the outcome) eg: not even LDP and his board could have predicted COVID or the consequences, which I believe has further contributed to the decay in share price - which in turn has perhaps assisted in pressuring claimants to settle.

I am not interested in the sales pitch and you may be misconstruing the information shared on this thread by the pro-LDP / Bullish faction.  I understand the views to be in the spirit of sharing information (with the odd exception).  Many of the Bulls are sharing why they/we are excited by this opportunity and I for one have found the information most interesting / informative.  If someone is lazy enough to submit only to the opinions and exchanges on this thread, then they are gamblers and will probably soon find themselves separated from their wealth.  I just think perhaps some of us are getting tired of hearing the same old song about LDP being over-paid.  Now, if you told me something factual, whether it be negative or positive, I would be extremely interested and grateful.

 

Have a good one!!  



 

[DayTraderDad]

Thank you  for the response.

However you didn't answer the question or maybe didn't understand where i was coming from.

 

At R2.00 to 0.70c some folks making arguments here which you seem to agree with that LDP is trying to prove poverty so as to get the claimants to accept the so called offer. Now if the price fell to R0.10c on Monday will you still accept that same poverty argument?

That is my question which has nothing to do with what you will do with your shares. That is your business..

 

My Point:

Reading through this thread day in day out , you will notice same posters who have a major holding/ interest in this company at much higher costs and who will find every positive reason to post, when share price drops , that  its actually for a good reason which helps Steinhoff .Typical of a good salesman trying to sell you a product.

 

 

 

 

This kind of posting which has been going on from the time the share was R20.00 ( initial drop),  has already and will create  a whole lot of " BAG HOLDERS" which it has certainly done reading by the amount of new members who have crept out of the woodwork and who still think this share has value because of misinformation being posted here on a daily basis. ( like a tape recorder  or a professional salesman using the same pitch day in and day out). Figures of price projection to R25.00  and  dividends within 2 years , multinational conglomerate, cheaper zero interest rates in Euro and so forth...make ones head spin..

 

PS : If it is indeed LDP intention to plead poverty and im sure its not , then doesn't that make him an unhonourable  person exactly like Jooste? Someone who is trying to mislead or lie. Surely you would not want a person with these kinds of morals to be running your company.

Haha welcome back POLLY!!!