15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

Damn this share is giving me grey hair haha. But just stay strong. I mean nothing has changed since the GS was proposed and we where sitting at 5 cents. Now with no news it dropped to 3.5 cents.

 

Currently the only big investor is PIC - As far as I know their shares are hedged so they wont sell.

After that we only have Vanguard who hold just below 3% - Hopefully they will hold

The rest is mostly held by smaller institutions and small private investors. The CFO has previously mentioned that there are more than 100 000 private investors. The problem with these are that they set Stop losses or loose their nerves and sell at these prices. 

 

We need an Update from Steinhoff side- As soon as we get on we might see a spike or a further drop depending on the outcome.

What is a bit worrisome is that CW has sold all his shares. However this decision cannot legally have been made by him because that would trigger insider trading. I think that he was forced to sell due to margin calls. But again he knows more then we do so it is a bit worrisome.

Citigroup as close to 5%.

 

See list from https://www.afm.nl/e...le-deelnemingen

 

Datum meldingsplicht Meldingsplichtige Aantal stemmen Soort aandeel ENG Totale deelneming

15/9/2020 Citigroup Inc. 9 150 115 Swap 4,97%

15/9/2020 Citigroup Inc. 100 684 415 Put option 4,97%

15/9/2020 Citigroup Inc. 75 513 318 Call-option 4,97%

15/9/2020 Citigroup Inc. 28 942 848 Ordinary share 4,97%

11/10/2018 Investec Asset Management Limited 123 813 933 Ordinary share 2,87%

11/6/2018 Coronation Fund Managers Ltd 112 865 281 Ordinary share 2,62%

16/3/2018 BlackRock, Inc. 17 266 369 Ordinary share 2,41%

16/3/2018 BlackRock, Inc. 100 119 144 Ordinary share 2,41%

16/3/2018 BlackRock, Inc. 419 342 Contract for difference 2,41%

7/2/2018 Bank of America Corporation 106 265 922 Ordinary share 2,90%

14/12/2017 J.N.S.  Du Plessis 838 582 Ordinary share 0,02%

14/12/2017 K.J.  Grove 1 540 283 Ordinary share 0,04%

14/12/2017 F.J.  Nel 2 308 727 Ordinary share 0,05%

14/12/2017 Business Venture Investments No 1499 (Pty) Ltd. 43 229 864 Ordinary share 1,00%

14/12/2017 S.J.  Grobler 4 768 510 Ordinary share 0,11%

14/12/2017 M.  Nel 435 739 Ordinary share 0,01%

14/12/2017 D.M. van der Merwe 5 049 622 Ordinary share 0,12%

14/12/2017 A.B.  La Grange 1 900 576 Ordinary share 0,04%

14/12/2017 P.  Pohlmann 9 023 429 Ordinary share 0,21%

14/12/2017 Public Investment Corporation SOC Ltd 426 970 560 Ordinary share 9,91%

30/1/2017 GIC Private Limited 127 140 500 Ordinary share 2,99%

16/9/2016 Steinhoff Sikhulasonke Investments (RF) Proprietary Ltd. 40 377 900 Ordinary share 1,03%

7/12/2015 M.J.  Jooste 1 255 182 420 Ordinary share 1,77%

[andi222]

it's hectic to think how badly PIC has done on their investments (Ascendis,Aspen,mtn,sasol etc.) I guess it just comes down to the performance of the JSE equities in general - crap except for the likes of Naspers. 

So steinhoff are currently priced at a liquidation value, surely a PE firm would have considered buying it up at this price, I mean its peanuts to some of these PE firms. 

I know its obviously because of lack of clean audit and litigation claims but still we know there is still value within.

My other question if there was no way to continue surely the towel would have been thrown in by now?

 

Their public relations is a bit shite, they need to say something, even if we have heard it before. 

 

Yeah I really don't want to know how bad PIC has performed but luckily that's not our problem. 

Yes definitely at liquidation value, I mean there is 150 Million left on the market cap. Steinhoff has enough cash on hands to at least survive till end of next year. Creditors just need to give them a bit more breathing space. Thus Steinhoff is trying to extend the maturity to basically end of 2023. 

 

As mentioned previously I still believe strongly that the plan management is following has good chances of success. Thus I'm increasing my holding as we go and the cheaper it gets the more shares I get. Hopefully there will be some tough/crazy guys like me who buy more shares and keep them in the long run. I mean at some point then the share supply to the market will dry up and with some kind of positive news no more shares will be left for people to buy. They then need to pay higher prices. 

 

Also if you e-mail investor relations at Steinhoff they respond the same day. So they are quite good in this point. 

 

They will publish an update as soon as possible believe me. However I think they want to get everything sorted before something is announced. They are very precautious these days. So they will publish something once they have all approvals or if they are certain that the GS is for sure declined by the parties. And everything that involves numerous parties takes time. 

 

So guys its your call if you believe in this or not. In my investment history I have seen a lot of companies filing for insolvency. A common theme there was that their operations had no light in the tunnel and they generated losses. With Steinhoff all operating units produce profits and there will be growth. I mean the reported EBITDA for half year 2020 was sitting at 702 Million €. And cash generated in operations was at 472 Million €. So operations wise this is a gem.

 

Its just these litigations that create this massive uncertainty. And management is working on this as a top priority. So lets give them a bit more time. 

 

People and my wife call me insane when I tell them I buy more Steinhoff shares each month, they might be right but at least if all things fail I will have learned a lesson for future speculations. 

Edited by andi222, 22 September 2020 - 12:06 PM.

[DeltaHedge]

Damn this share is giving me grey hair haha. But just stay strong. I mean nothing has changed since the GS was proposed and we where sitting at 5 cents. Now with no news it dropped to 3.5 cents.

 

Currently the only big investor is PIC - As far as I know their shares are hedged so they wont sell.

After that we only have Vanguard who hold just below 3% - Hopefully they will hold

The rest is mostly held by smaller institutions and small private investors. The CFO has previously mentioned that there are more than 100 000 private investors. The problem with these are that they set Stop losses or loose their nerves and sell at these prices. 

 

We need an Update from Steinhoff side- As soon as we get on we might see a spike or a further drop depending on the outcome.

What is a bit worrisome is that CW has sold all his shares. However this decision cannot legally have been made by him because that would trigger insider trading. I think that he was forced to sell due to margin calls. But again he knows more then we do so it is a bit worrisome.

 

it's hectic to think how badly PIC has done on their investments (Ascendis,Aspen,mtn,sasol etc.) I guess it just comes down to the performance of the JSE equities in general - crap except for the likes of Naspers. 

So steinhoff are currently priced at a liquidation value, surely a PE firm would have considered buying it up at this price, I mean its peanuts to some of these PE firms. 

I know its obviously because of lack of clean audit and litigation claims but still we know there is still value within.

My other question if there was no way to continue surely the towel would have been thrown in by now?

 

Their public relations is a bit shite, they need to say something, even if we have heard it before. 

[Investment novice]

Hiya, the challenge is the 100000 individual investors or speculators. They get nervous or they trigger the stop loss as you say. For those that hold we jeed to think of how best to time a nice chunk purchase at a lower price...but always difficult to time this....

[andi222]

IN, try give investor relations a call, tell them to hurry the fook up haha. 

 

 

Damn this share is giving me grey hair haha. But just stay strong. I mean nothing has changed since the GS was proposed and we where sitting at 5 cents. Now with no news it dropped to 3.5 cents.

 

Currently the only big investor is PIC - As far as I know their shares are hedged so they wont sell.

After that we only have Vanguard who hold just below 3% - Hopefully they will hold

The rest is mostly held by smaller institutions and small private investors. The CFO has previously mentioned that there are more than 100 000 private investors. The problem with these are that they set Stop losses or loose their nerves and sell at these prices. 

 

We need an Update from Steinhoff side- As soon as we get on we might see a spike or a further drop depending on the outcome.

What is a bit worrisome is that CW has sold all his shares. However this decision cannot legally have been made by him because that would trigger insider trading. I think that he was forced to sell due to margin calls. But again he knows more then we do so it is a bit worrisome.

[DeltaHedge]

Eina 70c resistance broken....we need good news soon to stabilize or this share can be anywhere....

 

IN, try give investor relations a call, tell them to hurry the fook up haha. 

 

[Investment novice]

Eina 70c resistance broken....we need good news soon to stabilize or this share can be anywhere....

[DayTraderDad]

Another suttle initiative not going noticed:   

 

https://www.retail-w...7035320.article

 

Poundland to launch online delivery as part of ‘biggest ever transformation’

By Hugh Radojev16 July 2020

 

Poundland could delay its response to the CMA

Value retailer Poundland is set to launch its first-ever online delivery service and revamp its store estate as part of a new transformation programme.

 

As part of what Poundland called “the biggest transformation programme in its history”, it said it would begin trialling a home delivery service from early next year.

 

The discount retailer also said it would be revamping its estate, splitting stores into three types: ‘destination’; ‘core’; and ‘convenience’. 

 

Poundland said destination stores would carry the “fullest range of products” including food, homeware, clothing and health and beauty, while convenience stores would cater to “grab-and-go easy shopping”. 

[DayTraderDad]

Share price keeps falling without any news/Update. So many parties involved however nothing is leaked out. I wonder when we will get that first update.

 

My personal opinion regarding the approvals they need:

 

-SA reserve bank: Shouldn't be a problem as Steinhoff remains biggest Shareholder and CW is a SA resident. Only problem we might see is if other litigants take their money out of SA.

-Creditors: Doubt they will pull the plug. They can extend the debt at high interest rates and get even more guarantees. Also it is also in their best interest that the litigations are solved. Only problem I could see here is that they need to waive any claims against Steinhoff. However I think Steinhoff has talked to creditors before releasing the proposal.

-Litigants: We need 50% to get this approved. In other words we only need CW and the Conservatorium to approve the deal. CW wants this to be solved, however the Conservatorium want his fair share so they need to solve their issues before they can accept the proposal. I think this is where the crux is lying. Does anyone of you guys know how much CW still owes the Conservatorium? As far as I know CW has borrowed 1.6billion € to buy Steinhoff shares. On the day the share collapsed they have sold 20% of the shares at around 70 cents a share. So he got around 560 Mil €. So now he still needs to repay around 1 billion. With the proposal he would be getting around 450 Mil €. So there is still this massive difference that needs to be paid from somewhere.

 

So I think as soon as these parties have agreed on something we will get an update. 

Hi Andi for me the issue lies in the CW and Conservatorium which like you said needs to be settle. I believe at the end CW will settle for 50% of the 450mil and Conservatorium for the other 50%. There is a court case pending in Amsterdam between the two. Of interest is Citibank buying up all those swaps, puts, calls and shares on the 15th September. Interesting to me is they sold their claims to CW to Conservatorium. Today has been a blood bath in all exchanges so no surprise to me the fall. Gave me more chance to pick up another bakkie full.

 

For me this is simple claimants refuse then creditors take everything. Further the courts have already talked shareholders cannot sue company or director its for the company to do that so for me its just time.

[Investment novice]

Hey Andi, expected downward pressure due to the large volume of shares available and large individual ownership with lack of stability. I think it's just range bound hotel there is good news....until them this share can really go anywhere.....i posted previously on this. Need some consistent sens and progress to make head way

[Investment novice]

Hey Amanda, expected downward pressure due to the large volume of shares available and large individual ownership with lack of stability. I think it's just range bound hotel there is good news....until them this share can really go anywhere.....i posted previously on this. Need some consistent sens and progress to make head way

[andi222]

Does anyone know where Captain is? Has he sold his holding?

[andi222]

Share price keeps falling without any news/Update. So many parties involved however nothing is leaked out. I wonder when we will get that first update.

 

My personal opinion regarding the approvals they need:

 

-SA reserve bank: Shouldn't be a problem as Steinhoff remains biggest Shareholder and CW is a SA resident. Only problem we might see is if other litigants take their money out of SA.

-Creditors: Doubt they will pull the plug. They can extend the debt at high interest rates and get even more guarantees. Also it is also in their best interest that the litigations are solved. Only problem I could see here is that they need to waive any claims against Steinhoff. However I think Steinhoff has talked to creditors before releasing the proposal.

-Litigants: We need 50% to get this approved. In other words we only need CW and the Conservatorium to approve the deal. CW wants this to be solved, however the Conservatorium want his fair share so they need to solve their issues before they can accept the proposal. I think this is where the crux is lying. Does anyone of you guys know how much CW still owes the Conservatorium? As far as I know CW has borrowed 1.6billion € to buy Steinhoff shares. On the day the share collapsed they have sold 20% of the shares at around 70 cents a share. So he got around 560 Mil €. So now he still needs to repay around 1 billion. With the proposal he would be getting around 450 Mil €. So there is still this massive difference that needs to be paid from somewhere.

 

So I think as soon as these parties have agreed on something we will get an update. 

 

 

[Tom]

Markus Jooste guns for secret PwC report Ironically, in a bid to get hold of the PwC report, Steinhoff’s former CEO accuses the retailer of bending the truth

Steinhoff’s former CEO, Markus Jooste, has upped the ante in the battle to get his hands on the PwC forensic report into the company, which the fraud-ridden retailer insists must remain secret.

It’s ironic that Jooste is the person testing Steinhoff’s defences, seeking to prise out the report in the interests of "transparency", given that he is at the centre of PwC’s finding that over more than a decade, he helped mastermind R106bn in false or fictitious deals.

 

https://www.business...ret-pwc-report/

[DayTraderDad]

Good article: https://mg.co.za/opi...te-adventurers/

[DayTraderDad]

Disclosure Of Substantial Holding Notification

 

Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.

(Incorporated in the Netherlands)

(Registration number: 63570173)

Share Code: SNH

ISIN: NL0011375019

 

DISCLOSURE OF SUBSTANTIAL HOLDING NOTIFICATION

Steinhoff International Holdings N.V. (the “Company”)

 

The AFM (the Netherlands Authority for Financial Markets) has informed the Company on 17

September 2020 that a substantial holdings notification related to Steinhoff International Holdings

N.V. had been received by the AFM.

 

 

 Date of transaction:                              15 September 2020

 

 Person obliged to notify:                         Citigroup Inc.

 

 Issuing institution:                              Steinhoff International Holdings N.V.

 

 Registration Chamber of Commerce                  63570173

 

 Place of residence:                               Amsterdam

 

Distribution in numbers (long position)

 

 Type of      Number of         Number of        Capital     Voting      Manner of disposal      Settle-

 share        shares            voting rights    interest    rights                              ment

 

 Swap         9 150 115.00      9 150 115.00     Potential   Potential   Indirectly (Citigroup   In cash

                                                                         Global Markets

                                                                         Limited)

 

 Call         75 513 318.00     75 513 318.00    Potential   Potential   Indirectly (Citigroup   Physical

 option                                                                  Global Markets          delivery

                                                                         Limited)

 

 Put          100 684 415.00    100 684 415.00   Potential   Potential   Indirectly (Citigroup   Physical

 option                                                                  Global Markets          delivered

                                                                         Limited)

 

 Ordinary     28 942 848.00     28 942 848.00    Real        Real        Indirectly (Citigroup

 share                                                                   Global Markets

                                                                         Limited)

Distribution in percentages (long position)

 

 Type                              Total        Directly     Directly      Indirectly     Indirectly

                                   holding      real         potential     real           potential

 Capital interest                  4.97%        0.00%        0.00%         0.67%          4.30%

 

 Voting rights                     4.97%        0.00%        0.00%         0.67%          4.30%

 

The above notification has been disclosed in the relevant register on the AFM website:

 

https://www.afm.nl/n...s/substantiele-

deelnemingen/Details?id=98387

 

JSE Sponsor: PSG Capital

Stellenbosch, 17 September 2020

 

Date: 17-09-2020 03:15:00

Produced by the JSE SENS Department. The SENS service is an information dissemination service administered by the JSE Limited ('JSE'). 

The JSE does not, whether expressly, tacitly or implicitly, represent, warrant or in any way guarantee the truth, accuracy or completeness of

 the information published on SENS. The JSE, their officers, employees and agents accept no liability for (or in respect of) any direct, 

indirect, incidental or consequential loss or damage of any kind or nature, howsoever arising, from the use of SENS or the use of, or reliance on,

 information disseminated through SENS.

[Everlearning]

Does anyone know what the announcement just released regarding Citigroup means?

[Investment novice]

I think any time 70c to 80c, have plenty. No rush for more. Loading elsewhere for now

[Everlearning]

Think its "biting time" IN, going to top up a little !!!

[Investment novice]

Waiting game. Decide at what level you want to bite....