15225 replies to this topic

[Olymphia]

Excellent post with a good summary. However, I agree with Zanme in that the management has approval to buy shares as this resolution. 9cxd💯, was approved at the AGM. Part of their remuneration should be in the form of SNH shares....they will then have skin in the game and provide some comfort to shareholders that all stakeholders’ interest are aligned.

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[Everlearning]

Think we're all just 'looking away'  !

 

Right now we're in the storm but hopefully it is about to blow over and then its fine saling all the way (hopefully 'to the bank')!

[DeltaHedge]

I don’t like all the silence

[LarryK]

I agree, all bonuses should be paid out as stock awards.

Excellent post with a good summary. However, I agree with Zanme in that the management has approval to buy shares as this resolution was approved at the AGM. Part of their remuneration should be in the form of SNH shares....they will then have skin in the game and provide some comfort to shareholders that all stakeholders’ interest are aligned.

[Burnt as well]

I understand the misery - what I don't understand - Most would acknowledge this was a very risky opportunity for investors. Anyone who had done even the most basic homework would have known that the turnaround would be mostly contingent on the settlement of legal claims, regulatory conformance, operational profitability etc.... This was never going to happen through achieving an operational turnaround alone. Anyone who has been involved in any turnaround, compounded by the complexity (legal claims as well as regulatory scrutiny) and public scrutiny would acknowledge the mammoth task at hand and that was all before COVID.

Contending LDP and his plan have failed before it has actually been fully executed is tantamount to petulantly blowing the final whistle after the first half because you are not in the lead and because you believe your captain is overpaid. The fact is, he was placed there by shareholders and can be removed by the same. I find it somewhat of a stretch to believe LDP, his team or the alleged puppet masters, are in the throws of pulling of some two bit heist through their salaries when the largest shareholders stand to lose more through the dissolution of Steinhoff than they would ever stand to gain through this salary scandal and all of this under the immense scrutiny they are under.

If you truly believe LDP's salary is the issue, remove it and add it to the EBITDA - see if that makes all the difference you hoped it would. Again, I understand your pain and I would be grumpy too however yesterdays problems just don't help today. If you are to stand any chance of recovering your losses and perhaps even managing a profit, you might want to start looking forward, objectively and questioning whether or not you have the stomach for it. If you've misread the situation there is no shame in cutting your losses and buying TESLA or something else more palatable to your taste. The champions of this share are not blind and we do not glorify LDP - we do however see the opportunity (despite the risk) and realize there is a plan, which so far has not proven to be catastrophic. Most of us acknowledge the stakes are high and that it will inevitably all boil down to the settlement of legal claims - if this is not accomplished - LDP and his team will have failed - Until then.... keep the whisky and tissues handy.

Excellent post with a good summary. However, I agree with Zanme in that the management has approval to buy shares as this resolution was approved at the AGM. Part of their remuneration should be in the form of SNH shares....they will then have skin in the game and provide some comfort to shareholders that all stakeholders’ interest are aligned.

[DayTraderDad]

I have been trying to understand why PPH is going up and SNH down. But finally realized the problem its Brexit talks they are breaking down.

 

UK now breaking the international laws

Edited by DayTraderDad, 10 September 2020 - 09:09 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

They kept it going so that they wont be on UIF where they deserve to be. And as a principal that is wrong. These guys are just wrong.

Haha Zanme take a disprim you will feel better. We can sit on this forum everyday and bash LDP do you thing it will change things? The only thiing will happen is your short satisfaction if someoe agrees with your bashing. Pall we have heard you we understand your frustration so tell me how will we fire LPD? Then I will try to help you.

[DayTraderDad]

Geez this share is giving me grey hair haha. Wonder where it will form a bottom now. 

 

I think the drop relates to the RAND MERCHANT BANK COLLATERAL RECEIVER who have taken up the shares from Christo Wiese. 

 

We should see a recovery in the share price once these okes have offloaded all the shares. They had 43 Million. They are selling them in SA only. 

Andi dont worry the reason for the drop is the Brexit talks have reached a bad point today so the talk again of Brexit without agreement. Its a repeat of last year

[Bushmanbob]

Welcome Bushmanbob, thank you for your post. I agree fully in your statement. 

Thanks Andi.

[Zanme]

Andi daddy day trade brad h and all the Louis bulls. Lets forget the fancy footwork. How many shares does Louis have? This goes beyond making excuses for them. Management is a proxy for shareholders why do they have upside and us not. They should have liquidated the company three years ago and applied for UIF.

They kept it going so that they wont be on UIF where they deserve to be. And as a principal that is wrong. These guys are just wrong.

[Zanme]

But some of the members here will still hail the management team as great.
The head office costs us as shareholders in excess of R300 million bulk of that is going to two individuals. Whom i am not sure even own one share in the company and yet we have to glorify them. After three years they can't even provide comfort that the company won't go insolvent. I mean really. The only thing that they good at is sorting themselves out and those that can influence what they earning.

Andi daddy day trade brad h and all the Louis bulls. Lets forget the fancy footwork. How many shares does Louis have? This goes beyond making excuses for them. Management is a proxy for shareholders why do they have upside and us not. They should have liquidated the company three years ago and applied for UIF.

[Zanme]

I posted a daily chart on 27 July, technically SNH needs to take out the March low at 78c before a strong rally.

But some of the members here will still hail the management team as great.
The head office costs us as shareholders in excess of R300 million bulk of that is going to two individuals. Whom i am not sure even own one share in the company and yet we have to glorify them. After three years they can't even provide comfort that the company won't go insolvent. I mean really. The only thing that they good at is sorting themselves out and those that can influence what they earning.

[Bushmanbob]

Welcome back Polly! haha

Thanks BradH - I can tell you're a likable fellow - haha

[BradH]

I’ve never seen Tsunamis in all my years of trading thankfully. As with my first post, I went long this share purely based on my technicals which has served me well over the years in the FX market. 
I did find this forum in July which contained a wealth of current fundamental posts. I’m appreciative for the time the guys took to breakdown the AGM, Settlement proposal etc.

Trading through the GFC in 2008 and beyond, many traders on our chat room would wonder why the NFP data would always have the opposite effect on the EUR/USD than what it fundamentally should. I would look to my chart and often, even before the data is released, the chart would tell me where the market is most likely to go.

 

Also, when something unprecedented happens (which is what happened to SNH in Dec 2017), the market goes through levels like a freight train. I’d rather step aside and wait for price to settle down instead of trying to catch a falling knife, no matter how lucrative it seems.

 

For me, that’s exactly what SNH has done since June 2018, forming a tradable pattern which ultimately reflects nothing more than supply and demand.

I have also noticed that in any instrument, time is as important as price. I did spend many hours (during lockdown) on the internals of SNH since the June 2018 low and its fascinating. September or October could form a low based on time.

 

Heres a JSE listed stock with the very same pattern (which took 10 years to form), formed a low at R2, broke out and is at R22 five years later. SNH is at the bottom of my screenshot for comparison.

 

Whatever your reason to buy and hold maybe, ultimately, the destination is the same.
 

 

Very interesting, thanks for this KP. Which company was it?

Edited by BradH, 10 September 2020 - 05:55 PM.

[KP7]

I’ve never seen Tsunamis in all my years of trading thankfully. As with my first post, I went long this share purely based on my technicals which has served me well over the years in the FX market. 
I did find this forum in July which contained a wealth of current fundamental posts. I’m appreciative for the time the guys took to breakdown the AGM, Settlement proposal etc.

Trading through the GFC in 2008 and beyond, many traders on our chat room would wonder why the NFP data would always have the opposite effect on the EUR/USD than what it fundamentally should. I would look to my chart and often, even before the data is released, the chart would tell me where the market is most likely to go.

 

Also, when something unprecedented happens (which is what happened to SNH in Dec 2017), the market goes through levels like a freight train. I’d rather step aside and wait for price to settle down instead of trying to catch a falling knife, no matter how lucrative it seems.

 

For me, that’s exactly what SNH has done since June 2018, forming a tradable pattern which ultimately reflects nothing more than supply and demand.

I have also noticed that in any instrument, time is as important as price. I did spend many hours (during lockdown) on the internals of SNH since the June 2018 low and its fascinating. September or October could form a low based on time.

 

Heres a JSE listed stock with the very same pattern (which took 10 years to form), formed a low at R2, broke out and is at R22 five years later. SNH is at the bottom of my screenshot for comparison.

 

Whatever your reason to buy and hold maybe, ultimately, the destination is the same.
 

 

 

 

 

 

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[BradH]

I understand the misery - what I don't understand - Most would acknowledge this was a very risky opportunity for investors. Anyone who had done even the most basic homework would have known that the turnaround would be mostly contingent on the settlement of legal claims, regulatory conformance, operational profitability etc....  This was never going to happen through achieving an operational turnaround alone.  Anyone who has been involved in any turnaround, compounded by the complexity (legal claims as well as regulatory scrutiny) and public scrutiny would acknowledge the mammoth task at hand and that was all before COVID.

Contending LDP and his plan have failed before it has actually been fully executed is tantamount to petulantly blowing the final whistle after the first half because you are not in the lead and because you believe your captain is overpaid.  The fact is, he was placed there by shareholders and can be removed by the same. I find it somewhat of a stretch to believe LDP, his team or the alleged puppet masters, are in the throws of pulling of some two bit heist through their salaries when the largest shareholders stand to lose more through the dissolution of Steinhoff than they would ever stand to gain through this salary scandal and all of this under the immense scrutiny they are under.  

If you truly believe LDP's salary is the issue, remove it and add it to the EBITDA - see if that makes all the difference you hoped it would. Again, I understand your pain and I would be grumpy too however yesterdays problems just don't help today.  If you are to stand any chance of recovering your losses and perhaps even managing a profit, you might want to start looking forward, objectively and questioning whether or not you have the stomach for it.  If you've misread the situation there is no shame in cutting your losses and buying TESLA or something else more palatable to your taste.  The champions of this share are not blind and we do not glorify LDP - we do however see the opportunity (despite the risk) and realize there is a plan, which so far has not proven to be catastrophic.  Most of us acknowledge the stakes are high and that it will inevitably all boil down to the settlement of legal claims - if this is not accomplished - LDP and his team will have failed - Until then.... keep the whisky and tissues handy.  

 

Welcome back Polly! haha

[andi222]

I understand the misery - what I don't understand - Most would acknowledge this was a very risky opportunity for investors. Anyone who had done even the most basic homework would have known that the turnaround would be mostly contingent on the settlement of legal claims, regulatory conformance, operational profitability etc....  This was never going to happen through achieving an operational turnaround alone.  Anyone who has been involved in any turnaround, compounded by the complexity (legal claims as well as regulatory scrutiny) and public scrutiny would acknowledge the mammoth task at hand and that was all before COVID.

Contending LDP and his plan have failed before it has actually been fully executed is tantamount to petulantly blowing the final whistle after the first half because you are not in the lead and because you believe your captain is overpaid.  The fact is, he was placed there by shareholders and can be removed by the same. I find it somewhat of a stretch to believe LDP, his team or the alleged puppet masters, are in the throws of pulling of some two bit heist through their salaries when the largest shareholders stand to lose more through the dissolution of Steinhoff than they would ever stand to gain through this salary scandal and all of this under the immense scrutiny they are under.  

If you truly believe LDP's salary is the issue, remove it and add it to the EBITDA - see if that makes all the difference you hoped it would. Again, I understand your pain and I would be grumpy too however yesterdays problems just don't help today.  If you are to stand any chance of recovering your losses and perhaps even managing a profit, you might want to start looking forward, objectively and questioning whether or not you have the stomach for it.  If you've misread the situation there is no shame in cutting your losses and buying TESLA or something else more palatable to your taste.  The champions of this share are not blind and we do not glorify LDP - we do however see the opportunity (despite the risk) and realize there is a plan, which so far has not proven to be catastrophic.  Most of us acknowledge the stakes are high and that it will inevitably all boil down to the settlement of legal claims - if this is not accomplished - LDP and his team will have failed - Until then.... keep the whisky and tissues handy.  

 

Welcome Bushmanbob, thank you for your post. I agree fully in your statement. 

[Bushmanbob]

During the sametime that we have been wasting our time and money on this very incompetent management team Tesla has increased its share price 31 times. While we have seen around a progressive decline. So I don't understand how the champions continue championing a very incompetent management team. I wish I invested in Tesla instead of losing over 10 fold of what I invested. I would have gained 31 times. Lesson learned a company might have great assets but if it has a weak greedy management. If only i listened to Polly.

I understand the misery - what I don't understand - Most would acknowledge this was a very risky opportunity for investors. Anyone who had done even the most basic homework would have known that the turnaround would be mostly contingent on the settlement of legal claims, regulatory conformance, operational profitability etc....  This was never going to happen through achieving an operational turnaround alone.  Anyone who has been involved in any turnaround, compounded by the complexity (legal claims as well as regulatory scrutiny) and public scrutiny would acknowledge the mammoth task at hand and that was all before COVID.

Contending LDP and his plan have failed before it has actually been fully executed is tantamount to petulantly blowing the final whistle after the first half because you are not in the lead and because you believe your captain is overpaid.  The fact is, he was placed there by shareholders and can be removed by the same. I find it somewhat of a stretch to believe LDP, his team or the alleged puppet masters, are in the throws of pulling of some two bit heist through their salaries when the largest shareholders stand to lose more through the dissolution of Steinhoff than they would ever stand to gain through this salary scandal and all of this under the immense scrutiny they are under.  

If you truly believe LDP's salary is the issue, remove it and add it to the EBITDA - see if that makes all the difference you hoped it would. Again, I understand your pain and I would be grumpy too however yesterdays problems just don't help today.  If you are to stand any chance of recovering your losses and perhaps even managing a profit, you might want to start looking forward, objectively and questioning whether or not you have the stomach for it.  If you've misread the situation there is no shame in cutting your losses and buying TESLA or something else more palatable to your taste.  The champions of this share are not blind and we do not glorify LDP - we do however see the opportunity (despite the risk) and realize there is a plan, which so far has not proven to be catastrophic.  Most of us acknowledge the stakes are high and that it will inevitably all boil down to the settlement of legal claims - if this is not accomplished - LDP and his team will have failed - Until then.... keep the whisky and tissues handy.  

[DeltaHedge]

Polly and all hear have one common message. Invest based on your strategy. Diversify and manage your risk. Read through the chats there is no running away that this is high risk speculative.and we called the potential downtrend two weeks ago based on the fact that panic and fear or lack of info will cause share price movement.

Share price fundamentals and all the textbook stuff....i got punished plenty times being overly academic.....

Tesla..imagine the person that bought before the 20 percent drop......

 

Decent closes by steinhoff and ascendis, we need one of them to launch into the heavens and soon, and by that I dont mean going under haha

Edited by DeltaHedge, 10 September 2020 - 05:15 PM.

[Investment novice]

Polly and all hear have one common message. Invest based on your strategy. Diversify and manage your risk. Read through the chats there is no running away that this is high risk speculative.and we called the potential downtrend two weeks ago based on the fact that panic and fear or lack of info will cause share price movement.

Share price fundamentals and all the textbook stuff....i got punished plenty times being overly academic.....

Tesla..imagine the person that bought before the 20 percent drop......