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#6221 BradH

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 10:42 AM

They never committed to such timeline. Yes, they said it will take 4-6 weeks to get an picture of what support they get. After that they will assess and then update the market accordingly. There is no confirmed deadline!!

 

I don't think you guys understand how extremely complex this whole thing is. They are facing over 90 legal claims in different country's. So they need to somehow speak/ convince each party to accept the proposal. 

 

Such extreme complicated process involving numerous parties take time. Either you can wait or you don't and move on.

 

Settle down, Andi. It was just a query as I read in previous posts on here that he would be making an announcement regarding the litigation within a 4- 6 week time frame. I am fully aware of the complexities of the situation, as are many others on here. I am also fully aware there is no confirmed deadline. 


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#6222 Sleepwa123

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 10:33 AM

Do you know how much support they need to push the proposal through?

I read its only 50% and then I read 75%. I think Wiese's claim is more than 50% of the total and since he isn't getting younger, I would assume that he would be keen on it?

 

Thats assuming that his legal woes are not going to hold up the whole thing.


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#6223 andi222

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:49 AM

What's happened to LDP's announcement on litigation? Wasn't monday the end of the 4-6 week wait?

 

They never committed to such timeline. Yes, they said it will take 4-6 weeks to get an picture of what support they get. After that they will assess and then update the market accordingly. There is no confirmed deadline!!

 

I don't think you guys understand how extremely complex this whole thing is. They are facing over 90 legal claims in different country's. So they need to somehow speak/ convince each party to accept the proposal. 

 

Such extreme complicated process involving numerous parties take time. Either you can wait or you don't and move on.


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#6224 Lionelza1

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:45 AM

I keep reading Snh is not for the faint hearted... Vok I'd like to know what share is for the faint hearted? I'd like to put monies in that share
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#6225 Lionelza1

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:34 AM

What's happened to LDP's announcement on litigation? Wasn't monday the end of the 4-6 week wait?


LOL yea don't hold ur breath.

I get that Snh still has great potential... But if management cannot sort out those vitally important issues.... Liquidation is very well on the cards.

One cannot focus on the finish line before the gun has gone off for the start. I. My opinion this is how Mr market is seeing this. Why else would we be sitting at 80c and dropping. I don't have faith in this management.... Especially useless ldp
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#6226 BradH

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:07 AM

What's happened to LDP's announcement on litigation? Wasn't monday the end of the 4-6 week wait?


Edited by BradH, 09 September 2020 - 08:08 AM.

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#6227 Tom

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 10:29 PM

[quote name="DayTraderDad" post="293005" timestamp="1599587148"]

Very good so the useless SNH did much better than SA!!![/quot

You mean the useless Steinhoff Management did way better than South Africa and Steinhoff Shareholders. In a recession Louis went from an attorney to earning R50 million in one year. His counting his blessings. And its not because Steinhoff is a top 1 million counter on the Deutsche exchange.

 

About 55 million rands (on 20 zar to the euro)


Edited by Tom, 08 September 2020 - 10:32 PM.

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#6228 Zanme

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 09:27 PM

[quote name="DayTraderDad" post="293005" timestamp="1599587148"]

Very good so the useless SNH did much better than SA!!![/quot

You mean the useless Steinhoff Management did way better than South Africa and Steinhoff Shareholders. In a recession Louis went from an attorney to earning R50 million in one year. His counting his blessings. And its not because Steinhoff is a top 1 million counter on the Deutsche exchange.
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#6229 DayTraderDad

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 08:46 PM

Sitting having my green beer then it struck me: So shareholders decide they will not settle want more money.

 

Creditors start to think sorry there is no way out of this mess best liquidate.

 

Now we have a fire sale of PPH, PEPCO, Fantastic  and MF.

 

Then PPH shares sold for E1.8 bil, PEPCO will not get more than E4 bil,  MF will struggle to fetch E500 k and Fantastic maybe E500K so total sale: E6.8 Bil 

 

Great news for greedy shareholders:

 

Total debt: 11 - 6.8 =4.2 ok then less the cash E1.7 Bil  assuming no costs with making all 100k employees redundant we have left E 2.5Bil debt to creditors.

 

So they will need to take haircut then the question how much is left for shareholders and other claims.

 

Haha going to sleep very well basically shareholders and claimants have no choice. Guys have faith in the management they not fools,


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#6230 DayTraderDad

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 08:02 PM

Spend some time to understand what is going on with PEPCO. 

 

On the 10th opening 6 shops, 11th 1 shop  then on 17th & 18th 12 shops

 

https://pepco.eu/shops/find-shop/


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#6231 DayTraderDad

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 07:45 PM

GDP collapses 51% in the second quarter

 

https://www.moneyweb...second-quarter/

Very good so the useless SNH did much better than SA!!!


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#6232 Tom

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 03:54 PM

GDP collapses 51% in the second quarter

 

https://www.moneyweb...second-quarter/


Edited by Tom, 08 September 2020 - 03:56 PM.

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#6233 Everlearning

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 12:17 PM

Andi, thanks for once again bringing some well founded logic and sanity to our discussions. 

 

I agree Steinhoff is not for the faint hearted but those who hold out WILL be rewarded. If you analyse the Company from the view of a business rescue practioner, you would no doubt make a strong business case for a massive turnaround potential given the underlying businesses (as Andi has Highlighted) and for all intent, this is exactly what managment have done !

 

Cant wait 'for the time when our discussions will be "remember when", or  "does anyone know of another Steinhoff we can chase"!!! Ha Ha !


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#6234 Investment novice

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Posted 08 September 2020 - 05:58 AM

Even my pension fund was slaughtered, hope the metals was the salvage
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#6235 DayTraderDad

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Posted 07 September 2020 - 09:13 PM

Bradh whether we buy or sell or trade the highs and buy on dips should not influence you. This is a high risk share that always seem to have good variability. I am watching to see where the base would be. Looks like 81 to 83c seems a good stronghold. If holds I may want to add.more . But this is my high risk speculative gamble. The money of i lose won't let me lose sleep. But if I strike it will certainly make me smile and lose sleep woth the party. I have a few high risk shares...ascendis is my biggest play currently. The rest of my investments are long term safe top 40 type shares across different classes etc...diversify diversify and some very high risk single share risks.

Whatever ýour strategy stick to.it.....

Hope your top 40 not as safe as SNH was. Believe me there are lots of Steinhoffs out there.


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#6236 DayTraderDad

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Posted 07 September 2020 - 09:05 PM

Yes, that is what the court ordered the other day. (Will LDP turn on his Masters...)

 

Do you think the insurers will take this lying down?

Hi Boubçe insurance will have no option. There is no way out further people will have to prove Jooster did illigal things. Seems the Hawks cannot figure that out.


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#6237 Investment novice

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Posted 07 September 2020 - 07:21 PM

Bradh whether we buy or sell or trade the highs and buy on dips should not influence you. This is a high risk share that always seem to have good variability. I am watching to see where the base would be. Looks like 81 to 83c seems a good stronghold. If holds I may want to add.more . But this is my high risk speculative gamble. The money of i lose won't let me lose sleep. But if I strike it will certainly make me smile and lose sleep woth the party. I have a few high risk shares...ascendis is my biggest play currently. The rest of my investments are long term safe top 40 type shares across different classes etc...diversify diversify and some very high risk single share risks.

Whatever ýour strategy stick to.it.....
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#6238 andi222

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Posted 07 September 2020 - 06:11 PM

Guys, you should all bear in mind that we are currently sitting at a market value of 180 Million €. This value is basically taking into account that Steinhoff will be liquidated. 

Recent company's who have filed for liquidation have around the same market cap. For example Heartz and Wirecard. 

 

So in my opinion I cannot see the price dropping much further unless the share will be suspended and we loose everything. So you should rather now take the decision to either cut your losses or you stay on board.

 

In my opinion we are at a much beter space at the moment then in 2018 and 2019. Why do I say this:

- All units are profitable, there is no remaining unit in the Steinhoff group which is generating a negative cash flow from its operations. All non-essential or loss making units where disposed off at reasonable prices. 

- The group debt was restructured and will hopefully be extended which gives Steinhoff more time to reduce its debt. Yes, interest rates are crazy, however if legal claims are laid bye and Steinhoff obtaines a clean audit opinion they will definitely be able to obtain much cheaper debt. Global interest rates are on their lowest levels since decades.

- The group has made a formal proposal to settle ALL legal claims against it with one blow. Trust me this was not easy to come up with this proposal and I personally think/hope this was already discussed with the major parties. I mean according to law we only need 50% of the claimants to approve it. So we basically just need Wiese to approve the proposal. Also everyone was stating that Steinhoff has legal claims in excess of 9 Billion € against it. If this proposal is accepted it will only be around 0.8 billion € of which half will be settled via shares. Just as a side note, that is like 4 times the current market cap of Steinhoff. 

- Steinhoff will retain its core operating units in future- All these units have high growth potential in future. (Pepkor, Pepco, MF, Greenlit) I think Conforama will still be disposed off in full. The remaining operating units easily will generate an EBITDA of well above 1 Billion € per year going forward.

 

Now a lot of you guys are probably asking yourself now but why is the share price falling if Steinhoff is at a beter position?

- We have around 87% of the shares in private investor hands. They are driven by emotion and Steinhoff is really not for the faint hearted. 

- Christo Wiese had to dispose of his shares due to margin calls. His first 20% was thrown on the market without a limit. Now in the previous two or three months he had to sell his remaining stake to cover margin calls. Thus share price was depressed further.

- Exit from the SDAX this month. Meaning Index had to re balance and sell Steinhoff shares

 

Now what needs to happen for the share price to go up in my view?

- Legal claims need to be resolved. Proposal needs to be accepted and implemented - In progress

- Debt must be reduced and refinanced at much lower interest rates. - In progress

- Clean audit opinion - In progress

- Continuation of the strong performance of the operational units.

- Big institutional investors need to buy or we need a new anchor investor who will hold 25% and more. - Will only happen once all points above are cleared.

 

So guys we have come all this way, I know it was a tough road this far and the road ahead is still tough. However I do still believe in the Plan management has come up with and I personally will follow it till the sweet or bitter end. 

If you don't believe in the story then rather cut your losses and move to some other investment. 

 

Keep strong guys!!

 


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#6239 Bubble

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Posted 07 September 2020 - 05:57 PM

SNH will claim from director their insurance will payup.I might be wrong but according to company act is only company that can sue director.

Yes, that is what the court ordered the other day. (Will LDP turn on his Masters...)

 

Do you think the insurers will take this lying down?


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#6240 DayTraderDad

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Posted 07 September 2020 - 02:19 PM

The old director/s money is long on the horizon, LDP gave them more than enough time. Besides, the Deloitte legal case will take years to resolve, so too will the Director/s cases. On top, the Hawks is closer to Pigeons and the NPA stands for "No Public Prosecution".

 

But in "Facts world", you are correct, they can go after it.

 

"Reality world" moves a little differently(especially in Mzansi).

SNH will claim from director their insurance will payup.I might be wrong but according to company act is only company that can sue director.


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