15225 replies to this topic

[Investment novice]

The upside is for management... Would be a psuedo partial management buyout at cheap levels...
But will be a boom for all of us that hold the stock. Sorry to those that sell cheap

Buy this share and look away...
See you in 2 years.



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[LarryK]

Wow, imagine the potential upside for the senior leadership teams throughout Snh if they are partially compensated in stock awards.

All bonuses should be awarded in stock and locked in for 1-4 years. To leadership as well as the board.
The share price will then be much more meaningful to these individuals.

[Investment novice]

This may allow buy back and reallocate as settlement. Or buy back and allocate to executives as incentive.
This all bodes well

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[Shi]

 

The agenda of the AGM contains:

"8. Authorisation of the Management Board to acquire Shares"

 

Will that be in addition to their salary, or will part of their salary be used to buy shares for them on market price ?

 

 

This is the authority for SNH to buy its own shares i.e. share buybacks.

[Tom]

The agenda of the AGM contains:

"8. Authorisation of the Management Board to acquire Shares"

 

Will that be in addition to their salary, or will part of their salary be used to buy shares for them on market price ?

Edited by Tom, 17 July 2020 - 12:28 PM.

[Investment novice]

Brilliant.... Time in the market and timing the market.... Buy now and sit it out...

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[Tom]

AGM Record Date is 28 July 2020.

While the AGM is on 28 August 2020.

[Tom]

"Shareholders and other persons with meeting rights are invited to submit any questions relating to any of the agenda items prior to the AGM by e-mail"

 

The agenda of the AGM contains:

"8. Authorisation of the Management Board to acquire Share"

[Tom]

"Shareholders and other persons with meeting rights are invited to submit any questions relating to any of the agenda items prior to the AGM by e-mail"

[Zanme]

We need to put in a request that a good portion of managements remmuneration be deferred in the form of share appreciation rights. So that they will be incentivised to be cost conscious and make the group profitable. If the group is profitable the buyers will rush in. They also need to way up the cost versus benefit of suing. If the directors have nothing what's the point of spending another EURO 300 million on lawyers to get back EURO 1 million or nothing. They have to be sure that pursuing them will benefit shareholders. They need to stop with the legacy and prove themselves to be worth something. There salary needs to be benchmarked with similar companies and all bonuses deferred into share appreciation rights.

[Tom]

Steinhoff can sue for more than 2 billion Euros:

1- Advisory cost to correct the financials, of about 0.3 billion Euros.

2- Legal cost.

3- Extra interest rate they are having to pay the creditors as part of reputational damage, for the current CVA for 3 year, that's about 1.5 billion Euros.

4- Salaries claw backs.

5- Reckless and negligence.

 

The class actions in South Africa have very small chance in succeeding against Steinhoff or any other party.

While the class actions in The Netherlands or Germany against Stinhoff are weak, and can be in courts for many years to come, they might get about 3% after many years and a lot of cost to the plaintiffs' attorneys, and that's why they are trying to settle (the plaintiffs' attorneys will get about 9% or according to what the courts might give them which will be about 5% to 10%).

 

The case of old TT owner against Steinhoff is small.

The cases of CW or old TT owner against Steinhoff have very little chance in any gain, because they were part of the previous management, and they essentially were shareholders, so according to the South African law, they cannot claim compensation.

Edited by Tom, 17 July 2020 - 10:22 AM.

[Tom]

It looks like the price is about to rise.

[DayTraderDad]

We should always remember Wiese was responsible for the worst single day share price slump after the initial crash when he instituted legal action.

Also, Wiese was chairman during the acquisition era so there’s most likely zero chance he had no idea what was going on, or at least had a suspicion.

So now, we have this legal thing, wiese and a clean audit opinion left.

Management has been very cunning in playing down value and the 2020 trade forecast of the company. They mentioned the COVID situation a lot in the 2019 afs. Also clearly stating the company as a going concern is uncertain, this has contributed to a very depressed share price. Hopefully this will deter legal claims or contribute to a reasonable settlement. I thinks settling now is a great opportunity due to worldwide liquidity issues.

If Snh has a good 2020 despite of all this crap - world Trade and travel basically Destroyed - we should have a really valuable company going forward.

@ dtd - how do we vote for Snh to sue old directors and auditors? I’m all in.
 

Hi LarryK,

 

I dont know in full the company law but to my understsnding if more than 51% of shareholders request for a extraordinary meeting magement has to oblige. Therefore then shareholders would be able to vote to force management to sue old directors for the losses.

[Burnt as well]

Before the AGM, we should spread the word widely...... Management incentives should include snh shares.... This will align share values, and help increase price.

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Agenda and date for AGM confirmed, and one of the agenda items is “authorization of the management board to acquire shares”

Guess no lobbying needed and will definitely provide some comfort that management believes there’s value in the company

Edited by Burnt as well, 17 July 2020 - 09:37 AM.

[Investment novice]

Would love to see wiese legal claim crushed asap..
Also don't forget he had margin calls which also caused share price to plummet. Hence the current value of the share and the erosion is not due to the lack of value in the company. Agree with all comments and have a sizeable chunk now... Have dumped all of my eoh and moved to snh and ascendis.

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[LarryK]

We should always remember Wiese was responsible for the worst single day share price slump after the initial crash when he instituted legal action.

Also, Wiese was chairman during the acquisition era so there’s most likely zero chance he had no idea what was going on, or at least had a suspicion.

So now, we have this legal thing, wiese and a clean audit opinion left.

Management has been very cunning in playing down value and the 2020 trade forecast of the company. They mentioned the COVID situation a lot in the 2019 afs. Also clearly stating the company as a going concern is uncertain, this has contributed to a very depressed share price. Hopefully this will deter legal claims or contribute to a reasonable settlement. I thinks settling now is a great opportunity due to worldwide liquidity issues.

If Snh has a good 2020 despite of all this crap - world Trade and travel basically Destroyed - we should have a really valuable company going forward.

@ dtd - how do we vote for Snh to sue old directors and auditors? I’m all in.

Andi I agree with your thoughts but you missing something. Its ok for people to claim from Steinhoff and I hope it will get settled and even if CW claims are fully paid. What we must not forget exesting shareholders have the right to vote to to make SNH management sue the old directors and Deloite.

Therefore quite sure has a settlement arrives so will a SNH claim rise against directors and Deloite so the effect of the claim is actually neutral and the more CW gets the more he will pay.

For me its interesting to see SNH backing the hawks there is much more going on than we know.

Anyway just my thoughts.

[DayTraderDad]

I see three scenarios where we could go with the legal claims:

1) Top problem at the moment are the legal claims of around 11 billion €. Once these have been solved at a reasonable price (which I see at around 5 to 10% of the total claim) paid in Pepkor SA shares, through a Global settlement, there will be a huge/massive spike in the share price as most of the uncertainty will disappear. Investment firms can then make new calculations on the underlying value and analysts will also be able to make recommendations again. (Also counter claims can then be launched against third parties such as auditors, banks, advisors, previous directors etc. . . to recoup some losses)

 

2) No Global settlement is announced and legal claims will be dragged for years and Steinhoff will incur hundreds of Millions of legal costs. Outcome of this will vary per case. 

 

3) Global settlement is announced at a shocking value. Everything above 2.5 billion € would break Steinhoff neck and the company will be liquidated and units sold will be distributed. 

 

Currently I see option 1 as the most viable one. However I think its still a 60% to 40% chance that the global settlement will not be implemented. Only time will tell.

Andi I agree with your thoughts but you missing something. Its ok for people to claim from Steinhoff and I hope it will get settled and even if CW claims are fully paid. What we must not forget exesting shareholders have the right to vote to to make SNH management sue the old directors and Deloite.

 

Therefore quite sure has a settlement arrives so will a SNH claim rise against directors and Deloite so the effect of the claim is actually neutral and the more CW gets the more he will pay.

 

For me its interesting to see SNH backing the hawks there is much more going on than we know.

 

Anyway just my thoughts.

[Investment novice]

Or add a scenario where Christo wiese is defeated... This could be a primary target. There may be dirt hence snh paying pwc to investigate..
I think that this would be a leading issue that is expected to come to the fore now that the first sa case was defended.
This in itself will cause a massive pump.


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[andi222]

Share price is determined on potential future earnings.

Once the uncertainty is dealt with we should see a fair price.
Also, if Snh can show strong results in 2020 it should be very positive going forward.
I assume there’s not much liquidity in the market right now which is also suppressing this share?

 

I see three scenarios where we could go with the legal claims:

1) Top problem at the moment are the legal claims of around 11 billion €. Once these have been solved at a reasonable price (which I see at around 5 to 10% of the total claim) paid in Pepkor SA shares, through a Global settlement, there will be a huge/massive spike in the share price as most of the uncertainty will disappear. Investment firms can then make new calculations on the underlying value and analysts will also be able to make recommendations again. (Also counter claims can then be launched against third parties such as auditors, banks, advisors, previous directors etc. . . to recoup some losses)

 

2) No Global settlement is announced and legal claims will be dragged for years and Steinhoff will incur hundreds of Millions of legal costs. Outcome of this will vary per case. 

 

3) Global settlement is announced at a shocking value. Everything above 2.5 billion € would break Steinhoff neck and the company will be liquidated and units sold will be distributed. 

 

Currently I see option 1 as the most viable one. However I think its still a 60% to 40% chance that the global settlement will not be implemented. Only time will tell.

[LarryK]

Share price is determined on potential future earnings.

Once the uncertainty is dealt with we should see a fair price.
Also, if Snh can show strong results in 2020 it should be very positive going forward.
I assume there’s not much liquidity in the market right now which is also suppressing this share?