15225 replies to this topic

[andi222]

I'm not an expert in this but I know that somewhere last year Wiese has doubled up his shares. And I doubt that Wiese currently has the cash to buy more. Or is even allowed to buy more as this would be insider trading. Through his claim against Steinhoff he can influence the price significantly. 

 

Other big investment firms have strict policies regarding their investments. One of their policies is that a clean audit opinion needs to be issued before they are even allowed to invest any kinds of money.

 

Directors are still not allowed to buy shares as far as I understood. They are in a restructuring process and they all have insider knowledge- for example the sales price of Unitrans/Bensons beds etc. Also I think they know exactly where the litigation is standing. This is all insider news and if they would buy shares now they would all face legal proceedings. 

 

When are big investors able to buy shares?

 

-Clean audit opinion

-Major litigation solved

-Refinancing at low interest rates

-Return to profitability

 

When does management plan to solve all the points listed above?

 

By the end of Dec 2021. 

 

If by then all points are solved and a clean audit opinion is issued you will see big investors jump into this share and the price will reflect this. So you either in for the long term and trust management or you don't. 

[Dell]

hi, I get what you're saying, and agree - things are precarious at the moment.

 

I'm no expert, but if for instance (lets hope) the share price will increase sharply in the foreseeable future - won't directors dealings be

seen as insider trading - as they would have knowledge the market doesn't have?

[Bubble]

Then, why are these Big share holders or Directors not adding more when the price is in the toilet?

See my top 10 post earlier. Only PIC added.

Still nothing found on Dir dealings. When you find nothing, there is nothing. I might miss some other technical reason for them not being allowed to trade.

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[andi222]

The price currently is driven by private shareholders. And emotions are playing a big role at the moment.

 

Biggest shareholders we currently have are:

PIC about 300 Mil shares

Wiese 650 Mil shares

Invesco 130 Mil shares

Blackrock 120 Mil

Schwab 70 Mil

 

Gives you a total of 1,27 Billion shares equates to around 30%

 

Now looking at the AGM meeting there where 25% of Shareholders present

At the EGM there where 23.4%

 

This again just shows you that roughly 75% of all shares are with small investors. These investors don't act rationally. They get influenced by bashers and non-serious news publishers.

And of course they get scared off by the current share price, But again its them who drive this price into basically nothing. *Rolling eyes"

 

Management is following their detailed plan and so far been very successful in it. If you are invested or intend to invest at least invest until the end of 2021. Give the management a chance and you might be rewarded.

[Investment novice]

My apologies
Okay so share will be pressured... When was it not. What is the proportion of share volume traded of total issued...


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[SoleTrader]

Anybody out there with an explanation for the price collapsing now.

 

Collapsing with volume driving it.

The company is bankrupt.  Liabilities exceed assets. Share is worth 1c offered. 

[Bubble]

I don't see 16 mil shares traded today ????

Tradegate - 16.8mil at the moment.

 

https://www.tradegat...in=NL0011375019

Edited by Bubble, 20 November 2019 - 02:30 PM.

[nosh]

10 Mil shares yesterday and 16mil shares mid-day today is not low volume.

I don't see 16 mil shares traded today ????

[Bubble]

Sit tight, price movements arbitrary, low volume, expect some rocket ships if news breaks on sttlement? Xould r5 be a ceiling?

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10 Mil shares yesterday and 16mil shares mid-day today is not low volume.

[Investment novice]

No idea, no news tho. Only thing I can think of is that Steinhoff will be kicked out of the SDax early Dezember so the ETF need to rebalance.

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Sit tight, price movements arbitrary, low volume, expect some rocket ships if news breaks on sttlement? Xould r5 be a ceiling?

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[andi222]

No idea, no news tho. Only thing I can think of is that Steinhoff will be kicked out of the SDax early Dezember so the ETF need to rebalance.

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[Bubble]

Anybody out there with an explanation for the price collapsing now.

 

Collapsing with volume driving it.

[andi222]

The sales that where announced recently have the following impact on Steinhoffs operating profit:

 

FY 2018:

-55 Mil € UK household goods , -12 Mil Steinpol, -95 Mil Kika, - 7 Mil General Merchandise Greenlit. 

 

This sums up to a loss of -169 Million €. 

 

Even just getting a small amount for the sale of these units would be great. Do you still think that this is a fire sale by Steinhoff?

Edited by andi222, 19 November 2019 - 05:43 PM.

[Bubble]

The way I see it, is that no one held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy Shoprite.  The business is what it is because of the vision, capital and hard work already sown.  Investors knew and still know what they are getting into.  In exactly the same way that CW should have known when he accepted Steinhoff shares for Pepkor.  It comes with risk!

 

Shoprite is really no different to the Pick n Pay control structure, or the Dis-Chem.  What about the Walmart Family Trust and Walmart?  Or Elon Musk & Tesla?  I could tell you about Unilever with the Lever Brothers, Toyota and the Toyoda family, Sumsung, Porche, VW, Ferrari...

 

The list is endless.  families that start these businesses took enormous risk and should not give up control without being reimbursed.

 

I think that we must agree that we disagree.  But thank you for the alternative view.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Fair, you are correct, it is own choice and risk.

 

My choice is to say most things CW were involved in had/has a smell to it, and I am not happy to hold a share that he is/was involved in. And the share price is reflecting reality.(All time low today, with a very clear downward trend)

 

But, I will hold in hope. Selling now is pointless.

 

https://www.biznews....nhoff-richemont

[Captainfrom82]

Acting within your rights and not acting in the best interest of the shareholders is where the problem sits. The latter is not that easy to prove or pin down. The main reason for my distrust, and that of the greater business/investment community waking up very late the last few months.

 

The way I see it, is that no one held a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy Shoprite.  The business is what it is because of the vision, capital and hard work already sown.  Investors knew and still know what they are getting into.  In exactly the same way that CW should have known when he accepted Steinhoff shares for Pepkor.  It comes with risk!

 

Shoprite is really no different to the Pick n Pay control structure, or the Dis-Chem.  What about the Walmart Family Trust and Walmart?  Or Elon Musk & Tesla?  I could tell you about Unilever with the Lever Brothers, Toyota and the Toyoda family, Sumsung, Porche, VW, Ferrari...

 

The list is endless.  families that start these businesses took enormous risk and should not give up control without being reimbursed.

 

I think that we must agree that we disagree.  But thank you for the alternative view.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Bubble]

Oct top 10 change

Attached Files

•  SNH Oct.JPG   74.23KB   18 downloads

[Bubble]

There may be an element of Tom & Jerry here, but there is much going on behind the scenes that the average shareholder is not aware of. 

 

Note that the impairment probably suited Steinhoff in their attempts to impair value to reflect no value while they are in negotiations with the litigant shareholders.  It also does not hurt that Steinhoff consolidates PHL financials and that an apparently independent Pepkor Board has taken a decision to impair.

 

I don't know too much about Pepkor disliking CW.  Pepkor is a juristic entity with no feelings.  Who are you referring to here?  The directors?  If so why?  What would they gain by antagonizing one of their largest shareholders?  I follow the Shoprite issue with great interest.  Its my opinion that CW is well within his rights. 

 

Is it possible to post the Top 10 with the changes?

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

 

Acting within your rights and not acting in the best interest of the shareholders is where the problem sits. The latter is not that easy to prove or pin down. The main reason for my distrust, and that of the greater business/investment community waking up very late the last few months.

Edited by Bubble, 19 November 2019 - 02:57 PM.

[Captainfrom82]

Tx for reply.

 

They are playing cat and mouse with each other. PEPKOR dislikes CW as much as Shoprite shareholders. They will do what is needed to make him/them hurt, and they are doing a good job of it at the moment.

 

I cannot find any director deals, selling or buying. To sell at this level is useless, it is a worry that nobody is buying either.

 

Top 10 holdings change;

PIC SECLEN increased their holding in Oct by 14 mil shares to 37mil, that is nothing more than a gamble with R14mil.

 

There may be an element of Tom & Jerry here, but there is much going on behind the scenes that the average shareholder is not aware of. 

 

Note that the impairment probably suited Steinhoff in their attempts to impair value to reflect no value while they are in negotiations with the litigant shareholders.  It also does not hurt that Steinhoff consolidates PHL financials and that an apparently independent Pepkor Board has taken a decision to impair.

 

I don't know too much about Pepkor disliking CW.  Pepkor is a juristic entity with no feelings.  Who are you referring to here?  The directors?  If so why?  What would they gain by antagonizing one of their largest shareholders?  I follow the Shoprite issue with great interest.  Its my opinion that CW is well within his rights. 

 

Is it possible to post the Top 10 with the changes?

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Bubble]

Hey Bubble,

FWIW, Steinhoff advised consistently that these were all planned and executed as part of the planned strategy. 

 

More importantly though, for a cash strapped company, the only way that Steinhoff could get its hands on Pepkor Holdings (Pep SA business) actual physical income is via the dividends declared.  As PHL are so eager to advise anyone who would care to listen, they are an independent board and operate without the shadow of Steinhoff being cast over them.  This is all very noble as the Pepkor directors have (correctly) got a fiduciary duty to PHL and not to the shareholders (Steinhoff).

 

However, it is interesting to note that the impact of the directors decision to have an impairment of goodwill and intangible assets associated with The Building Company business (R1.2b) cost Steinhoff around €14m in dividends (assuming div tax rate of 20% and at an ZAR : € of R16).

 

Hardly going to be THE reason that Steinhoff folds, but still €14m after tax cash is €14m that Steinhoff now does not have.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Tx for reply.

 

They are playing cat and mouse with each other. PEPKOR dislikes CW as much as Shoprite shareholders. They will do what is needed to make him/them hurt, and they are doing a good job of it at the moment.

 

I cannot find any director deals, selling or buying. To sell at this level is useless, it is a worry that nobody is buying either.

 

Top 10 holdings change;

PIC SECLEN increased their holding in Oct by 14 mil shares to 37mil, that is nothing more than a gamble with R14mil.

[Captainfrom82]

Hope you correct. Almost starts looking like a fire sale when you get two announcement in one weekend.

 

Anybody knows or can find data on directors dealings? They should be allowed to as far as I have it.

 

Hey Bubble,

FWIW, Steinhoff advised consistently that these were all planned and executed as part of the planned strategy. 

 

More importantly though, for a cash strapped company, the only way that Steinhoff could get its hands on Pepkor Holdings (Pep SA business) actual physical income is via the dividends declared.  As PHL are so eager to advise anyone who would care to listen, they are an independent board and operate without the shadow of Steinhoff being cast over them.  This is all very noble as the Pepkor directors have (correctly) got a fiduciary duty to PHL and not to the shareholders (Steinhoff).

 

However, it is interesting to note that the impact of the directors decision to have an impairment of goodwill and intangible assets associated with The Building Company business (R1.2b) cost Steinhoff around €14m in dividends (assuming div tax rate of 20% and at an ZAR : € of R16).

 

Hardly going to be THE reason that Steinhoff folds, but still €14m after tax cash is €14m that Steinhoff now does not have.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Edited by Captainfrom82, 19 November 2019 - 10:45 AM.