15225 replies to this topic

[Captainfrom82]

DayTraderDad, on 27 Jun 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

Hi Andi,

Sorry maybe my post was not clear. Yes today is the deadline but it can be extended however approval is needed before the 30th June.

So if it is not obtained today then only tomorrow left!!

 

The 30 June 2019 date has been extended to 9 August 2019.

 

After this Steinhoff expects that the process should be completed in 20 working days.

[DayTraderDad]

andi222, on 27 Jun 2019 - 09:14 AM, said:

Hi DTD,
 
as per the SENS from last week they need approval today:
 
"CVA Creditors and SFHG Creditors are requested to provide their consent by 5:00pm (London
time) on 27 June 2019 in accordance with the instructions detailed in the consent request
circulated to such creditors on 20 June 2019 and available at www.lucid-is.com/steinhoff."
 
Or am I missing something?

Hi Andi,

Sorry maybe my post was not clear. Yes today is the deadline but it can be extended however approval is needed before the 30th June.

So if it is not obtained today then only tomorrow left!!

[Captainfrom82]

andi222, on 27 Jun 2019 - 09:14 AM, said:

Hi DTD,

 

as per the SENS from last week they need approval today:

 

"CVA Creditors and SFHG Creditors are requested to provide their consent by 5:00pm (London
time) on 27 June 2019 in accordance with the instructions detailed in the consent request
circulated to such creditors on 20 June 2019 and available at www.lucid-is.com/steinhoff."

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks for the msg Andi222.  You are spot on.  I was not too worried about this and so did not put this on my calendar as a reminder.  I expected it to get done as there was very strong acceptance when the creditors were engaged and advised of the need for CVA 4.  So in a sense this is fait accompli, although sometimes through human delays, key people being unavailable, or at the creditors organisation the delegation of approval may need more time.   It may be extended to tomorrow or even Tuesday if required.

 

I note that Steinhoff have learned from their previous experience in CVA 3 where they only allowed for 20 working days in June to have this matter finalised.  This time their target is 9 August 2019 which is 30 working days away.  

 

Regards

Captainfrom82 

[DayTraderDad]

Captainfrom82, on 26 Jun 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

In the South African context, MJ was up to his eyeballs in debt to Investec, ABSA and Standard Bank.  When the Steinhoff share price cratered the Steinhoff shares collateral he and his son-in-law provided was worthless.  They both bought time from the banks to liquidate their assets in Mayfair in a relatively controlled fashion.  This has been carried out over the past 18 months.
 
There will be almost nothing left for Steinhoff in this regard.  This will be his formal response to Steinhoff.
 
But MJ was an extremely clever man...one of the smartest and shrewdest businessmen I had ever met.  It is extremely unlikely that he limited his risk to only South Africa.  I am pretty certain that all those ill-gotten gains and proceeds from many other illicit activities  that as yet have not made the news, are salted away in places like Bermuda, Isle of Man, Panama and even Switzerland.
 
Regards
Captainfrom82

MJ must have money he had a army of lawyers in the visit to parliament. Quite sure they not working pro bono!!

[andi222]

https://www.bafin.de...oldings_nv.html

 

Nice another issue solved. 

 

 

Update (26.06.2019): The parties to the appeal proceedings declared the litigation after fulfillment of the financial reporting obligations settled.

Edited by andi222, 27 June 2019 - 11:20 AM.

[andi222]

DayTraderDad, on 27 Jun 2019 - 09:07 AM, said:

They need the approval latest tomorrow because 30th is Sunday!!!

 

Hi DTD,

 

as per the SENS from last week they need approval today:

 

"CVA Creditors and SFHG Creditors are requested to provide their consent by 5:00pm (London
time) on 27 June 2019 in accordance with the instructions detailed in the consent request
circulated to such creditors on 20 June 2019 and available at www.lucid-is.com/steinhoff."

 

Or am I missing something?

[DayTraderDad]

andi222, on 27 Jun 2019 - 07:21 AM, said:

Hope they get approval today. 5 pm is the deadline today. Will be waiting for that SENS. Hope it will be the LAST extension.

They need the approval latest tomorrow because 30th is Sunday!!!

Edited by DayTraderDad, 27 June 2019 - 11:08 AM.

[andi222]

Hope they get approval today. 5 pm is the deadline today. Will be waiting for that SENS. Hope it will be the LAST extension.

[DayTraderDad]

andi222, on 26 Jun 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

So that's profit/loss for the year. For operating profit/loss you should exclude finance cost and tax. Which would give u an operating profit of around 200 to 400 Million.

Thanks Andi so I guess we quite close!!

[DayTraderDad]

Captainfrom82, on 26 Jun 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

Hmmm DTD, I hope that you are correct but would be quite surprised if those numbers materialised. 
 
 
But my own calcs are always extremely conservative.  I could be wrong.  It will also be affected by the fact that MF contributed negatively to FY17 and with it being consolidated this will not be the case.  We also need to clarify if Confo is included in 1H19 as a consolidated subsidiary or not.
 
 
What revenue did you use?
 
 
Note that for FY17 the actual Operating Margin was 1.7% (with even the sustainable Operating Margin being only 1.9%).  Translating that to your numbers would require a revenue of around E13b.  That is pretty hefty going for a half year reporting period.
 
Regards
Captainfrom82

I Captain I used a revenue of E6664 mil and a revenue/profit margin of 3.92% as per AFS 2018 which had for continued operation
Revenue 12827 and operating profit of 504.

[Captainfrom82]

Investment novice, on 26 Jun 2019 - 2:50 PM, said:

I can already see the headlines....blood bath at steinhoff .....

Should steinhoff not issue a trading statement or early earning if their results are 20 percent higher or lower than previous years...or is that only for full year....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

 

Simply put, there are two criteria that determine whether a trading update is required.

a) That there is price sensitive information known with a reasonable degree of certainty;

That the confidentiality of this information cannot be protected

 

The comparison must be for a similar period. 

 

In a nutshell, as soon as they know with a degree of certainty, of 20%  or greater they are obliged to advisethe market as the information more than likely will be leaked.  They may elect (but are not obliged) to also advise if the variance is less than 20%.

 

1H18 earnings were a loss of E599.  A 20% variance would require an announcement if the loss exceeds E719, or if it improves beyond a loss of E479.

 

The caveat though is the words "reasonable degree of certainty".  Management hide behind this because it is subjective.  I have known companies to issue an update the previous day to announcing their confirmed earnings.

 

I am still very hopeful that Steinhoff will issue something over the next week.  I expect there to be a greater than 20% improvement.  However, remember they are working with absolute numbers.  So they do not care if something is not considered continuing operations.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[ESS]

Steinhoff wants Markus Jooste to pay back R870m - Financial Mail

https://www.fin24.co...-mail-20190626?

shared via @Fin24

And while I'm typing seeing this on news24.... So claims all over....with responsibility/liability split.

[ESS]

Captainfrom82, on 26 Jun 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

In the South African context, MJ was up to his eyeballs in debt to Investec, ABSA and Standard Bank. When the Steinhoff share price cratered the Steinhoff shares collateral he and his son-in-law provided was worthless. They both bought time from the banks to liquidate their assets in Mayfair in a relatively controlled fashion. This has been carried out over the past 18 months.

There will be almost nothing left for Steinhoff in this regard. This will be his formal response to Steinhoff.

But MJ was an extremely clever man...one of the smartest and shrewdest businessmen I had ever met. It is extremely unlikely that he limited his risk to only South Africa. I am pretty certain that all those ill-gotten gains and proceeds from many other illicit activities that as yet have not made the news, are salted away in places like Bermuda, Isle of Man, Panama and even Switzerland.

Regards
Captainfrom82

For those who does not follow the legal issue: the court will likely put % blame on each respondent (ie person being sued). So unlikely to others to pay pick up payments for those who ran out of money....the claimant (ie the person sueing) will lose. Hence during process recovery of money based on liability will be looked at continually by claimants to ensure max value. Atleast how clever lawyers work....no use winning ang getting nothing.

[Investment novice]

I can already see the headlines....blood bath at steinhoff .....

Should steinhoff not issue a trading statement or early earning if their results are 20 percent higher or lower than previous years...or is that only for full year....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[andi222]

Captainfrom82, on 26 Jun 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

This profit/loss for the period and not Operating profit/Loss?  Otherwise why did you include the interest in your operating profit/loss calcs?

 

So that's profit/loss for the year. For operating profit/loss you should exclude finance cost and tax. Which would give u an operating profit of around 200 to 400 Million. 

[Captainfrom82]

andi222, on 26 Jun 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

Hi DTD,

 

I think the profit for the year might come in as follows:

 

EBITDA from continued operations:                   425

Less Depreciation and Amortisation                  -100

Less Interest                                                      -325

Less Tax                                                            -100

Loss from continued operations:                      100 Million

 

EBITDA from discontinued operations:              130

Less Depreciation and Amortisation                  -25

Less Interest                                                      -15

Less Tax                                                            -10

Profit from discontinued operations:                   80 Million

 

So overall I think they will generate a loss of between 0 and 100 Million Euro. 

 

Again just my personal forecast and no recommendation or advice to buy or sell shares. 

 

          

 

This profit/loss for the period and not Operating profit/Loss?  Otherwise why did you include the interest in your operating profit/loss calcs?

[Captainfrom82]

andi222, on 26 Jun 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

Well MJ market wealth was around 320 Mil euro before Steinhoff collapse. So he can't say he doesn't have the money to pay. First claim launched, others to follow soon. Will be interesting who will be sued next? Auditors, Advisors?

 

In the South African context, MJ was up to his eyeballs in debt to Investec, ABSA and Standard Bank.  When the Steinhoff share price cratered the Steinhoff shares collateral he and his son-in-law provided was worthless.  They both bought time from the banks to liquidate their assets in Mayfair in a relatively controlled fashion.  This has been carried out over the past 18 months.

 

There will be almost nothing left for Steinhoff in this regard.  This will be his formal response to Steinhoff.

 

But MJ was an extremely clever man...one of the smartest and shrewdest businessmen I had ever met.  It is extremely unlikely that he limited his risk to only South Africa.  I am pretty certain that all those ill-gotten gains and proceeds from many other illicit activities  that as yet have not made the news, are salted away in places like Bermuda, Isle of Man, Panama and even Switzerland.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

[andi222]

DayTraderDad, on 26 Jun 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

Has anyone got a view on the H1-2019 Operating profit?

my estimate is E261 mil profit or E0.06 / share (excluding once off items)!!

 

Hi DTD,

 

I think the profit for the year might come in as follows:

 

EBITDA from continued operations:                   425

Less Depreciation and Amortisation                  -100

Less Interest                                                      -325

Less Tax                                                            -100

Loss from continued operations:                      100 Million

 

EBITDA from discontinued operations:              130

Less Depreciation and Amortisation                  -25

Less Interest                                                      -15

Less Tax                                                            -10

Profit from discontinued operations:                   80 Million

 

So overall I think they will generate a loss of between 0 and 100 Million Euro. 

 

Again just my personal forecast and no recommendation or advice to buy or sell shares. 

 

          

Edited by andi222, 26 June 2019 - 02:00 PM.

[Captainfrom82]

DayTraderDad, on 26 Jun 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

Has anyone got a view on the H1-2019 Operating profit?

my estimate is E261 mil profit or E0.06 / share (excluding once off items)!!

 

Hmmm DTD, I hope that you are correct but would be quite surprised if those numbers materialised. 

 

 

But my own calcs are always extremely conservative.  I could be wrong.  It will also be affected by the fact that MF contributed negatively to FY17 and with it being consolidated this will not be the case.  We also need to clarify if Confo is included in 1H19 as a consolidated subsidiary or not.

 

 

What revenue did you use?

 

 

Note that for FY17 the actual Operating Margin was 1.7% (with even the sustainable Operating Margin being only 1.9%).  Translating that to your numbers would require a revenue of around E13b.  That is pretty hefty going for a half year reporting period.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

[andi222]

DayTraderDad, on 26 Jun 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

Has anyone got a view on the H1-2019 Operating profit?

my estimate is E261 mil profit or E0.06 / share (excluding once off items)!!

 

Well MJ market wealth was around 320 Mil euro before Steinhoff collapse. So he can't say he doesn't have the money to pay. First claim launched, others to follow soon. Will be interesting who will be sued next? Auditors, Advisors?