15225 replies to this topic

[Polly]

 

Steinhoff is not run by MJ anymore so it is not a ponzi scheme anymore. You right the share price is finding a base with the 2017 financials and will get better.

 

dont know Milo...rest of week on JSE will be real test of its share price..Lets see if that +-1.70 holds...IF it hold till friday then maybe just maybe base building.. but njust too many uncertainties yet to confirm as base building...

[Polly]

Yeah those AFS just give us a base, so much has changed since then. We need AFS for 2018 to see where progress has been made.

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remember it takes a big big stand for any auditor to submit a disclaimer of opinion , especially on a listed company..

 

Will make a nice homwork study....How many listed companies have survived a disclaimer of opinion on the JSE!!!!

Geez this will take weeks if not months to do to to to ascertain that info... but im pretty sure its nearly 99% , if not 100

[Milo]

Yeah those AFS just give us a base, so much has changed since then. We need AFS for 2018 to see where progress has been made.

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Steinhoff is not run by MJ anymore so it is not a ponzi scheme anymore. You right the share price is finding a base with the 2017 financials and will get better.

[andi222]

Andi222,

I am not an accountant so want some information:

To my understanding the Financials for 30 Sep 2017 is a picture of what is happening up to that day.

So all the action taken after that date does not play a role and the financials are actually outdated today.

Reason I am saying that is as you mentioned below all the concerns by auditors have/are been addressed
yet so much noise about the 30 Sep 2017.

Sounds like people are stuck on the past!!!

Yeah those AFS just give us a base, so much has changed since then. We need AFS for 2018 to see where progress has been made.

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[Polly]

Hi Polly,

I think AFS for 2018 will be horrible as well with no audit opinion as the going concern won't be resolved due to the legal issues and there might be a negative equity balance.

AFS for 2019 will be the first set I think that will have an unmodified opinion if they can clear the litogations by then. I'm expecting horrible AfS for 2019 as well due to the high professional fees etc.

2020 will be the AFS that will make or break Steinhoff in my opinion. Here most issues should have been solved. Professional fees should have normalised by then and the restructioring effect should show their results.

I'm not a fan of giving a share price, € just know if Steinhoff can produce a positve EBIT in 2020 that is close to 1 billion as forecasted the shre proce will rise automatically.





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fair comment...appreciated!!

[andi222]

Hi Polly,

I think AFS for 2018 will be horrible as well with no audit opinion as the going concern won't be resolved due to the legal issues and there might be a negative equity balance.

AFS for 2019 will be the first set I think that will have an unmodified opinion if they can clear the litogations by then. I'm expecting horrible AfS for 2019 as well due to the high professional fees etc.

2020 will be the AFS that will make or break Steinhoff in my opinion. Here most issues should have been solved. Professional fees should have normalised by then and the restructioring effect should show their results.

I'm not a fan of giving a share price, € just know if Steinhoff can produce a positve EBIT in 2020 that is close to 1 billion as forecasted the shre proce will rise automatically.





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[Polly]

Andi222,

I am not an accountant so want some information:

To my understanding the Financials for 30 Sep 2017 is a picture of what is happening up to that day.

So all the action taken after that date does not play a role and the financials are actually outdated today.

Reason I am saying that is as you mentioned below all the concerns by auditors have/are been addressed
yet so much noise about the 30 Sep 2017.

Sounds like people are stuck on the past!!!

 

 

Dickhead thats his opinion and not a fact so dont go about your own merry pumping idiotic way..

 

 

For all i care Andi could be right but another scenario things got progressively worse  from that afs to next.....

as in trading losses and  more impairments

 

This answer not for A but for Dickhead

Edited by Polly, 08 May 2019 - 12:46 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Andi222,

I am not an accountant so want some information:

To my understanding the Financials for 30 Sep 2017 is a picture of what is happening up to that day.

So all the action taken after that date does not play a role and the financials are actually outdated today.

Reason I am saying that is as you mentioned below all the concerns by auditors have/are been addressed
yet so much noise about the 30 Sep 2017.

Sounds like people are stuck on the past!!!

[Polly]

 

Material Uncertainty with regard to:

• Going Concern;

This will hopefully be solved once CVA is finalised. They plan to finalise before 2018 AFS get released. I would say 95% certain that this will be solved as they have approval.

• Uncertainty with regard to litigation;

This one will be though to solve in the short term. However counter claims have been initiated. Shareholders will not get any money in my opinion, if they do it will probably be paid by auditors as they didnt pick up the fraud over 10 years. Then CW claim will be dropped in my view as he has topped up more shares and he said he will drop it if he can see progress. So at the end I think Steinhoff might come out clean here. 

• Taxation effects wrt restatements;

This is a good thing as the company will be able to reclaim taxes for a period of 7 years on taxes paid on false revenues. Apparently the rumor is that the Company could claim up to 2 billion euros from tax authorities. This will also take some time but it is solvable with a positive outcome for Steinhoff.

• Control Conclusion wrt certain entities;

Add more controls and clean up related entities. This has been done for 2018 so I think this point will be dropped.

• Share in Investment of Conforma;

This was the dispute with LSW which has been solved recently. So no point going forward.

• Timing of recording adjustments wrt restatements;

Here auditors just need more time to get enough evidence. Can be solved for 2018 AFS

• Timing of results of certain property transactions;

Here auditors just need more time to get enough evidence. Can be solved for 2018 AFS

• Foreign Currency translation reserve;

Complex in nature, however if auditors have performed enough procedures this point will fall away.

• Not having access to Kika Leiner information;

KIKA/Leiner is history as both parties have agreed to sell after 2017

• And then some emphasis of matter.

Here they are just referring to the remediation plan that management is currently implementing. 

 

I'm trying to stick to facts, if someone has more information please feel free to add your comments.

 

 

 

Hi A...if all this works out in PS favour and auditors give clean bill of health , what time frame you looking at and where do you see the share price then?

[DayTraderDad]

Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:08 AM

Polly, on 02 May 2019 - 07:41 AM, said:

checked now ...1.92 the line is sand

My reply:

Hahah bye bye line see you at R1.83


So what happened!!!

Edited by DayTraderDad, 08 May 2019 - 12:09 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

Material Uncertainty with regard to:

• Going Concern;

This will hopefully be solved once CVA is finalised. They plan to finalise before 2018 AFS get released. I would say 95% certain that this will be solved as they have approval.

• Uncertainty with regard to litigation;

This one will be though to solve in the short term. However counter claims have been initiated. Shareholders will not get any money in my opinion, if they do it will probably be paid by auditors as they didnt pick up the fraud over 10 years. Then CW claim will be dropped in my view as he has topped up more shares and he said he will drop it if he can see progress. So at the end I think Steinhoff might come out clean here. 

• Taxation effects wrt restatements;

This is a good thing as the company will be able to reclaim taxes for a period of 7 years on taxes paid on false revenues. Apparently the rumor is that the Company could claim up to 2 billion euros from tax authorities. This will also take some time but it is solvable with a positive outcome for Steinhoff.

• Control Conclusion wrt certain entities;

Add more controls and clean up related entities. This has been done for 2018 so I think this point will be dropped.

• Share in Investment of Conforma;

This was the dispute with LSW which has been solved recently. So no point going forward.

• Timing of recording adjustments wrt restatements;

Here auditors just need more time to get enough evidence. Can be solved for 2018 AFS

• Timing of results of certain property transactions;

Here auditors just need more time to get enough evidence. Can be solved for 2018 AFS

• Foreign Currency translation reserve;

Complex in nature, however if auditors have performed enough procedures this point will fall away.

• Not having access to Kika Leiner information;

KIKA/Leiner is history as both parties have agreed to sell after 2017

• And then some emphasis of matter.

Here they are just referring to the remediation plan that management is currently implementing. 
 
I'm trying to stick to facts, if someone has more information please feel free to add your comments.

Thanks andi good information!!

[andi222]

 If only going concern then audit opinion would have been subject too blah blah , afs fairly presents blah blah

 

 

however there is more:

 

Material Uncertainty with regard to:

• Going Concern;
• Uncertainty with regard to litigation;
• Taxation effects wrt restatements;
• Control Conclusion wrt certain entities;
• Share in Investment of Conforma;
• Timing of recording adjustments wrt restatements;
• Timing of results of certain property transactions;
• Foreign Currency translation reserve;
• Not having access to Kika Leiner information;
• And then some emphasis of matter.

 

So cva is not the only problem for auditors...

 

Material Uncertainty with regard to:

• Going Concern;

This will hopefully be solved once CVA is finalised. They plan to finalise before 2018 AFS get released. I would say 95% certain that this will be solved as they have approval.

• Uncertainty with regard to litigation;

This one will be though to solve in the short term. However counter claims have been initiated. Shareholders will not get any money in my opinion, if they do it will probably be paid by auditors as they didnt pick up the fraud over 10 years. Then CW claim will be dropped in my view as he has topped up more shares and he said he will drop it if he can see progress. So at the end I think Steinhoff might come out clean here. 

• Taxation effects wrt restatements;

This is a good thing as the company will be able to reclaim taxes for a period of 7 years on taxes paid on false revenues. Apparently the rumor is that the Company could claim up to 2 billion euros from tax authorities. This will also take some time but it is solvable with a positive outcome for Steinhoff.

• Control Conclusion wrt certain entities;

Add more controls and clean up related entities. This has been done for 2018 so I think this point will be dropped.

• Share in Investment of Conforma;

This was the dispute with LSW which has been solved recently. So no point going forward.

• Timing of recording adjustments wrt restatements;

Here auditors just need more time to get enough evidence. Can be solved for 2018 AFS

• Timing of results of certain property transactions;

Here auditors just need more time to get enough evidence. Can be solved for 2018 AFS

• Foreign Currency translation reserve;

Complex in nature, however if auditors have performed enough procedures this point will fall away.

• Not having access to Kika Leiner information;

KIKA/Leiner is history as both parties have agreed to sell after 2017

• And then some emphasis of matter.

Here they are just referring to the remediation plan that management is currently implementing. 

 

I'm trying to stick to facts, if someone has more information please feel free to add your comments.

[DayTraderDad]

Hey TROLL I don't have memory issues its you that have short man complex!!! Like I told you before GET HELP ASAP!!!!

Cannot wait for you to go so we can live normal lives without fools insulting people!!! Please don't forget to take all your Minnie Me's!!!

[DayTraderDad]

   
 
This okes got a memory like a fish L..and then the excuses..
 
told me end april he will show me who wins....came and gone too....now wants to make me wait 3 years for same win...
Hell boy  im gona be settling in the Bahamas next few months time...so cant take up his 3 year  game offer...

Hey TROLL I don't have memory issues its you that have short man complex!!! Like I told you before GET HELP ASAP!!!!

[Polly]

Dude I will pull out ur thread where u said this share will never see R1. 70 again made about 3mnths ago... but it's not worth my time!

You have made way too many incorrect predictions and u continue to blow your trumpet... Go blow your captains trumpet....haha yea I'm 

   

 

This okes got a memory like a fish L..and then the excuses..

 

told me end april he will show me who wins....came and gone too....now wants to make me wait 3 years for same win...

Hell boy  im gona be settling in the Bahamas next few months time...so cant take up his 3 year  game offer...

[Polly]

Polly as I have mentioned before you cannot give an unmodified opinion if the going assumption is not given. 

 

I however think as soon as the CVA is finalized the loans will all go to non-current. Thus auditors will be able to express an opinion.

 

 

 If only going concern then audit opinion would have been subject too blah blah , afs fairly presents blah blah

 

 

however there is more:

 

Material Uncertainty with regard to:

• Going Concern;
• Uncertainty with regard to litigation;
• Taxation effects wrt restatements;
• Control Conclusion wrt certain entities;
• Share in Investment of Conforma;
• Timing of recording adjustments wrt restatements;
• Timing of results of certain property transactions;
• Foreign Currency translation reserve;
• Not having access to Kika Leiner information;
• And then some emphasis of matter.

 

So cva is not the only problem for auditors...

[andi222]

Highlights ?  with no auditors opinion??

 

not worth the paper its printed on..

 

technically insolvent 

 

battle to get credit....

 

 

clean up???  what clean up?? 

 

go run your numbers and see what the true hole even without the uncertainties

 

uncertainties remain...all what i said to Andi still there....

 

Polly as I have mentioned before you cannot give an unmodified opinion if the going assumption is not given. 

 

I however think as soon as the CVA is finalized the loans will all go to non-current. Thus auditors will be able to express an opinion.

 

Regarding the AFS, obviously the AFS are terrible. But I mean what exactly where you expecting? However these AFS are the cleanest you will find anywhere in the market in my opinion.

 

For me the 760 million sustainable EBIT is positively surprising. Now with all the restructuring in place we might even see a 1 billion EBIT for 2020. Go look at the forecast. Will be tough to achieve but not impossible.

 

Regarding the loans, the 10% is not applicable to the total loan balance. I think you keep forgetting this. 

 

We have a base now let's look forward.

[DayTraderDad]

The markets reaction may see moves up and down short term. As a holder of the shares I am still optimistic that the 2017 results finalization is a massive step in the recovery process. Steinhoff has to provide full disclosure and management has to demonstrate it is doing all the right things. They positioning for a bailout... Whether through restructuring and refinancing debt or through further asset disposals. The individual flagship entities are moving forward growing. MF still has to come to the party and we will only see this in December when 2019 results are out. Sure the share price can be all over the place. And this means an opportunity to trade.. Not invest... You will see more investors coming to the market... Not your usual sort but you will see those with high risk appetite...as we now have financials.... Interesting days... And well done to Sonn and Co.

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I agree very good post!!!

[DayTraderDad]

It was clean until your terrible twin polluted it last night...thats why i decided to post here...
 
 
War it is....trying to look all important...but merely a Stellies gangster/mafia misleading.....
 
can see right through you...complete impostor!! threats dont work here moron!!
 
I tell you...those who private messaged you ( if they did cos u such a con).....are going to be the same ones calling for your blood....

And you a old accountant that thinks he has some knowledge!!!! Get a life you fool!!!

[DayTraderDad]

It was clean until your terrible twin polluted it last night...thats why i decided to post here...
 
 
War it is....trying to look all important...but merely a Stellies gangster/mafia misleading.....
 
can see right through you...complete impostor!! threats don't work here moron!!
 
I tell you...those who private messaged you ( if they did cos u such a con).....are going to be the same ones calling for your blood....

The reason why I jumped in your clean thread last night was because it was not clean you were insulting me and Captain. This is exactly what you do you
cannot simply keep your mouth shut you always need to insult people on other threads so they cannot see it.
Polly you are a very nasty piece of work!!!!