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Steinhoff


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#9741 Investment novice

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

could this all be a storm in a tea cup- hypothetically- reuters exposed the global trade deal and accounting irregularity which was defended. Viceroy exposed management self enrichment with the KL deal; and the remaining concerns are relates to revenue and debt representation. the revenue may be inflated but perhaps 10% inflated? who knows- there is real underlying value and assets generating sales (19 dec presentation)....

 

I cant wait for the full disclosure.......I will bank my house savings at R5.80 a share...worth the risk


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#9742 Investment novice

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:14 PM

some interesting reading looking at the Tesco case study, and some online critical articles

 

1. hopefully Steinhoff too big too fail and is able to sort liquidity and provide market update this week.

2. shareholder law suits can be settled out of court may take 3 years to do so.

3. German fraud case open since 2015???? and still may take several months- this sounds rather spurious - surely there should have been enough evidence

4 market has already hammered Steinhoff based on share price- interesting read from small caps; and from seeking alpha blood in the baths- share price volatility- an interesting share - high risk- high volume to place at least 10% of funds in-

 

5. Africa bank which is not a suitable comparison- due to steinhoffs high book value and assets- suspended and re - named with old share holders receiving 1:1 share.

 

6. With Steinhoff's current pricing- may be a great acquisition target by online sellers wanting front office retail space or by cash flush companies.

 

 


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#9743 Investment novice

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

interesting average SA share volumes reduced significantly today but Europe maintained with some big volume purchases?

there must be some news that we should expect soon


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#9744 Investment novice

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 02:25 PM

interesting average SA share volumes reduced significantly today but Europe maintained with some big volume purchases?

there must be some news that we should expect soon


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#9745 Investment novice

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:47 AM

on 6Th December  :)  :D  :P

great call- wonder if the market will heed to aspen efforts at stemming the decline


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#9746 Bullhunter

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:47 PM

One has to ask why Steinhoff chose to make Frankfurt its primary listing. Old man Bruno Steinhoff is German and probably wanted to expropriate his wealth back to Germany (he was born in 1937-JUST prior to WW2).

 

Bruno Steinhoff rang the bell at the Frankfurt Stock Exchange in December 2015, celebrating as the furniture manufacturer he founded in 1964 returned to Germany after 17 years on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange. Unfortunately for him, things had changed somewhat since he left Germany in 1997. 

 

He mentored Jooste, the gruff son of a postal worker who had qualified as an accountant. Wiese too was from a humble background in the small Northern Cape town of Upington.

 

NO FURTHER COMMENT REQUIRED.


Edited by Bullhunter, 10 January 2018 - 11:51 PM.

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#9747 Spree

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:24 PM

on 6Th December  :)  :D  :P


You called it, Polly. I should have heeded your call and sold, or reduced my holdings. Damn!
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#9748 Polly

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 02:53 PM

We already had EOH, now Steinhoff...who is next??  My call Aspen!

 

All manipulated balance sheets whose profits just grow and grow unbelievably...issuing script

 

Skeletons has to show up sometime.

on 6Th December  :)  :D  :P


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#9749 Investment novice

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 01:16 PM

Steinhoff accountants too clever for themselves- functioning as a bank!!!

 

it would be interesting to see if PWC can infact add validity to the OBS and demonstrate benefit and legality.

Hopefully not that the OBS are all toxic assets which erodes value- probably not.

 

read the following which I though was rather interesting relating to OBS and banks- credit risk management

 

The off-balance sheet activities are in many instances part o the common business of banking , and not necessarily intended to avoid the regulations as argued by my friend Mo Chaudhury of McGill University, Canada : For example, lines of credit granted by the bank to its customers, the Letters of Credit in the international trade transactions and guarantees given therein by the banks to the exporters, any bank guarantees and contingency liabilities not booked in the balance sheets, the forward market transactions in currencies , and all other financial derivative transactions made often to hedge the risks in the balance sheets like interest rate risks .Many of the forward market transactions like buying and selling currencies are often to cater to the requirements of the customers for hedging their financial and business risks. They are all off-balance sheet activities meant to reduce the risks of the bank customers and of banks themselves in their banking books . If bank's rate sensitive assets are greater than rate sensitive liabilities, if interest rates decline in future , they are exposed to loss , and this can be hedged through an interest rate swap of paying the floating rate and receiving a fixed rate . Taking an interest rate swap is an example for an off-balance sheet activity. Having said all that positive activities, sometimes some banks indulge in speculative risk taking off-balance sheet activities also. However, regulators are trying to prevent that by even limiting the proprietary trade in financial markets by the banks directly and indirectly.....

 

I would guess SNH is guilty of management enrichment and the rest is noise.......

 

hope my noise is more interesting than the redundant media reports


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#9750 Investment novice

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:55 PM

Viceroy Research, Aurelius Value: Paid Shills Create Negative Fake News on MiMedix Group, MDXG

Do we know who Viceroy research are ? have they painted a plausible story or exaggerated information that they were able to hack, necessitating a comprehensive defense of value and transparency of a poorly integrated multinational?

 

I keep on listening to the bankers presentation on the 19th and cant understand how these leadership brands with revenue and cash flows would need to overly inflate its revenue- perhaps entrepreneurial accounting guided by tax experts. perhaps management enrichment and innapprorpriate representation....but this is not a debt ridden bankrupt company??? 

 

your thoughts

 


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#9751 Investment novice

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 12:24 PM

cant blame the media therefore use them to your benefit. media volume increased with ECB selling off bonds and sale of jet, share depressed- its a buy for a quick buck. Steinhoff update on liquidity is due and this should give a 30% gain. Have not seen further sell off of PSG or STAR shares to plug the liquidity gap so it looks like austerity measures and salvaging key assets is the focus. smaller entities may be downsized to raise capital????

 

speculation, speculation; speculation...just hope these sods can at least issue a timeline for when they presume 2017 financials  may be ready let alone the remaining years....

 

as you say very scant  communication with lack of detail


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#9752 Blackobar

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 02:53 PM

some nice austerity measures filtering through; board clean up; and so on.
its a waiting game now hey.
the media coverage has been poor as most articles regurgitate what they think they have read from the SENS or what they can sensationalise.
really hope that all is not as bad and some share recovery occurs for the pension funds and for SA's reputation.


You can't blame the media coverage. Steinhoff shareholders are getting little to no information on what's going on, they are just sitting and waiting hoping for "better news" from Steinhoff honchos . The thugs running Steinhoff are the worst, i really feel bad for their shareholders
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#9753 Investment novice

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:14 AM

some nice austerity measures filtering through; board clean up; and so on.

its a waiting game now hey.

the media coverage has been poor as most articles regurgitate what they think they have read from the SENS or what they can sensationalise.

really hope that all is not as  bad and some share recovery occurs for the pension funds and for SA's reputation.

 

 


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:47 PM

"All these ratios tell me is that I would not have bought Steinhoff because it is not a great business. Maybe I am just not clever enough to look at this and see fraud, but I also look at these ratios and see an aggressive Group making large acquisitions as it quickly tries to internationalise itself.

In other words, once again, the conclusion is not conclusive"...its a rather interesting article http://smallcaps.co....-grandstanders/

and reiterates what we saying- business in high growth phase that is a problem child requiring maturation and integration.

 

some really strong assets with good management- Cost of debt --hmmm

 

bullhunter- not sure if we read the same article or you just quoted the heading that does not really relate to the article


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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:18 PM

Steinhoff is rubbish:

 

http://smallcaps.co....-grandstanders/

Their underlying businesses are not.


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#9756 Bullhunter

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:42 AM

short term liquidity issues seem to be resolved. Businesses are pumping. Buy on the dips and lets hope we can ride this from under R10 back to at least R30.

ifrs issues but also some directors misappropriation and misrepresentation. IFRS issues alone would not result in CEO resignation. Hole in balance sheet will be accommodated.

 

looking calmer no doubt

 

bravery required now, balls of steel

Steinhoff is rubbish:

 

http://smallcaps.co....-grandstanders/


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#9757 Investment novice

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:20 AM

short term liquidity issues seem to be resolved. Businesses are pumping. Buy on the dips and lets hope we can ride this from under R10 back to at least R30.

ifrs issues but also some directors misappropriation and misrepresentation. IFRS issues alone would not result in CEO resignation. Hole in balance sheet will be accommodated.

 

looking calmer no doubt

 

bravery required now, balls of steel


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#9758 SoleTrader

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:00 PM

HI I have been following this saga with limited factual evidence trying to make heads or tales. what's evident is that media sensationalism and lack of understanding of what is being relayed in the SENS. Most journalists perhaps for their own benefit are paraphrasing each other and extracting or assuming what is being relayed.

I too am making assumptions .

 

1. There is certainly Fraud, but most probably related to a limited number of executives excluding Wiese. Since there are legal ramifications the financial statements have to be restated according to dutch accounting law 362.6 . This does not imply the financials are grossly inadequate. we could be looking at a few 100 million euro worth of fraud and siphoning. I suspect related to the three companies within the European stables where there were repurchases. It is unlikely to be massive fraud as the CFO would also have been implicated. The CEO has the DOA for decision making but there still is a 2:1 rule implicating the board which would have limited gross fraud.

 

2. due to legal issues the due process on this is intensive and includes the german and dutch fsb as well as criminal court. hence information may only be shared at the appropriate time. unfortunately we as shareholders want more information. the company has tried to calm us by talking about the strength of the balance sheet.

 

3. Short term liquidity has been managed but credit insurance is an issue due to non disclosure. Credit insurance rather than credit itself. seems the media has jumped solely on to the credit insurance and assumed it includes credit. sure there maybe credit issues but this will be overcome by paying premiums.

 

4. The key lenders have agreed to support Steinhoff based on the introduction of the presentation where Steinhoff exec thanks them.

 

5. Shareholder value is most certainly eroded but some recovery may be achieved with the improved governance and implementation of processes. interestingly this in itself strengthens the company for future growth and pushes through integration.

 

6. C Wiese is fighting tooth and nail to salvage his billions- he has the most to lose and most to recover.

 

7. short term this share is high risk but also high reward- with the restatement of results we should expect the share at R15-R30, with a bottom of R3.80 or suspension. Upside warrants a risk and I would buy anywhere R5- R11

 

whats your thoughts

Point 6 says it all.  I have taken a "too big to fail" view.  All operations seems to be doing well.  My contacts supplying HiFi Corp told me they are being paid on time, A large debt payment was due to ABSA, which was made on time.  The SENS yesterday alluded to IFRS issues as opposed to a  massive siphoned hole in the balance sheet,  If there was theft, surely arrests would be made? 


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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

I want to climb back in, but I am not sure if this is the bottom yet?


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#9760 Investment novice

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 11:22 AM

HI I have been following this saga with limited factual evidence trying to make heads or tales. what's evident is that media sensationalism and lack of understanding of what is being relayed in the SENS. Most journalists perhaps for their own benefit are paraphrasing each other and extracting or assuming what is being relayed.

I too am making assumptions .

 

1. There is certainly Fraud, but most probably related to a limited number of executives excluding Wiese. Since there are legal ramifications the financial statements have to be restated according to dutch accounting law 362.6 . This does not imply the financials are grossly inadequate. we could be looking at a few 100 million euro worth of fraud and siphoning. I suspect related to the three companies within the European stables where there were repurchases. It is unlikely to be massive fraud as the CFO would also have been implicated. The CEO has the DOA for decision making but there still is a 2:1 rule implicating the board which would have limited gross fraud.

 

2. due to legal issues the due process on this is intensive and includes the german and dutch fsb as well as criminal court. hence information may only be shared at the appropriate time. unfortunately we as shareholders want more information. the company has tried to calm us by talking about the strength of the balance sheet.

 

3. Short term liquidity has been managed but credit insurance is an issue due to non disclosure. Credit insurance rather than credit itself. seems the media has jumped solely on to the credit insurance and assumed it includes credit. sure there maybe credit issues but this will be overcome by paying premiums.

 

4. The key lenders have agreed to support Steinhoff based on the introduction of the presentation where Steinhoff exec thanks them.

 

5. Shareholder value is most certainly eroded but some recovery may be achieved with the improved governance and implementation of processes. interestingly this in itself strengthens the company for future growth and pushes through integration.

 

6. C Wiese is fighting tooth and nail to salvage his billions- he has the most to lose and most to recover.

 

7. short term this share is high risk but also high reward- with the restatement of results we should expect the share at R15-R30, with a bottom of R3.80 or suspension. Upside warrants a risk and I would buy anywhere R5- R11

 

whats your thoughts


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