15225 replies to this topic

[Captainfrom82]

From a valuation standpoint, probably most important paragraph:

“If the Group, having considered the findings in the PwC Report, including any consequential impacts, believes that the restatements to the total equity position of the Group as reflected in the unaudited half year results published on 29 June 2018 are materially out of line, the Group will inform the market as soon as it becomes aware of such material difference.”

 

Hi Burnt as well,

 

You are correct - I picked up on this statement (which incidentally was also included in the 1H18 unaudited financial statements). 

 

I inquired in August 2018, and was told that while this cannot be ruled out, that the PwC work was very comprehensive and that the result was management erred towards to side of caution to clean up the Balance Sheet.  In effect, further restatements are quite unlikely.  The statement is included in the report for legal cover go indicate that there are some things that is not fully understood.

 

IMHO the likelihood of further material impairments/restatements are very small.   The one possibility the cost of debt due to additional risk brought on by lawsuits needs to be managed.  This in turn would realise further impairments as the WACC increases thereby increasing the discount rate of the future cash flows.

 

We have discussed the contingent liability on this platform.  There is nothing further to add.

 

I have said this before.  Steinhoff and the heavyweight restructuring management team they have acquired have many arrows to their bow. 

 

This has nothing to do with shareholders having "studied at Harvard", "management being useless", speculators on this platform who have no skin in the game covering both basis on possible share price movement,  or indeed any other misinformation.

 

What I will concede is that, if you cannot afford to lose your money, stay away from Steinhoff. 

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Captainfrom82]

exactly.,,,,,,,thats why share price is languishing around R2.00 instead of R20.00

 

I'm inclined to say "rubbish".  This is what happens when you trade and as a result focus on share price instead of the underlying business value.  Share price does not tell you too much about the company's true worth.  Neither Polly, nor his Mini-me Lionelza1, or indeed anyone can accurately call a company's share price.  If they could, the would be dollar trillionaires and not lounging on ShareChat spreading misinformation as fact. 

 

Polly, what exactly do you mean "thats why share price is languishing"? 

 

In a previous post you also mentioned that the share could jump up or could drop.  Talk about covering your basis?  You need to choose one, buddy and tell us what you are staying.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

[LarryK]

Hi Polly,

I wonder how in practice snh will be able to recover bonuses and other losses from the implicated parties.
If you look at total loss due to share collapse I doubt the gang will just accept responsibility and pay up.
If any money is recovered from them how will this be applied?

I do however not agree regarding your comment on the share auction. The average the last 6 months were 7 million per day. But to be fair though we regularly had large purchases just before a dump

Lastly, your opinion regarding it being a Ponzi scheme.
There’s probably truth in this but if the new leadership can deflect liabilities legally (via pwc report findings for eg) and they restructure the company properly, it could be very successful.
One on the interesting bits I picked up in the pwc info is that circulating and recycling the debt to make the books balance resulted in higher management fees for these companies. If this is cleaned up we could also see better bottom line?

I look forward to your comments

[Milo]

Maybe this is all just a storm in a tea cup like Cyril Ramaphosa would say. The share price will go up now that an investigation was done. The market will see this as good step to recovery I think.

[Polly]

Nice 46,181,245 share buy to close the day out.

Was that you Lionel?

Whatever we say to each other on here doesn’t matter. Egos on here don’t matter.
Share price does.
 

exactly.,,,,,,,thats why share price is languishing around R2.00 instead of R20.00

Edited by Polly, 17 March 2019 - 10:24 AM.

[Polly]

Anyone your thoughts on how realistic this is and how it could be executed?

“If required and immediately following expiry of any necessary process, proceedings will be instituted against the individuals and orders will be sought that, among other things, in the event that any allegations against the Steinhoff Group by third party claimants are sustained, the individuals reimburse or pay a contribution to the Steinhoff Group in an amount equal to the amount which the Steinhoff Group is ordered to pay the third party claimants in any such proceedings or in any further proceedings. In addition, the Group intends to seek recovery of the bonuses paid to certain individuals.”

 

 

again main claimant being Wiese imo  ( other shareholders claiming for loss of value of investment you should not worry about as thier chances are slim)...Who benefited from this  exchange of Wieses jewel pepkor for Steinhoff  rubbish shares... If MJ benefited , snh will go after him...IF Steinhofff benefited , can steinhoff sue steinhoff??  Pretty simple to me...

[Polly]

Posted 15 March 2019 - 11:00 PM

DayTraderDad, on 15 Mar 2019 - 9:43 PM, said:

Lionel you are a die hard. Never give up even when you lost!!!

haha lost? i am not competing against any1. i am not shorting snh, i am gambling for a pump and a share price of atleast R4

 

The information that is comming out is just not doing it for me. certainly not for the market as well.

 

and if the market were thinking like u guys surely this share would be sitting atleast R10.....but its NOT...its sitting on a piss willy R2 FROM R60 or so

 

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

 

 

Already talk of won and lost.....Unbelievable , shocking and a recipe for disaster!!!

[Polly]

 

It will be interesting to know who bought the R 84 Mil shares 30 min before the news broke???

A astute believer in Steinhoff or somebody who knew to much.

 

I cannot see the FSCA NOT investigating this one..

 

1 15 Mar 2019 17:00 46 181 245 184 84 973 491

 

 

nothing extra ordinary... volumes usually big in closing auction for the day

[Polly]

The management is still playing games with you SNH shareholders/investors , this highly edited version is full of information that was already known. If I was a shareholder here i'd demand an immediate access to the full report. You guys have been through the most, you deserve better.
This deceit and high disregard of your investments is unacceptable.

If you're a trader though, stick to your charts and ride the waves.

 

cherry picking is the name of the game...and nothing of sorts the market didnt know about..

 

 

Anyway bet the gurus and pumpers had a good sleep last night seeing the posts already posted...Cool...Good luck..

 

 

Again the sens just confirmed to me  what a huge  PONZI scheme this was.... trying to artificially increase bottom line to keep the wheels turning.... Fictitious debtors , property valuations propped up , goodwill for God knows what , inter group manipulated transactions , etc etc... and this has been going on for years , doing it bigger and bigger...sucking in more investors...

 

Well This week will be the big SUCK , followed the the bigger SPEW...Thats how Mr Market operates....    

[Chris101]

It will be interesting to know who bought the R 84 Mil shares 30 min before the news broke???

A astute believer in Steinhoff or somebody who knew to much.

 

I cannot see the FSCA NOT investigating this one..

 

1 15 Mar 2019 17:00 46 181 245 184 84 973 491

 

[DayTraderDad]

Anyone your thoughts on how realistic this is and how it could be executed?

“If required and immediately following expiry of any necessary process, proceedings will be instituted against the individuals and orders will be sought that, among other things, in the event that any allegations against the Steinhoff Group by third party claimants are sustained, the individuals reimburse or pay a contribution to the Steinhoff Group in an amount equal to the amount which the Steinhoff Group is ordered to pay the third party claimants in any such proceedings or in any further proceedings. In addition, the Group intends to seek recovery of the bonuses paid to certain individuals.”

From what I read about similar cases the responsibility lies with the company to sue/claim material losses  from the related directors that are involved in fraud or irregularities. Shareholders are the owners of the company and can only sue the company if the company does not take action in which case shareholders would sue on behalf of the company. The law  makes directors liable for their own actions and do believe they have insurance for liabilities.

From the PwC report it is clear that SNH was a victim and as such has the right to sue for material looses it suffered. The share price would recover if SNH receive the moneys back and thus the shareholders would recover their losses.

A similar case AHOLD the  shareholders got some compensation from Deloitte it happened in 2002 and settlement in process in 2019.

https://www.veb.net/...loitte/algemeen

I am not sure a shareholder loss due to the share price falling will take precedence to a company claim for actual losses and not sure two claims can be done to the same individuals for the same issue.

I also cannot see any court allowing shareholder to bankrupt a company to get a portion of their losses for dumping the share or even less bankrupt a company to compensate share holders that sold their shares leaving new shareholders also lose their money to carry the risk because for a person to sell a share there needs to be another person willing to buy. Then a new class action by the new shareholders so where will it end.

All I know is lawyers are going to make a killing at shareholders expense. For me the best option for shareholders would have been to fix the company get any moneys back from the directors and get the dividends to pay for the losses. I am very sure if the class action suites were cancelled the share price would go over the R10 immediately.

Anyway think this is going to be very interesting!!!

[Lionelza1]

i think it would be best that snh management keeps this report as close as possible for as long as possible. manipulate and use information from report for the best interest of company and shareholders. Having said that they will be handing report over to the Hawks so in time it will leak, for sale to the higghest bidder and a 2l coke aint gonna buy this report

 

Im pretty sure pages meant for the report were shredded the minute it was printed  at PWC's offices. i think management would be STUPID not to do that

 

Imagine the report being leaked now.....this share would be all over the place, misinterpretations from diff ppl....i mean we seen how ppl on here reads things haha

 

For me, all focus is going to be on Heather Sonn in parliment......and if she speaks with authority and confidence......game on!

[Blackobar]

The management is still playing games with you SNH shareholders/investors , this highly edited version is full of information that was already known. If I was a shareholder here i'd demand an immediate access to the full report. You guys have been through the most, you deserve better.
This deceit and high disregard of your investments is unacceptable.

If you're a trader though, stick to your charts and ride the waves.

[Lionelza1]

 

DayTraderDad, on 15 Mar 2019 - 11:21 PM, said:

Well then you should be happy tonight if you long.  Yes the share is not going any ware at this moment because there is a lot of noise but AFS will not reveal anything different and until the restructure is in place the share will  be subdue. The science is to be able to see past the noise.

 

i do not have any shares in snh, i sold out last time for a lekka profit!. i am happy to see it go up after sens but not exticed with the close

last parlimentary process we saw decent gains and i am hoping for the same on tuesday, is why i am buying in on monday to tata ma chance again

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[LarryK]

Anyone your thoughts on how realistic this is and how it could be executed?

“If required and immediately following expiry of any necessary process, proceedings will be instituted against the individuals and orders will be sought that, among other things, in the event that any allegations against the Steinhoff Group by third party claimants are sustained, the individuals reimburse or pay a contribution to the Steinhoff Group in an amount equal to the amount which the Steinhoff Group is ordered to pay the third party claimants in any such proceedings or in any further proceedings. In addition, the Group intends to seek recovery of the bonuses paid to certain individuals.”

[LarryK]

Nice 46,181,245 share buy to close the day out.

Was that you Lionel?

Whatever we say to each other on here doesn’t matter. Egos on here don’t matter.
Share price does.
Snh should be able deflect responsibility with the correct findings so that will be great for the company moving forward, restructuring, all the employees and probably share price.
Heather Sonn and co will be legends if they pull it off and they deserve credit for their efforts.

[DayTraderDad]

haha lost? i am not competing against any1. i am not shorting snh, i am gambling for a pump and a share price of atleast R4

 

The information that is comming out is just not doing it for me. certainly not for the market as well.

 

and if the market were thinking like u guys surely this share would be sitting atleast R10.....but its NOT...its sitting on a piss willy R2 FROM R60 or so

 

the truth will be told in AFS and not speculations etc etc etc.....the way u guys throw out figures is absolutely scarey.

 

good news is atleast they delivered on pwc.......most of which we still do not know but its progress

Well then you should be happy tonight if you long.  Yes the share is not going any ware at this moment because there is a lot of noise but AFS will not reveal anything different and until the restructure is in place the share will  be subdue. The science is to be able to see past the noise.

[Lionelza1]

Lionel you are a die hard. Never give up even when you lost!!!

haha lost? i am not competing against any1. i am not shorting snh, i am gambling for a pump and a share price of atleast R4

 

The information that is comming out is just not doing it for me. certainly not for the market as well.

 

and if the market were thinking like u guys surely this share would be sitting atleast R10.....but its NOT...its sitting on a piss willy R2 FROM R60 or so

 

the truth will be told in AFS and not speculations etc etc etc.....the way u guys throw out figures is absolutely scarey.

 

good news is atleast they delivered on pwc.......most of which we still do not know but its progress

Edited by Lionelza1, 15 March 2019 - 11:02 PM.

[Burnt as well]

From a valuation standpoint, probably most important paragraph:

“If the Group, having considered the findings in the PwC Report, including any consequential impacts, believes that the restatements to the total equity position of the Group as reflected in the unaudited half year results published on 29 June 2018 are materially out of line, the Group will inform the market as soon as it becomes aware of such material difference.”

[DayTraderDad]

should the full 15 000 page report be leaked, that would be worth quoting from hey you are still in the dark unless u are sitting in the boardroom meetings!

Lionel you are a die hard. Never give up even when you lost!!!