15225 replies to this topic

[leo]

This share is going to get hammered today.

[Milo]

 

Now that there were a good trading update.  The vultures will start circling again with their lawsuits and stuff.  Hope they don’t succeed and the class action suit cost them lots of money because I am sure their commissions will be so high that there won’t be money left anyway for the shareholders that lost money .The investors made the wrong investment choice in that time in their life anyway. (Bad luck suckers) Hope you all get nothing from the law suits because you all bad losers now turning into vultures and thief’s yourself.  Go Toy toy in the street and brake things down ha ha with your brokers who lost your money for you and now trying to shift the blame.

 

 

[Lionelza1]

Haha same old story hey leo.... Dump and then the slow poison..... I'll buy more of this useless/awesome thing couple weeks time

[DayTraderDad]

Du Preez said the company anticipates providing an "overview of the report" prior to the publication of its audited 2017 and 2018 financial results, once it has reviewed the full document in detail.

 

"This overview will ensure that the legally privileged nature of the report is not undermined and its position in the various pending legal and other proceedings, including any recovery proceedings to be instituted by Steinhoff, is not jeopardised."

[Captainfrom82]

https://www.business...inhoffs-plan-b/

 

The agreement covers an estimated €9.4bn of debt and is offering a hefty 10% PIK (payment-in-kind, which includes interest and fees) return on that debt, which will be rolled up twice a year for the three years to 2021.

The 10%, which includes an "early-bird fee" for creditors who signed up early to the LUA, means the group will be adding almost €1bn a year to its debt burden, leaving it with a potential €13bn when the agreement expires.

You are also double-counting in that the € 599m loss for 1H, already includes the finance costs.  In effect, therefore the sustainable earnings also includes this interest charge.  You cannot correctly now lump the entire interest again off the sustainable earnings and arrive at this “200m in the red”.

 

Refer to page 14 of the half year 2018 results. Sustainable (ie normalised) EBITDA (Earnings BEFORE ...) HYFYF18 340m and HYFYF17 405... Double the half year earnings and account for INTEREST, tax, Depr and Amort.

 

Thanks Leo,

 

It is great that we are checking each other.

 

We need to take a really good hard look at the debt.  There is a school of thought that Mattress Firm's debt will swing from a liability to a asset when they move from consolidation to equity accounting for MF. This will wipe out a significant amount of debt at the stroke of a pen.  The same will likely occur at Conforama.

 

Regarding the interest and EBITDA, I see that in my own analysis, that I have used a revised (lower) calculation of the annual EBIDTA.  This came to the significantly lower EBITDA (€640m)  than the market market consensus (€800m to €1.2b). 

 

The actual picture that is finally revealed may be somewhere between our two views.

 

Thanks again.

 

Regards

Captainfrom82

[DayTraderDad]

Interesting Pepkor Europe has overtaken the turnover of Conforama:

                              Q1-19          Q1-18 %      Change    Expected Q1-20

Pepkor Europe        993                867                  15             1261 (my estimate of growth 27%)

Conforama              927                958                  (3)               900 (If no restructure or sale takes place)

[DayTraderDad]

Interesting to think that this trading update is not well received by the market.
What will be regarded as acceptable?

Haha its difficult to predict the reaction of speculators. The share ran very hard without news now people are shorting it because in IG sentiment in shorts went from 4% before the recent rally to now sitting at 7%. (I think people taking cover for long positions)

Watch this spot going to get exiting because if the big buyers mop up the shares will be interesting to see where the shorter's going to get shares to close out!!! There has been some big trades going through Tradegate and JSE.

[LarryK]

Interesting to think that this trading update is not well received by the market.
What will be regarded as acceptable?

[DayTraderDad]

Come now Dad, you've seen this movie before....it's all about sentiment as there are no fundamentals.

 

Agree, the revenue is positive, as oppose to negative. But by just looking at revenue, is like trying to bake a cake with flour only.. adding more flour is not going to give you cake, regardless of how you slice, dice or bake it.

 

haha, maybe a poor analogy...

Haha very good analogy!!

Leo SNH is not a short term story but having a sector of the business growing at 37% (the eggs and yeast) is a good sign just read how many retails are failing. Once Conforama is sorted/sold and Greenlit Brands listed/sold SNH will be profitable. I believe that PEPKOR and PEPCO Europe are profitable and MF turned around will also add to profitability.

[leo]

I agree people are missing on what is the real future of SNH.

PEPCO growing fast has big room to move into because EU has 27 countries and 500 mil people it will make Pepkor SA look like a small ant.

 

Come now Dad, you've seen this movie before....it's all about sentiment as there are no fundamentals.

 

Agree, the revenue is positive, as oppose to negative. But by just looking at revenue, is like trying to bake a cake with flour only.. adding more flour is not going to give you cake, regardless of how you slice, dice or bake it.

 

haha, maybe a poor analogy...

[Tom]

An extract of a new post:

"

“affected clients” refers to clients that are eligible to participate in the class action, being those clients that bought Steinhoff shares or held Steinhoff shares

between 7 August 2015 and 7 December 2017 on either the Johannesburg Stock Exchange or the Frankfurt Stock Exchange.

"

.

[Tom]

An extract from newly released VEB and Steinhoff class action stake holders post:

"

How long does it take before a final judgment of the Amsterdam District Court should be expected?

The case is brought before the Amsterdam District Court. The requirements as set out in Article 3:305A of the Dutch Civil Code for the introduction of a class action

have been fulfilled. On average, parties obtain a judgment in first instance within 2 years after serving the writ of summons.

However, VEB’s longest running legal proceedings was against internet provider World Online and took almost 10 years. That case went through three courts: the

Amsterdam District Court, the Amsterdam Court of Appeal and the Dutch Supreme Court. Within a year after the final judgment a settlement was reached for VEB

members and partners only. They received a compensation over 100% of damages incurred because of the negotiated interest compensation due to the lead time

of the proceedings.

"

Edited by Tom, 28 February 2019 - 01:30 PM.

[DayTraderDad]

 

An extract from newly released VEB and Steinhoff class action stake holders post:

"

6. What is the relevant period in the VEB/European Investors class action?

In this class action VEB/European Investors act on behalf of shareholders who bought or held shares between 7 August 2015 and 6 December 2017 COB.

Depending on the outcome of any independent investigation, the relevant period may extend.

"

 

Tom what's the point you trying to put across?

[Tom]

An extract from newly released VEB and Steinhoff class action stake holders post:

"

6. What is the relevant period in the VEB/European Investors class action?

In this class action VEB/European Investors act on behalf of shareholders who bought or held shares between 7 August 2015 and 6 December 2017 COB.

Depending on the outcome of any independent investigation, the relevant period may extend.

"

[Tom]

An extract from newly released VEB and Steinhoff class action stake holders post:

"

4. Steinhoff is incorporated in The Netherlands. What are the legal implications according to Dutch law regarding the

restatement of the consolidated financial statement 2016?

The announcements of Steinhoff regarding the restatement of several consolidated financial statements leads to the following analysis. Under Dutch law, where a

company either:

• releases false or misleading information about the company impacting its share price; and/or

• publishes annual statements failing to provide such insight enabling an informed assessment of the company’s assets and liabilities and its results; and/or

• fails to inform the public as soon as possible of inside information directly concerning the company (as an issuer of shares),

it acts unlawfully and is liable to compensate the losses incurred by investors. False or misleading information in a prospectus or similar investment document

causes a reversal of the burden of proof regarding the false or misleading nature of this information and the attributability to the company.

VEB/European Investors base the class action lawsuit on Dutch tort law. The combined circumstances forcing Steinhoff to inform the public that it must restate its

2016 consolidated financial statements which may no longer be relied upon. The fact that the 2016 and 2015 financial statements of the former listed holding

company of the group Steinhoff International Holdings Proprietary Limited also can no longer be relied upon, clearly establishes that Steinhoff acted unlawfully.

"

 

[DayTraderDad]

Really good trading Update. Revenue once again increased even though all the current issues. PEPCO had a growth of 37%. That is amazing. Just a matter of time until this share will continue its upward trend.

I agree people are missing on what is the real future of SNH.

PEPCO growing fast has big room to move into because EU has 27 countries and 500 mil people it will make Pepkor SA look like a small ant.

[Tom]

From VEB and Steinhoff class action stake holders:

"

3. What is meant by the “accounting irregularities”?

It is still unclear what Steinhoff meant by using the periphrasis “accounting irregularities” in its press release of 5 December 2017. In that press release Steinhoff

advises shareholders “that new information has come to light today which relates to accounting irregularities requiring further investigation. The Supervisory Board,

in consultation with the statutory auditors of the Company, has approached PWC to perform an independent investigation.” Two days later Steinhoff states that its

audited results will be delayed pending further investigation. The investigation extends to the validity and recoverability of certain Steinhoff Europe balance sheet

assets which amount to circa 6 billion euros. These assets are under scrutiny in the 2017 audit work and are also relevant to the 2016 consolidated financial

statements. The 6 billion euros must be qualified as substantial because Steinhoff had to announce on 13 December 2017 that, based on Article 2:362 (6) of the

Dutch Civil Code, the 2016 consolidated financial statements failed to provide a true and fair view of Steinhoff’s financial position. Steinhoff confirmed that its

financial statements for the split 2016 and 2015 financial year need to be restated.

All information on the Steinhoff website pertaining to the 2015 and 2016 years (such as financial statements and quarterly figures) is accompanied by the warning

that it can no longer be relied on.

In the international media there are articles published pointing to possible tax evasion in Switzerland and unclear transactions between different companies within

the Steinhoff group in Germany. This might also relate to the periphrasis “accounting irregularities” used by Steinhoff in its press releases.

"

 

[DayTraderDad]

Wrong.

 

If you have followed this share price over the last year, after every trade update it falls. Should end the day in the low 190ss

Not so sure shorting is increasing so I am looking for a lovely short squeeze very soon.

[leo]

Really good trading Update. Revenue once again increased even though all the current issues. PEPCO had a growth of 37%. That is amazing. Just a matter of time until this share will continue its upward trend.

 

Wrong.

 

If you have followed this share price over the last year, after every trade update it falls. Should end the day in the low 190ss