15225 replies to this topic

[Lionelza1]

hahaha, i always maintained i dont care if snh fails or not...and i still do not care, i am playing the gamble that snh will recorrect and so too will the markets....what happens afterwards i do not care!

 

so i spent the entire day last year watching the parli process for insight etc, and i bought in again for LUA which du preez (USELESS LIAR) confidently told parli AND the entire market world that come 20Oct LUA would be signed sealed and delivered, i bought in last week in sept for this 20oct promise.......so where are we today (they have been 2 extensions w.r.t LUA since then)? at that time the share price was around R2.50

 

When i first bought into snh and joined this sharechat, i was influenced by what i read on here....and i pumped accordingly......so i hear exactly what Polly says when he uses the words.....do not mislead

 

To cut the long BS short, I have my monies in snh, this management will continue to be useless in my opinion until such time they start delivering on THEIR promises. And the FACT that they keep delaying tells me 1 thing....they are CLUELESS and USELESS

 

So yes, i wait and see.

 

PS Cappy, i am using my money, not Pollys money.....i am with NO1!

 

PPS, i think it is absolutely missleading to be calling share price figures such as R9, R20 etc etc....and also Pollys ZERO, having said that, i would be shooting myself in the foot should ignore that there is a strong probability that this share could drop towards that zero!

[DayTraderDad]

Testimony in the UK House of Commons by audit firms: “We are not doing what the market thinks. We are not looking for fraud and we are not giving a statement that the accounts are correct. We are saying they are reasonable...”

 

Exact my point its useless putting too much trust in Financials.

 

https://www.parliame...d2-17830685dd5c

 

[Polly]

you in now...sit tight and pray!! 

 

for me not worth the risk!!

[Polly]

Everyone has a right to their own delusions.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

exactly...enough said!!  

 

For every pumper you will have a dumper...thats what makes markets!!

[Captainfrom82]

yep doom and gloom means for me a big fat zero going foward maximum 3 years!!

 

I aint convinced otherwise captain....

 

Everyone has a right to their own delusions.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Polly]

yep doom and gloom means for me a big fat zero going foward maximum 3 years!!

 

I aint convinced otherwise captain....

[Polly]

Indeed, "lets wait and see" should be the position.  It is unfortunately not, with many here shouting doom and gloom.

 

A "Contingent Liability " means that something (a future event) may occur or may not occur - it is uncertain.  Even if it does occur, there is no telling what the outcome may be in terms of the corrective action -  it may be a slap on the wrist as a fine.

 

You would never guess that on this platform though, would you?  As far as many people are concerned, Steinhoff MUST be punished, and WILL fail as a result.  This is despite the sum of the underlying businesses actually showing a pretty healthy profit.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Hi again

 

 

yes i for one say they would be punished very very severely....Just an opinion for what wrong that was done... massive fraud...

 

underlying businesses showing a healthy profit...i would also put a question mark against that looking at bottom line..

 

ie sales and ebita may be healthy but end of day can they meet their commitments.... I still doubt that

[Captainfrom82]

Lets wait and see...thats why its termed contingent!!

 

Indeed, "lets wait and see" should be the position.  It is unfortunately not, with many here shouting doom and gloom.

 

A "Contingent Liability " means that something (a future event) may occur or may not occur - it is uncertain.  Even if it does occur, there is no telling what the outcome may be in terms of the corrective action -  it may be a slap on the wrist as a fine.

 

You would never guess that on this platform though, would you?  As far as many people are concerned, Steinhoff MUST be punished, and WILL fail as a result.  This is despite the sum of the underlying businesses actually showing a pretty healthy profit.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Polly]

Hi Polly,

 

The contingent liabilities are indeed a concern.  However, many companies have ongoing contingent liabilities and in fact this could be seen as a cost of doing business.  Currently he following companies are facing lawsuits:

• Glencore has them regarding their mining operations in DRC,
• BP has them regarding the Gulf of Mexico issue (which has not yet been completely settled),
• BHP has this for the tailing dam failings in South America,
• Vale has this for their own dam failure over the past week,
• Huwei has it with the CEO and the supposed Iran sanctions issue,
• Samsung has it regarding their influencing the previous President.
• VW, Audi and BMW are all caught up in the emissions scandal.

The list is endless.  As long as someone feels suitably aggrieved, they will sue. Do you see the contingent liabilities wiping any of those companies off the map?  Of course some companies do fold (Lehman, Enron, WorldCom, etc).

 

But many do not - certainly not for the relatively small scale of the Steinhoff irrgularities.

• Freddie Mac (the famous US company) committed $5b financial fraud in 2003 by mistating their earnings (they paid $120m fine).  This did not stop Warren Buffett taking a large  in the company.
• AIG committed a $3.9b fraud. They settled for around $2b.  the CEO Greenberg was fired but never faced criminal charges.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

Lets wait and see...thats why its termed contingent!!

[Captainfrom82]

Hi  C

 

Yep could be wrong , this is the beauty of investing..... See i appreciate the word could...means you have doubts as well...

 

 

My concern is the contingent liabilities and going concern principal...

If Steinhoff wasnt listed in Germany , JSE rules would have suspended this company until that afs is released ....Such is the uncertainty with this company...

 

Hi Polly,

 

The contingent liabilities are indeed a concern.  However, many companies have ongoing contingent liabilities and in fact this could be seen as a cost of doing business.  Currently he following companies are facing lawsuits:

• Glencore has them regarding their mining operations in DRC,
• BP has them regarding the Gulf of Mexico issue (which has not yet been completely settled),
• BHP has this for the tailing dam failings in South America,
• Vale has this for their own dam failure over the past week,
• Huwei has it with the CEO and the supposed Iran sanctions issue,
• Samsung has it regarding their influencing the previous President.
• VW, Audi and BMW are all caught up in the emissions scandal.

The list is endless.  As long as someone feels suitably aggrieved, they will sue. Do you see the contingent liabilities wiping any of those companies off the map?  Of course some companies do fold (Lehman, Enron, WorldCom, etc).

 

But many do not - certainly not for the relatively small scale of the Steinhoff irrgularities.

• Freddie Mac (the famous US company) committed $5b financial fraud in 2003 by mistating their earnings (they paid $120m fine).  This did not stop Warren Buffett taking a large  in the company.
• AIG committed a $3.9b fraud. They settled for around $2b.  the CEO Greenberg was fired but never faced criminal charges.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Captainfrom82]

yep got that wrong..checked last night...always though shoprite was part of africa retail but read Wiese managed to withdraw out of deal in time.. Is thsi correct??

 

Correct now, thank you.

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[new john]

yep got that wrong..checked last night...always though shoprite was part of africa retail but read Wiese managed to withdraw out of deal in time.. Is thsi correct??

 

correct-a-mundo

[Polly]

Hi Polly,

 

Please advise why "Shoprites trading statement seeing they part of Pepkor".

 

These are current two separate and distinct companies.  Can you show me the reason for your conclusions?

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

yep got that wrong..checked last night...always though shoprite was part of africa retail but read Wiese managed to withdraw out of deal in time.. Is thsi correct??

[Snippit]

Shakespeare created "Much Ado About Nothing" a comedy similar to this thread of fake noise makers riding on a roundabout, going nowhere and achieving absolutely nothing. 

 

They want you to buy their clients rubbish dump. Its a big job to drum up so many idiots. Gonna keep all this play acting going for years.

[Captainfrom82]

now hows Shoprites trading statement seeing they part of Pepkor?

 

and sens issued after market closes tells a lot hay!!

 

Hi Polly,

 

Please advise why "Shoprites trading statement seeing they part of Pepkor".

 

These are current two separate and distinct companies.  Can you show me the reason for your conclusions?

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[Polly]

 

I think that Polly has got this one wrong.

 

 

Hi  C

 

Yep could be wrong , this is the beauty of investing..... See i appreciate the word could...means you have doubts as well...

 

 

My concern is the contingent liabilities and going concern principal...

If Steinhoff wasnt listed in Germany , JSE rules would have suspended this company until that afs is released ....Such is the uncertainty with this company...

[Ms Jet]

Don't fool yourself mother Theresa, you not helping or teaching anyone you taking a persons ability to have an opinion with your arrogant over opinionated attitude. Exactly what did Investment Novice say that deserved your wrath? You have lots to say with little facts always speculating to the negative looking all this time don't think I ever noted you saying something positive. Surely with your experience in life you must know in every negative there is always a positive that what people say when the world is crushing focus on the positive. Surely you must be totally nuts if you thing SNH will collapse to nothing and all the employees will be unemployed. Surely you must understand the difficult situation SNH was and now they navigating our of the danger. You always stuck in the past so if my father was a criminal I will be a criminal because he was my father and the worlds of Polly will always see me a criminal? Give it a break let other people have they say and opinion focus rather to put in the sharechat reliable and proper information.

In Fairness, I called Polly wolf of boxburg not day trader and apologise but she was really winding me  up:) I wasn't saying thank you every time she posted as posted a lot, think we just wound each other up..anyway new year and all that so sorry Polly. But I did tell mr snippit that neither Polly or A had contacted me personally with anything untoward. Happy Trading.

[Captainfrom82]

[quote name="Polly" post="282333" timestamp="1548677803"]Hi SK

4. Your suppliers are now scared to supply you goods in case you cany pay. Existing creditors you ask for extension of time but new goods you foreced to pay cash.


Haha I like that point. It's exactly why I met with pepco logistics last yr.... To lower their credit limit etc, I supply them with a logistics service. I also mentioned how "quiet" their distribution Centre was, slow movement of goods is never good and it shud reflect in their q12019.

DayTraderDad I value your comments as I believe you're knowledgeable and know what ur talking about, I also value Pollys comments coz he knows what he's talking about. I think Polly is trying to make you realise that there is a flipside to your views..... and I do not think it should be ignored.... But yes it is your money

I do not believe he's being negative

 

Very interesting debate and the polar opposites between DayTraderDad (with Seeking Knowledge) and Polly (with Lionelza1).

 

Quick question:  If Shoprite or Apple or Aspen or any other company admits accounting irregularities that inflated their earnings by say 20%, and then take the corrective action (reverse all the shenanigans, impair the defective assets, AND THEN IMPAIR THE REST OF THEIR ASSET BASE (because their WACC has now gone up); how much should Mr Market punish those companies?  If the rest of the assets are not affected by fraud/accounting irregularities, and are in fact for the most part churning out some pretty decent numbers all things considered, what makes you suddenly make these assets and their sales worthless?

 

This is the key issue here.  The Market has massively, ENORMOUSLY punished the company beyond all reason.  A very large part of this is the repeated negative press coverage which is relentless.

 

For me, it is pretty simple:

 

1. Was there fraud committed at SNH?  Answer, very likely.  This has been recognised as accounting irregularities, and have been accounted for/corrected in the 1H financials.

 

2. This affected the NAV enormously, but affected the sustainable EBITDA by a much smaller factor.

 

3. The loss that is reflecting on the 1H18 financials and will reflect on the FY18 is a once off with regard to (1) above.

 

I think that Polly has got this one wrong.

 

Lionelza1, are you doing business with Pepco?  Are you certain the company is Pepco?

 

Best Regards

Captainfrom82

[DayTraderDad]

 called

1. wolf of boksburg   ...put on ignore list

 

2. Wolf of bluff         ...   ditto

 

3. Now disgruntled Tekkie Town employee....  joins ignore list

 

 

member 1 and 2 disappeared very soon thereafter...

 

how about  this 5 year old ...

 

Just time wasters , noise and trollers who know nothing about investing and trading despite trying to teach them...time could be used better elsewhere helping others and trading.....

Don't fool yourself mother Theresa, you not helping or teaching anyone you taking a persons ability to have an opinion with your arrogant over opinionated attitude. Exactly what did Investment Novice say that deserved your wrath? You have lots to say with little facts always speculating to the negative looking all this time don't think I ever noted you saying something positive. Surely with your experience in life you must know in every negative there is always a positive that what people say when the world is crushing focus on the positive. Surely you must be totally nuts if you thing SNH will collapse to nothing and all the employees will be unemployed. Surely you must understand the difficult situation SNH was and now they navigating our of the danger. You always stuck in the past so if my father was a criminal I will be a criminal because he was my father and the worlds of Polly will always see me a criminal? Give it a break let other people have they say and opinion focus rather to put in the sharechat reliable and proper information.

[ESS]

I suģgest a good old honest bet on this share, purely for the honour to be crowned as the King of SNH.
Predict the price for SNH at end of each month (last trading day closing price) till December. No need to invest. Best solution to stop name calling. Closest to value get 1 point. Most points win. Sorry I'm not playing but can keep score. My Crystal Ball is broken, investing and trading is serious but have a bit of fun on this truely unknown share