15225 replies to this topic

[LarryK]

This could set a terrible precedent should the class action succeed.

Also,
1. Auditors waiting to 99,9 to refuse signing off (according to MJ they were aware well in advance) started the crises and should be held accountable.
2. Board not publishing unaudited financials is a mistake I hope they regret. Not sure what legal implications this could present.

Anyway, let’s hope for a positive week!

[Tom]

Agree a court case taking 10 to 15 years does not make any sense. Why wait 15 years to maybe get some money back if you can get it back sooner in 2 to 3 years if you allow the company to recover. Dropping the class action lawsuit against Steinhoff will be good for the share price and shareholders. The company can start building and everybody will gain. Now only the vultures (lawyers) will gain in the end. Why wait 15 years to enrich some laywers ???????????

 

The shareholders should be very careful not to pay money for the lawyers in exchange of any promises, be it big, small, attractive or convincing.

Also the shareholders should be very careful not to sign off any of their rights to the lawyers, in exchange of any promise no matter how big, small, attractive, convincing the promise is.

 

It's not the lawyers that decide what is what in the court, and their pre-trial promises or legal opinions (be it genuine or for marketing reasons) is not what the court will decide, it's the court and only the court that makes the final orders.

 

Class actions can take 10 to 15 years if they end up in settlements outside the court, otherwise it can take more than 20 years for the court to make a final order about it, and this particular case is very complicated, and probably will take very long in the court.

 

Historically class actions end up in 0% to 10% compensation, 15% will be difficult, higher than that is rare, and this is to be divided amongst the parties the are found liable to such loss, the court is to decide the percentage each liable party to pay.

 

Steinhoff can be seen by the court as a victim of the misconduct of the former Chairman, former CEO, former CFO, audit committee, and Deloitte.

 

The shareholders need to instruct the lawyers to rather open the compensation cases against all suspected parties other than Steinhoff, that is: Deloitte, ABSA, Roedl & Partner, Standard Chartered, Commerzbank,...etc., the former Chairman, CEO, CFO, audit committee,...etc. in their personal capacity, so the insurance that covered them pay the compensation. 

 

The shareholders need to reach a quick settlement with Steinhoff.

 

A good settlement with Steinhoff would be that Steinhoff is supported, by the shareholders and their lawyers, in opening court cases against the former chairman, former CEO, former CFO, former audit committee members, Deloitte and any other party that is suspected to have done any misconduct, reckless, or negligence, and the award that Steinhoff might win from them is to be given to the shareholders, in exchange for the shareholders freezing their class actions against Steinhoff, and once this is paid to the shareholders then the shareholders to drop their class actions against Steinhoff, in the meantime the shareholders can go on and open cases, in full ,against the other suspected parties (other than Steinhoff).

Edited by Tom, 21 October 2018 - 09:52 PM.

[Milo]

Hi Gals and Guys,

 

Can we agree that the class actions against Steinhoff are harming, and will keep harming the share price, for a long time, especially that there will be court sessions about every other month, and the sensational journalism will keep posting negative sensational news stories about these session, which will keep coming back every other month which will keep causing price drops, and used by the short sellers to create fear.

 

While keeping the court cases against those that maybe committed possible fraud or reckless or negligence, in their personal capacity, or Deloitte.

 

Can we agree that for the shareholders to request the lawyers to drop the class action against Steinhoff, is actually more in the interest of the shareholders.

 

For those that agree, can you please encourage the shareholders to come to an agreement that (( all shareholders )) agree to drop the class actions.

 

For those that don't agree, can you please give us your point of view

 

Agree a court case taking 10 to 15 years does not make any sense. Why wait 15 years to maybe get some money back if you can get it back sooner in 2 to 3 years if you allow the company to recover. Dropping the class action lawsuit against Steinhoff will be good for the share price and shareholders. The company can start building and everybody will gain. Now only the vultures (lawyers) will gain in the end. Why wait 15 years to enrich some laywers ???????????

[leo]

When is Jooste in parli again, wonder how this will affect shares...up or down...still watching snh closely....

Did ask that question earlier....no one seems to know.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Ms Jet]

When is Jooste in parli again, wonder how this will affect shares...up or down...still watching snh closely....

[leo]

market irratic after sens release, noticed it closed 2.7% down on tradegate

eish am not looking forward to next week

Giving myself 3 weeks to buy back in again, till the end.

Hoping for some perceived bad news

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Lionelza1]

The Company can confirm that in excess of 85 per cent of the Group's financial creditors have confirmed their support of the proposed extension and consequently the long-stop date has been amended to 20 November 2018

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

market irratic after sens release, noticed it closed 2.7% down on tradegate

 

eish am not looking forward to next week

[leo]

The Company can confirm that in excess of 85 per cent of the Group's financial creditors have confirmed their support of the proposed extension and consequently the long-stop date has been amended to 20 November 2018

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Lionelza1]

Decent close again albeit a dull day

@leo am also surprised that "slow poison" that we have become accustomed to was non exsistant.. Seems to be holding strong which is great!.. That call for buy by Snippy and IN...looking good

The news that matters is still a mnth away but hey maybe snh surprises us?

So till Monday.... Have a lekka weekend boys and girls

[Investment novice]

Volumes have just dried up....think we heading for that slow poison again...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

May just be that people selling higher and buyers won't budge... Sellers won't dump.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[leo]

Volumes have just dried up....think we heading for that slow poison again...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[leo]

..

Edited by leo, 19 October 2018 - 03:32 PM.

[leo]

I thought was 31 Dec which is a really horrible day to release unless good then party party party..for you peops

Think they jusy mentioned Dec. That was is.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Ms Jet]

Does anyone know when in December the fy17 results will be released?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

I thought was 31 Dec which is a really horrible day to release unless good then party party party..for you peops

[leo]

Does anyone know when in December the fy17 results will be released?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[Motivated]

Hi M, didn't you

 

Hi M, didn't you buy shares on basis you wanted the dividends? In my belief and Im sure Ill be corrected if Im wrong  , once dividends paid the share normally goes down as the value of the shares down due to the divi paid..if you know what I mean,,,ie value diluted...when company builds up more money should go up again...I had 500k in snh so my 18 % rather a lot...but will get it back....but still not nice for anyone....think unless good trader way to go is buy quality shares and no dodgy things that look cheap....good luck....may go in at snh when a lot cheaper buy not 500k...it was way out of proportion with my portfolio....anyway could be worse could have been down to 1.80 and I thought that's where it was going,,,if VEB hadn't saved the day am quite sure it would be low 1.90s now....eeeekkkk....I wont let any of my shares go below 20% max...My npn I bought yesterday already up 1%...maybe better to be a tortoise than a hare...

Hi Miss Jet, 

 

Yes.  That is correct.  I agree with you. 

 

I just need to be more patient. lol It is annoying seeing the balance fluctuate.

I am ignoring it for the moment.  Thank God December is here - will keep me occupied and away from the sell button......

Will visit DBN and CT soon....

 

KR,

M

[Lionelza1]

Hi Gals and Guys,

 

Can we agree that the class actions against Steinhoff are harming, and will keep harming the share price, for a long time, especially that there will be court sessions about every other month, and the sensational journalism will keep posting negative sensational news stories about these session, which will keep coming back every other month which will keep causing price drops, and used by the short sellers to create fear.

 

While keeping the court cases against those that maybe committed possible fraud or reckless or negligence, in their personal capacity, or Deloitte.

 

Can we agree that for the shareholders to request the lawyers to drop the class action against Steinhoff, is actually more in the interest of the shareholders.

 

For those that agree, can you please encourage the shareholders to come to an agreement that (( all shareholders )) agree to drop the class actions.

 

For those that don't agree, can you please give us your point of view

Hi Tom...

 

My view on this is that the Law Firms do not care much about the losses experienced by shareholders, instead they see this as income for themselves, so they will encourage shareholders. VEB has a succuessful background when it comes to cases such as this and it is that which will be sold to shareholders. so get something out instead of nothing

 

They will do this at no charge to the shareholders so shareholders have nothing to loose. Should the case be successfull, VEB will take a % of the lawsuit

 

It is not over......either out of court settlement or a lengthy battle

[Tom]

If it will be difficult to have all shareholder (previous ones and new), to agree to drop their court cases against Steinhoff, then why not ask them to agree to instruct the lawyers to seek a swift settlement (within weeks) to the class actions against Steinhoff, where the shareholder that agrees and accept to get a discounted reasonable settlement (say half of the expected compensation Steinhoff might be liable to) with Steinhoff will get a quick early pay, while the ones that don't can go and take their chances in the court.

This will be better than a long trial against Steinhoff where it will keep harming the share price, and we don't know what outcome there will be (which could take 10 to 15 years, and end up with a small compensation or nothing).

 

While the cases that the shareholders have against Deloitte, ABSA, Barclays and Commerzbank, former Chairman, former CEO and former CFO and their insurances, ...etc. can go to the courts and take the time they take.

Edited by Tom, 19 October 2018 - 12:12 AM.

[Tom]

The following link is to news today, about a case in South Africa, very similar to to the one against Steinhoff, and the result was that the (South African) law doesn't oblige a JSE listed company to give the shareholders any compensation in case the share price drops, this shows that the court case that was opened in South Africa in 8-August-2018 will have little chance of success,.

https://www.business...f-shareholders/

"The court has confirmed that in SA law shareholders cannot sue for what’s referred to as "reflective" losses."

"A loss claimed by a shareholder as a result of a wrong done to the company is merely a reflection of the loss suffered by the company," says the court."

"Limited liability comes with limited rights for the shareholder. Those limited rights do not stretch to suing for the loss of value of their shares."

"This means that if Steinhoff’s shareholders want some action to be taken against the directors and auditors they will have to persuade the company to launch that action.

"This takes us to the rather bizarre situation that it is down to the board of directors to make the decision on whether or not the company is going to take action against the directors and auditors. Alternatively, the shareholders can try to launch a derivative action on behalf of the company."

 

 

VEB claims that in The Netherlands class actions has a favourable chance of success, however in the following older news article from 8-8-2018, the South African lawyers claim the opposite of it and of what's in the previous news article, and claim that in South Africa the class actions against Steinhoff has better chances in than the ones elsewhere:

https://www.business...gins-in-joburg/

"a member of LHL Attorneys, says there is a specific reason why SA has been chosen for the class action. “SA has a well-established and reliable legal system with favourable legislation that we believe will allow aggrieved investors to be fairly compensated for their losses. Moreover, SA’s true opt-out class-action procedure is superior to the proceedings available in the Netherlands and Germany and, thus, will contribute to the protection of all shareholders, large and small alike.”".

 

This miss in the courts against Steinhoff, is not in the best interest of the share holders, for the shareholders to come together and agree that all shareholders to drop all class actions and court cases against Steinhoff will be better, this will help Steinhoff save on time and money on defending class actions, and make the share price improve.

Edited by Tom, 18 October 2018 - 11:51 PM.