15225 replies to this topic

[DayTraderDad]

Good call!

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I think its shorters attacking SNH.

[leo]

Downwards pressure is immense

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[leo]

Interesting: On the 5th Dec there was about 4,200 mil shares in issue therefore 20% is 840 mil shares. On that day market open in Frankfurt at E3.10 and closed at E1.10 so the loss is E2. So the total loss of those share holders is E1,68 bil. So according to the article below VEB expects a 20% payout that is E336 mil. VEB lawyers will earn 9% of that which is E30.24 mil.

https://www.fin24.co...hoff-20180325-2

Sickening.



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[DayTraderDad]

Haha. Indeed.

Legal okes are killing it

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Interesting: On the 5th Dec there was about 4,200 mil shares in issue therefore 20% is  840 mil shares. On that day market open in Frankfurt at E3.10 and closed at E1.10 so the loss is E2. So the total loss of those share holders is E1,68 bil. So according to the article below VEB expects a 20% payout that is  E336 mil. VEB lawyers will earn 9% of that which is E30.24 mil.

 

https://www.fin24.co...hoff-20180325-2

[leo]

Im not buying more sitting masses snh shares...im waiting for it to go up even if goes down first

Good call!

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[Ms Jet]

Im not buying more sitting masses snh shares...im waiting for it to go up even if goes down first

[leo]

Think the back of 230 is going to break today. Not sure when and when the slow poison will stop. From past experience, this can sometimes run for upto a week before any significant news is released. Ie mid Oct.

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[leo]

Only 1 group of people winning here and as usual the legal teams....it'll all settle down and share should go up... theres live in the old dog yet....patience is key...unfortunately I was even born early so patience is something I am working on

Haha. Indeed.

Legal okes are killing it

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[Ms Jet]

Well done. Very informative. Just not sure what they want to achieve. Nothing of nothing...is well...nothing. they stand behind secured creditors.

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Only 1 group of people winning here and as usual the legal teams....it'll all settle down and share should go up... theres live in the old dog yet....patience is key...unfortunately I was even born early so patience is something I am working on

[leo]

https://www.africa-n...aw-firm?lang=en

Well done. Very informative. Just not sure what they want to achieve. Nothing of nothing...is well...nothing. they stand behind secured creditors.

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[DayTraderDad]

https://www.africa-n...aw-firm?lang=en

[DayTraderDad]

Why you all on a downer...this is typical snh...will come up again and you traders will make loads..

Agree all indices in Europe are down the DAX is -0.78% in the red so expect SNH will also stay down.

[Tom]

Yes, and I also (if you read a previous comment of mine) say that it's ( safer ) for Steinhoff to sell assets, however restructuring and cost cutting is also good.

 

                   revenue           ebitda           liability                 assets    intangibles    non-intangibles    share price(ZAR)         Market Capitalization

SNH               18.7(H1*2)    0.8                9.3(debt only)       20               9.4              10.6                          2.5                                  0.6

SNH2016       13                  1.4                16                          32             16                 16                          80                                   20

MTN                8                   2.8                8.8                       14              2.3              11.7                      130(now 80)                       9

PIK                  0.5                0.2                0.8                         1              0.1                0.9                        67                                     2

SHP                8.6                0.4                2                            3.7           1.8                1.9                      190                                      7

PPH(Pepkor)  3.4                0.2                0.3(now 0)             5              3.6                1.4                        22(now17)                         3

 

If you analyze the above table of rough estimate I collected from the internet, you might probably find that the safer option for Steinhoff is to sell assets (at a fair price).

However restructuring, cost cutting, and improving the Ebitda, is also needed.

[leo]

At least the volumes are up

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[Ms Jet]

Why you all on a downer...this is typical snh...will come up again and you traders will make loads..

[Tom]

Tom even the Chair lady said in parliament they will be selling assets. The LUA gives them time so no need for fire sale.

 

Yes, and I also (if you read a previous comment of mine) say that it's ( safer ) for Steinhoff to sell assets, however restructuring and cost cutting is also good.

[leo]

Read this article make good sense: https://seekingalpha...date-comes-next

 

Tx chief. Yea, what can you say.

 

Def agree, a fire sale of assets would've been the worst. Vultures would've started with our eyes first.

[DayTraderDad]

Leo you should not feel embarrassed trading is all about ignoring all the media, comments because they are noise. I scan all articles comments then make up my mind pending in my thoughts and calculations. Everybody talking about the debt of E9.8 bil but if you take the sales of Kika, the settlement of POCO and when they get to take back the E350 mil that they gave Wiese in advance that equated to about E1.3bil so the debt is now E8.5 bil. Once managements gets all business running well they should be operating on a EBITDA of about E1.2 bil which is 7% of Turnover. With a debt/EBITDA of x5 they can carry a debt of E6.3 bil fwd after 2012, So they have 3 years to sell assets (my view they will reduce holding of Pepko SA) to get the E2.2 bil. If one takes into account that Pepko Europe is growing things will be much different in 3 years. Anyway hope this make you feel better.

Read this article make good sense: https://seekingalpha...date-comes-next

[DayTraderDad]

The following text is from Steinhoff SENS:

"

For SEAG and SUSHI guaranteed creditors, the Company guarantees remain fully outstanding until the maximum amount payable by the Company under the guarantees has been paid by it or an amount has been received by the SEAG guaranteed creditors equal to restated debt plus PIK interest capped at 5% (with an increase to 10% if Governance Shareholder Resolution is not passed).

"

 

Here it says the interest is capped at 5%

Tom even the Chair lady said in parliament they will be selling assets. The LUA gives them time so no need for fire sale.

[Tom]

Think about it.

Normalised EBITDA is about 800€, 9.8b debt at 10% ie 980€ interest. No profit.

Sale of assets is unavoidable and they should start with MF.



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The following text is from Steinhoff SENS:

"

For SEAG and SUSHI guaranteed creditors, the Company guarantees remain fully outstanding until the maximum amount payable by the Company under the guarantees has been paid by it or an amount has been received by the SEAG guaranteed creditors equal to restated debt plus PIK interest capped at 5% (with an increase to 10% if Governance Shareholder Resolution is not passed).

"

 

Here it says the interest is capped at 5%