15225 replies to this topic

[Ms Jet]

10 percent of nothing is nothing..still cant imagine why theyd stay involved..i wouldn't if dire situation

[leo]

Taking this all on board..but if no way out surely trading would been halted...and lenders wouldn't been that daft?

Majority of debt was bought out by equity loan investors, between 60 to 75c of face value. Plus, now they getting 10% p.a. with some added risk, but rates in Europe is very low, say 2%. So it's not in their interests to liquidate the company as they'll loose a lot more.

Re suspension. You're allowed to trade if you not a going concern, although it will probably be close to 1c.

This share should be traded with great caution in my opinion.

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[Ms Jet]

Taking this all on board..but if no way out surely trading would been halted...and lenders wouldn't been that daft?

[leo]

What is the value of the SNH assets? Imagine you have a car that you put an advertisement for a price but then people ear you need to sell the car because you need cash. Don't you think immediately people will offer you less because they know you are in financial trouble? So whats so different to SNH. In time once the company is stable then there is no need to sell assets then obviously if you want to buy Conforama or Mattress Firm a investor would have to pay more thus you company assets are with more. This test is done every year just like Jooste said.

Simple answer. Net tangible assets value is the sum of all physical assets less all liabilities.

Go look at my previous posts dealing the breakdown of NAV.

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[DayTraderDad]

 Hi Larry,

 

IMO - If the Half year figures for 2018 is correct, the investigation or withdrawal if it, will have not material effect on it. Cash is gone, Liabilities sky high (those are the current facts).

What is the value of the SNH assets? Imagine you have a car that you put an advertisement for a price but then people ear you need to sell the car because you need cash. Don't you think immediately people will offer you less because they know you are in financial trouble? So whats so different to SNH. In time once the company is stable then there is no need to sell assets then obviously if you want to buy Conforama or Mattress Firm a investor would have to pay more thus you company assets are with more. This test is done every year just like Jooste said.

[Lionelza1]

Investing is all about being informed, ignore the market noise, and stick to principles with the main ingredient being patient. A few years back I saw TELKOM dropping to R13 and I bought a lot only to hear in summit tv David Shapiro saying saying that TELKOM was going to zero ( my thought was how the hell does he see this because how is it possible the single fixed line telecoms company is now going bust!!) . a couple years later made a killing sold out at R50. Many years back again in summit tv the expert saying to by DIDATA because it was so good then the very next day it collapsed. I find shorters tend to talk a share down (for their own benefit) and once they get in their mind the share is going down they tend to try and convince themselves and others that there is no tomorrow. I agree no one really knows whats around the corner but what is more interesting no one ever talks about its bad decisions people tend to forget them. Haha

Gambling... Luck. Good results from a company tainted with a rumour and market price it down, u sit scratching ur head asking wtf happened...pffftttt.... Not for me

[leo]

Leo thank you for the information.

May I ask your opinion on the comment jooste made about the fact that ze German government spent 2 years with their investigation yet they found nothing illegal. Compared to what will/could be published by pwc?

 Hi Larry,

 

IMO - If the Half year figures for 2018 is correct, the investigation or withdrawal if it, will have not material effect on it. Cash is gone, Liabilities sky high (those are the current facts).

[Ms Jet]

Read this article is in Spanish use google translate: http://www.europapre...0110181225.html

This is very positive

[LarryK]

By default on the above. You'll value the company on NAV. NAV is about R9, with massive amount of intangible assets, ie you'll take a deep discount price to book, say 50%.

So... if this share trades above 5 bucks after the pwc report....I'll be very surprised.

Think very carefully before pumping all your money into this thing before the pwc report, which may not be the white night that we all hoping for.

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Leo thank you for the information.

May I ask your opinion on the comment jooste made about the fact that ze German government spent 2 years with their investigation yet they found nothing illegal. Compared to what will/could be published by pwc?

[leo]

Some comparables.. which is scary...

Massmart - Last 2 years, EBITDA margins were about R3.5b, with EBITDA multiples of between 9x and 10x, (on enterprise value, ie before cash and cash equivalent adj), less debt R1.5b, plus cash R2.4b. Say, 3.5b x 9 (multiple) - 1.5 + 2.4 = Market R32b, vs current market cap of R22b (moneyweb)... so i'm a little out. Now apply same principals to Steinhof

Steinh has a normalised H1FY18 €m340 (x2 as it's half year), ie thus Euro680m x by a multiple is say 9x = Euro 6.1b....less Euro9.8b debt... is negative....


Please comment if the above does not make sense....

By default on the above. You'll value the company on NAV. NAV is about R9, with massive amount of intangible assets, ie you'll take a deep discount price to book, say 50%.

So... if this share trades above 5 bucks after the pwc report....I'll be very surprised.

Think very carefully before pumping all your money into this thing before the pwc report, which may not be the white night that we all hoping for.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Sharenet Sharechat mobile app

[DayTraderDad]

If we could predict future on how the market trends, we'd all be billionaires... Pumped in more shares avg down....still got that feeling in my balls for october... If it comes sooner yippee Kay yay motherfucker... If it goes lower I pump more

Got shares in aveng at 7c now... Could've bought at 1c and then next day avg suspended on JSE.... Gosh I've read so many "intelligent" threads on ppls views/opinions etc on different shares with this and that stories.. and yea go ask then how it played out...I've seen the market trend 98% went opposite way... Consensus on Blu 100% buy since 3mnths now? Go check the trend

Investing is all about being informed, ignore the market noise, and stick to principles with the main ingredient being patient. A few years back I saw TELKOM dropping to R13 and I bought a lot only to hear in summit tv David Shapiro saying saying that TELKOM was going to zero ( my thought was how the hell does he see this because how is it possible the single fixed line telecoms company is now going bust!!) . a couple years later made a killing sold out at R50. Many years back again in summit tv the expert saying to by DIDATA because it was so good then the very next day it collapsed. I find shorters tend to talk a share down (for their own benefit) and once they get in their mind the share is going down they tend to try and convince themselves and others that there is no tomorrow. I agree no one really knows whats around the corner but what is more interesting no one ever talks about its bad decisions people tend to forget them. Haha

[Lionelza1]

If we could predict future on how the market trends, we'd all be billionaires... Pumped in more shares avg down....still got that feeling in my balls for october... If it comes sooner yippee Kay yay motherfucker... If it goes lower I pump more

Got shares in aveng at 7c now... Could've bought at 1c and then next day avg suspended on JSE.... Gosh I've read so many "intelligent" threads on ppls views/opinions etc on different shares with this and that stories.. and yea go ask then how it played out...I've seen the market trend 98% went opposite way... Consensus on Blu 100% buy since 3mnths now? Go check the trend

[leo]

Some comparables.. which is scary...

 

Massmart - Last 2 years, EBITDA margins were about R3.5b, with EBITDA multiples of between 9x and 10x, (on enterprise value, ie before cash and cash equivalent adj), less debt R1.5b, plus cash R2.4b. Say, 3.5b x 9 (multiple) - 1.5 + 2.4 = Market R32b, vs current market cap of R22b (moneyweb)... so i'm a little out. Now apply same principals to Steinhof 

 

Steinh has a normalised H1FY18 €m340 (x2 as it's half year), ie thus Euro680m x by a multiple is say 9x = Euro 6.1b....less Euro9.8b debt... is negative....

 

 

Please comment if the above does not make sense....

[DayTraderDad]

Read this article is in Spanish use google translate: http://www.europapre...0110181225.html

[DayTraderDad]

We also need to factor institutional investors in once financials are published, shouldn’t we dad?

Yes and there is a furniture chain in Spain that has also been buying SNH shares which for me could take to a merger with Conforama in time. I read the article in May will post the link when I find it again.

[Matrix]

Good evening from the beautifull Bahamas

Spent an hour reading this thread

 

Sorry to conclude that this thread has degenerated from a circus to absolute stupidity and hit rock bottom.

Newbies giving other newbies advise. I cant even say its gambling anymore. Not one post makes any sense but pure garbage. My last post here as not worth the effort trying to educate these newbies who invest with there balls, sens, pwc, bankruptcy, Deloittes etc etc. They dont even know we had a closeout auction at midday yesterday and someone said JSE down,

 

As i said before if you cannot control risk, your DAD will have to take control of you.

 

Seems each and everyone here is experiencing pain pain pain. Worst part is more to come.

 

Bye

 

Spot on.

The biggest irony of this thread is that most people complain about the price not going up due to shorters and trading.

Just about averyone in this thread is trading. "If it hits R3.00 I'm selling." "I'm out by October." "Sold everything, but back in now."

Besides all the other issues and variables, this share will not rise without trust and long term investment returning to the share.

Very little people in this thread actually plan to invest long term and trust this share.

 

I was very hopeful for SNH, but sold out at R2.64.

Taking a gamble on Aveng which I believe has lower risk with higher potential return, but still accepting the risk.

 

Good luck all, really do hope it works out for everyone!!

[Ms Jet]

Good evening from the beautifull Bahamas

Spent an hour reading this thread

 

Sorry to conclude that this thread has degenerated from a circus to absolute stupidity and hit rock bottom.

Newbies giving other newbies advise. I cant even say its gambling anymore. Not one post makes any sense but pure garbage. My last post here as not worth the effort trying to educate these newbies who invest with there balls, sens, pwc, bankruptcy, Deloittes etc etc. They dont even know we had a closeout auction at midday yesterday and someone said JSE down,

 

As i said before if you cannot control risk, your DAD will have to take control of you.

 

Seems each and everyone here is experiencing pain pain pain. Worst part is more to come.

 

Bye

Hey Polly enjoy,,,we still want your advise..

[LarryK]

I believe by end of Dec after the reports and financials the share will be at R9 or R12. At present NAV is estimated at 0.58 Euro that equates to R9.86 just needs to be backed up with proper financials

We also need to factor institutional investors in once financials are published, shouldn’t we dad?

[Chris101]

With standardbank share trading app you can change your buy/sell prices and amend orders as many times as you like. Way better functionality than fnb.

Jip

 

Tried them all

FNB = Shitty

absa = Shitty

PSG = Shitty

 

Standard Bank is great

They had a nice chatforum which they demolised to make it so **** it is tottally useless.

 

I was so glad to find this forum after being out of the bush for a few years!

I find it very great to be able to hear from normal and Expert people of what is going on in markets!

The companes Brokers technical Advise is normally VERY VERY Conservative and they will never advise me on buuysing Steinhoff, Aveng etc!

[Ms Jet]

Jet you can easily calculate this if youve got your transaction history available...the number of shares youve bought each time and the price youve paid.

If youre on 2.66 then im indeed happy for you as you can then see the light at the end of the tunnel much more easily.

Im baffled my workings y average is 2.93 theirs 2.66,,Ive rung and queried and they say I have a credit of 59000 coming for other shares I sold yesterday...To me the 59000 I spent on Steinhoff???? He assures me 2.66 and I know how a calculator works...I said if I put in a sell and you've made a mistake and its less than my current 2.93 what happens do I loose out and he said its correct....But bank will adjust if they make mistake and Ill have egg in my face....Dunno what to do..If so low wouldn't mind trying for a bit profit making,,,why not....but don't want a loss when they cop on