15225 replies to this topic

[Blackobar]

some nice austerity measures filtering through; board clean up; and so on.
its a waiting game now hey.
the media coverage has been poor as most articles regurgitate what they think they have read from the SENS or what they can sensationalise.
really hope that all is not as bad and some share recovery occurs for the pension funds and for SA's reputation.

You can't blame the media coverage. Steinhoff shareholders are getting little to no information on what's going on, they are just sitting and waiting hoping for "better news" from Steinhoff honchos . The thugs running Steinhoff are the worst, i really feel bad for their shareholders

[Investment novice]

some nice austerity measures filtering through; board clean up; and so on.

its a waiting game now hey.

the media coverage has been poor as most articles regurgitate what they think they have read from the SENS or what they can sensationalise.

really hope that all is not as  bad and some share recovery occurs for the pension funds and for SA's reputation.

 

 

[Investment novice]

"All these ratios tell me is that I would not have bought Steinhoff because it is not a great business. Maybe I am just not clever enough to look at this and see fraud, but I also look at these ratios and see an aggressive Group making large acquisitions as it quickly tries to internationalise itself.

In other words, once again, the conclusion is not conclusive"...its a rather interesting article http://smallcaps.co....-grandstanders/

and reiterates what we saying- business in high growth phase that is a problem child requiring maturation and integration.

 

some really strong assets with good management- Cost of debt --hmmm

 

bullhunter- not sure if we read the same article or you just quoted the heading that does not really relate to the article

[Bullhunter]

short term liquidity issues seem to be resolved. Businesses are pumping. Buy on the dips and lets hope we can ride this from under R10 back to at least R30.

ifrs issues but also some directors misappropriation and misrepresentation. IFRS issues alone would not result in CEO resignation. Hole in balance sheet will be accommodated.

 

looking calmer no doubt

 

bravery required now, balls of steel

Steinhoff is rubbish:

 

http://smallcaps.co....-grandstanders/

[Investment novice]

short term liquidity issues seem to be resolved. Businesses are pumping. Buy on the dips and lets hope we can ride this from under R10 back to at least R30.

ifrs issues but also some directors misappropriation and misrepresentation. IFRS issues alone would not result in CEO resignation. Hole in balance sheet will be accommodated.

 

looking calmer no doubt

 

bravery required now, balls of steel

[SoleTrader]

HI I have been following this saga with limited factual evidence trying to make heads or tales. what's evident is that media sensationalism and lack of understanding of what is being relayed in the SENS. Most journalists perhaps for their own benefit are paraphrasing each other and extracting or assuming what is being relayed.

I too am making assumptions .

 

1. There is certainly Fraud, but most probably related to a limited number of executives excluding Wiese. Since there are legal ramifications the financial statements have to be restated according to dutch accounting law 362.6 . This does not imply the financials are grossly inadequate. we could be looking at a few 100 million euro worth of fraud and siphoning. I suspect related to the three companies within the European stables where there were repurchases. It is unlikely to be massive fraud as the CFO would also have been implicated. The CEO has the DOA for decision making but there still is a 2:1 rule implicating the board which would have limited gross fraud.

 

2. due to legal issues the due process on this is intensive and includes the german and dutch fsb as well as criminal court. hence information may only be shared at the appropriate time. unfortunately we as shareholders want more information. the company has tried to calm us by talking about the strength of the balance sheet.

 

3. Short term liquidity has been managed but credit insurance is an issue due to non disclosure. Credit insurance rather than credit itself. seems the media has jumped solely on to the credit insurance and assumed it includes credit. sure there maybe credit issues but this will be overcome by paying premiums.

 

4. The key lenders have agreed to support Steinhoff based on the introduction of the presentation where Steinhoff exec thanks them.

 

5. Shareholder value is most certainly eroded but some recovery may be achieved with the improved governance and implementation of processes. interestingly this in itself strengthens the company for future growth and pushes through integration.

 

6. C Wiese is fighting tooth and nail to salvage his billions- he has the most to lose and most to recover.

 

7. short term this share is high risk but also high reward- with the restatement of results we should expect the share at R15-R30, with a bottom of R3.80 or suspension. Upside warrants a risk and I would buy anywhere R5- R11

 

whats your thoughts

Point 6 says it all.  I have taken a "too big to fail" view.  All operations seems to be doing well.  My contacts supplying HiFi Corp told me they are being paid on time, A large debt payment was due to ABSA, which was made on time.  The SENS yesterday alluded to IFRS issues as opposed to a  massive siphoned hole in the balance sheet,  If there was theft, surely arrests would be made? 

[Investment novice]

HI I have been following this saga with limited factual evidence trying to make heads or tales. what's evident is that media sensationalism and lack of understanding of what is being relayed in the SENS. Most journalists perhaps for their own benefit are paraphrasing each other and extracting or assuming what is being relayed.

I too am making assumptions .

 

1. There is certainly Fraud, but most probably related to a limited number of executives excluding Wiese. Since there are legal ramifications the financial statements have to be restated according to dutch accounting law 362.6 . This does not imply the financials are grossly inadequate. we could be looking at a few 100 million euro worth of fraud and siphoning. I suspect related to the three companies within the European stables where there were repurchases. It is unlikely to be massive fraud as the CFO would also have been implicated. The CEO has the DOA for decision making but there still is a 2:1 rule implicating the board which would have limited gross fraud.

 

2. due to legal issues the due process on this is intensive and includes the german and dutch fsb as well as criminal court. hence information may only be shared at the appropriate time. unfortunately we as shareholders want more information. the company has tried to calm us by talking about the strength of the balance sheet.

 

3. Short term liquidity has been managed but credit insurance is an issue due to non disclosure. Credit insurance rather than credit itself. seems the media has jumped solely on to the credit insurance and assumed it includes credit. sure there maybe credit issues but this will be overcome by paying premiums.

 

4. The key lenders have agreed to support Steinhoff based on the introduction of the presentation where Steinhoff exec thanks them.

 

5. Shareholder value is most certainly eroded but some recovery may be achieved with the improved governance and implementation of processes. interestingly this in itself strengthens the company for future growth and pushes through integration.

 

6. C Wiese is fighting tooth and nail to salvage his billions- he has the most to lose and most to recover.

 

7. short term this share is high risk but also high reward- with the restatement of results we should expect the share at R15-R30, with a bottom of R3.80 or suspension. Upside warrants a risk and I would buy anywhere R5- R11

 

whats your thoughts

[SoleTrader]

Do we buy or wait? Took some at sub 5 this morning.  As someone told me, maybe the pre-crash price was too high and the current price is too low.  

[Investment novice]

board strengthened in keeping with banker demands.....hope this is the positive sign we looking for

[Investment novice]

great festive season trading opportunity here...if banks are willing to roll over loan they probably would be somewhat convinced by Steinhoffs arguments and sustainability....this would set the share up for a mild recovery to track from R9 to R20 plus rands or even more if the analysts that are quite start to increase their holdings. if not then all hell breaks loose and this share will pretty much reach new lows???

 

does anyone have any further insight???

 

[Snippit]

Such a fuss about some ethical stuff, without the Frankfurter listing there would be no fuss at all. We don't do that old hat morality cos we way ahead of all that. We bribe auditors as a matter of normal practice. We bribe and pay bribes all day long. Its the way of doing business. Ethics prevents business. Its one or the other not both.

[Investment novice]

extremely valid point for medium term view- Thank you for your guidance.

short term trading environment though - and this is a rand hedge not knowing what transpires sunday and the market reaction.bank decision may stimulate some recovery to trade

 

 

[Investment novice]

extremely valid point for medium term view- Thank you for your guidance.

short term trading environment though - and this is a rand hedge not knowing what transpires sunday and the market reaction.bank decision may stimulate some recovery to trade

 

 

[Polly]

Few interesting points to note

 

1. SENS STAR this morning demonstrates value of underlying assets

2. increased governance measures

3. Steinhoff valuation less than the assets that are owned by it

4. analysts have a hold view- have not seen many calling for sell- definitely cant rate as buy due to their risk management policies

5. high volume trades consistently

6. large employee base

7. banks with vested interest that would rather see Steinhoff remain as a going concern to recoup debts rather than write off losses

8. Pension funds involvement

9. lots of public outcry and accusations on issues but the facts have yet to be disclosed. also tax avoidance is not a criminal act but tax evasion is

 

The above points may give one assurance on betting the house on this share.

 

on the 19th the probability of the banks agreeing to a rescue plan seems plausible- this may the one reason this share has not tanked to R1.  I expect this share to be range bound between R9-R11 until the 18th with surge on the close of business 18th. It may be that Banks respond already by the 18th so I would hazard that it is best to get in today???

 

ride the share for two weeks

 

what are your thoughts........

 

One must firstly be happy with what happened in previous years.

 

 

 

Fraud or genuine accounting mistake.

 

 

If fraud keep away

 

 

As yet no one seems to know

[Investment novice]

Few interesting points to note

 

1. SENS STAR this morning demonstrates value of underlying assets

2. increased governance measures

3. Steinhoff valuation less than the assets that are owned by it

4. analysts have a hold view- have not seen many calling for sell- definitely cant rate as buy due to their risk management policies

5. high volume trades consistently

6. large employee base

7. banks with vested interest that would rather see Steinhoff remain as a going concern to recoup debts rather than write off losses

8. Pension funds involvement

9. lots of public outcry and accusations on issues but the facts have yet to be disclosed. also tax avoidance is not a criminal act but tax evasion is

 

The above points may give one assurance on betting the house on this share.

 

on the 19th the probability of the banks agreeing to a rescue plan seems plausible- this may the one reason this share has not tanked to R1.  I expect this share to be range bound between R9-R11 until the 18th with surge on the close of business 18th. It may be that Banks respond already by the 18th so I would hazard that it is best to get in today???

 

ride the share for two weeks

 

what are your thoughts........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Investment novice]

good company with solid financials, I am guessing better ring fenced. try to get some at R15 or R16

[Goliath]

Anyone looking at STAR (Steinhoff African Retail) for the long run..? Tempted at these levels..

[SoleTrader]

Where to from here? Dead cat bounce? Or, more downside till results (audited) are released (if ever released!)??

Anyone buying at these levels? Or, is it just too toxic to touch?

Any chance the share could be suspended??

I took a very small amount at 720c yesterday. I think newsflow is proving. Meeting with bankers implying results will be released. Someone buying, and not just shorts. Talk that non management insiders at steinhoff buying as well. Just wonder where that criminal jooste is?

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