15225 replies to this topic

[Investment novice]

would the asset managers be buying to drive the price and reduce their average cost of holding the shares? with all the built up liability and criminality here you think this company would soon be dissected completely and sold off piecemeal.

[Bullhunter]

One has to wonder, who is buying!!

40% of SNH script was on loan i.e to short sellers. If short sellers want to close their position (take profit) they close by buying the actual shares.

[Shi]

One has to wonder, who is buying!!

[DividendTycoon]

Personally would not buy now, it essentially a gamble.

 

I would actually be worried if I held Shoprite, did Wiese know nothing?? Why did Whitey Basson cash out all his Shoprite? Would have thought it was a good place to keep at least some of your money??

[Spree]

Where to from here? Dead cat bounce? Or, more downside till results (audited) are released (if ever released!)??

Anyone buying at these levels? Or, is it just too toxic to touch?

Any chance the share could be suspended??

[Procrastinator]

The most worrying aspect of this goof up is that the GEPF is showing a paper loss of 12 billion, Gigaba will use this as an excuse to hoof the board of the GEPF so that he can replace them with his operators. Would be very surprised if something like this is not on the cards.
Watch this space.....
Ramifications for SA could likely be very bad.

[Procrastinator]

Am sure I saw a sens from Steinhoff recently regarding a zero cost collar or something placed on futures markets by Weise over some shares, maybe a week or 2 ago, wonder if he was hedging a proper smack to his shares. If so wonder if JSE etc would be on to him for acting on his inside knowledge of the pending shitstorm.
Anyone else know, have deleted the sens.

[Polly]

We already had EOH, now Steinhoff...who is next??  My call Aspen!

 

All manipulated balance sheets whose profits just grow and grow unbelievably...issuing script

 

Skeletons has to show up sometime.

[Bullhunter]

Nedgroup Opportunity fund had 7.25 million ( +134%) more Steinhoff International shares as at the 30th  Spetember 2017 versus 30th June 2017.

 

Eina!

Edited by Bullhunter, 06 December 2017 - 03:40 PM.

[Shi]

1600c and still going

[sommerso]

Sadly I was on of those opportunists today. Had a brief 6% in the greens. Interesting that the price seems to be "stable" at about just below R20, looking at the trades it looks a bit manipulated? Wonder if anyone is accumulating.....  

 

 

[LiveInExcess]

Opportunistic buyers starting to dry up now...... must watch this one

[Bullhunter]

Following media reports overnight, Steinhoff has released a SENS statement today indicating that it has found new information relating to accounting irregularities, prompting it to cancel its results release today and delay the audited results release until further notice. The CEO, Markus Jooste, has stepped down with immediate effect. Christo Wiese is taking over as executive chairman. We hold Steinhoff shares on behalf of our client base. To place this in context, this company is widely owned by institutional investors in South Africa and as of yesterday was a top 10 company in the JSE SWIX All Share index.

At this stage, there are clearly more unknowns than known information pertaining to the group’s real financial position and operations. It is clear that fraud remains a distinct possibility given the above information.

What we do know is the following:

• The group has approximately R21 per share of value in the listed stakes that it owns (STAR, PSG and KAP International), per closing prices of these shares on 5^th December. It is likely there is some contagion in these assets, and indeed these shares are experiencing selling pressure today.
• There is net debt on Steinhoff’s balance sheet of ~R100bn, or R23 per share.
• Aside from its operational household goods retail and manufacturing assets, the group is a significant investor in retail properties in Europe. While we should be suspicious of its reported segmental accounting, it disclosed €243m of operating income from properties in FY16. This could yield a value of €4bn, or R15 per share, and could be regarded as a source of liquidity should the group be broken up into its component parts.
• This leaves the core operating assets, of which we can be highly uncertain of the value given likely fraud. The key concern investors will have now is that, short of a fire sale of the group’s non-controlled assets to reduce debt, the confidence of debt funders will have all but evaporated and this is likely to place pressure on the group’s ability to fund itself in the normal course of business. A negative operational impact is a certainty.

At the time of writing, the share price is R23.00 this morning and is likely to be highly volatile. We have taken an in-principle decision to exit our holdings given the above developments, but given the share price response this morning we will do this in a manner that maximises value for our clients. It is likely that fundamental value is above current levels – even in a break-up of the business scenario – but the company has clearly lost the trust of institutional investors (ourselves included) and this could weigh on listed values for some time.

[LiveInExcess]

This has been incredible, spent the whole morning refreshing my screen........

[DividendTycoon]

The Thomson Reuters average analyst valuation for Steinhoff is R85. With the share currently trading at around R60 per share, this suggests that there is a one-year potential upswing of 41%.

 

https://www.fin24.co...inhoff-20171030

Wonder what the 'analysts' valuations are now?? South Africa has particularly mediocre analysts, just look at the CIL saga.

[SoleTrader]

and today did not have the courtesy to issue a sens statement regarding this....Management stinks if you ask me.

And that is why the Rupert's and the Wieses don't mix. The latter think the former are snobs and the former think the latter are cons

[Spree]

and today did not have the courtesy to issue a sens statement regarding this.Q...Management stinks if you ask me.

Agree. Their consistent reluctance to disclose information raises a lot of suspicion.

If, as they claim, the rules are unclear on whether this transaction was material and, thus, notifiable, why do they not just err on the side of caution and disclose! It makes one wonder what further skeletons are they hiding in that seemingly bottomless closet??

[Polly]

and today did not have the courtesy to issue a sens statement regarding this.... Management stinks if you ask me.

[Polly]

Why the big drop today?

You know steihhoff..always fiddling and farting with their accounts....

 

In trouble again with European financial disclosure rules.Did not tell investors about $1b in transactions with related company.

[Rulz3]

Why the big drop today?