15225 replies to this topic

[Tom]

It would have been better for the management of Steinhoff to stick to their initial decision to not pay Wiese till he sorts out with Conservatorium, even if that means putting the whole settlement on hold, or adjusting it to just settle with all other claims that are small in total money claim size but big in quantity of claims, and can be delayed another couple of years too. However Steinhoff management thought that they can just ignore Conservatorium, thinking that Conservatorium can only go against Weise, and ignore Conservatorium's win in the Cape court, and now they're put themselves in a head collision with Conservatorium, with potentially totally devastating consequences.

 

In the SENS, the statement:

"SIHNV will respond to the request in due course"

sounds defiant which isn't a good idea at all.

 

The share holders now need to move immediately to get the management to rectify its direction, before all is lost. The money of the current share holders might be lost, and the claim money of the claimant shareholders might be lost.

[Polla]

haha tom. Thats a little dramatic. I may be wrong but this is my take on it.

 

The Feb 8 hearing does not materially impact anything like that. I do not see the Conservatorium restructuring expert having that much influence that they would all of a sudden liquidate based on their input. Steinhoff has walked a long road and their plan is quite mature. Why would they all of a sudden agree to liquidate when a minority party wants them to?

 

The scheme of arrangement that will probably be pushed through the courts at the end of the month overides their unwillingness to participate and aligns their interests to that of the 80+ % of creditors that have approved of the scheme.

Conservatorium simply do not have significant enough weighting behind them at this stage to derail this process unless I am missing something?

I agree. Very dramatic. The 8th of February hearing is actually Conservatorium pulling the last of all their rabbits from the hat.  I can't see any court appointing a restructuring expert in such a complex business where more than 80%, closer to 90%, of all creditors are in favor of the proposal on the table.  They might have a case with the 21st January hearing regarding certain class proposals of the claimants, but that still have to be seen.

I also can't see the hearing of the 26-27th January going the way of an absolute minority. But time will tell.

 

What is important, and stated in the SENS, is that SARB granted approval for the settlement and that it is valid for one year.  Obviously one can re-apply for extension of this approval, but no one knows if the situation in the RSA economy might change so dire for this approval to be extended.  If not, it might get messy...... for all stakeholders.... Conservatorium included..

[Investment novice]

This is due process and conserv will try leverage. The process we hope is that scheme forces the 2 non oarticipants to abide by the majority...it would have been a different matter if this was 60 40...this os rediculously tilted and the courts would have to take into consideration job losses and all impacts....and with covid ...this would be a really rare outcome...if we see a dip..we will start to see hopefully a slow trickle upwards as excitement starts to build...6 cents euro
....this is crazy......

[Zanme]

haha tom. Thats a little dramatic. I may be wrong but this is my take on it.

The Feb 8 hearing does not materially impact anything like that. I do not see the Conservatorium restructuring expert having that much influence that they would all of a sudden liquidate based on their input. Steinhoff has walked a long road and their plan is quite mature. Why would they all of a sudden agree to liquidate when a minority party wants them to?

The scheme of arrangement that will probably be pushed through the courts at the end of the month overides their unwillingness to participate and aligns their interests to that of the 80+ % of creditors that have approved of the scheme.
Conservatorium simply do not have significant enough weighting behind them at this stage to derail this process unless I am missing something?

Management must go. They are representing Christo and company who knows if they didn't do side deals. The Chairman came out to be a crook as well. This company needs all of them out.

[Sleepwa123]

Also another "a hearing has been scheduled for 8 February 2020 in the Amsterdam District Court following a recent request by Conservatorium Holdings LLC to appoint a restructuring expert to SIHNV"

THIS MEANS ANYBODY INVESTED IN STEINHOFF MIGHT LOSS ALL THEIR MONEY (big fat zero).

 

haha tom. Thats a little dramatic. I may be wrong but this is my take on it.

 

The Feb 8 hearing does not materially impact anything like that. I do not see the Conservatorium restructuring expert having that much influence that they would all of a sudden liquidate based on their input. Steinhoff has walked a long road and their plan is quite mature. Why would they all of a sudden agree to liquidate when a minority party wants them to?

 

The scheme of arrangement that will probably be pushed through the courts at the end of the month overides their unwillingness to participate and aligns their interests to that of the 80+ % of creditors that have approved of the scheme.

Conservatorium simply do not have significant enough weighting behind them at this stage to derail this process unless I am missing something?

[Tom]

It would have been better for the management of Steinhoff to stick to their initial decision to not pay Wiese till he sorts out with Conservatorium, even if that means putting the whole settlement on hold, or adjusting it to just settle with all other claims that are small in total money claim size but big in quantity of claims, and can be delayed another couple of years too. However Steinhoff management thought that they can just ignore Conservatorium, thinking that Conservatorium can only go against Weise, and ignore Conservatorium's win in the Cape court, and now they're put themselves in a head collision with Conservatorium, with potentially totally devastating consequences.

Edited by Tom, 14 January 2021 - 05:52 PM.

[Tom]

"SIHNV has been notified by Conservatorium Holdings LLC (together with its affiliates) that it intends to oppose the request for sanctioning of the scheme at that hearing" (the sanction hearing in the English scheme proceedings which will be on on 26/27 January 2021)

Also another "a hearing has been scheduled for 8 February 2020 in the Amsterdam District Court following a recent request by Conservatorium Holdings LLC to appoint a restructuring expert to SIHNV"

THIS MEANS ANYBODY INVESTED IN STEINHOFF MIGHT LOSS ALL THEIR MONEY (big fat zero).

Edited by Tom, 14 January 2021 - 05:28 PM.

[KP7]

No dump?......is everyone holding in anticipation? Scared the bus leaves?

My trading strategy doesn’t involve any pumps and dumps (I leave that for the loo) 

I look for possible long term bottoms, enter with predetermined targets and exit levels and wait for the market to either strike me out or give me a home run.

Obviously I have the following boxes that need to be ticked once I’m long to confirm my analysis.
 

1) SNH has held the lower trend line drawn from June 2018 low (on both JSE and FWB charts)  

2) SNH has broken above the descending trend line drawn from July 2018 high (on both JSE and FWB charts)

3) SNH now needs to break above R2 

 

Two out of three so far

[Tom]

"SIHNV has been notified by Conservatorium Holdings LLC (together with its affiliates) that it intends to oppose the request for sanctioning of the scheme at that hearing" (the sanction hearing in the English scheme proceedings which will be on on 26/27 January 2021)

[Sleepwa123]

Thats exactly where I am at. The finalisation of one of the key variables in the short-term has massive upside potential.

I'm looking away at this point!

[Africa1962]

Belgium’s for me please 

 

No dump?......is everyone holding in anticipation? Scared the bus leaves?

[KP7]

If it goes to 6 bucks beers and prostitutes on me

Belgium’s for me please 

[DayTraderDad]

wouldnt that be nice but feel it's a bit pie in the sky... damn I hope I dont sell before then, keeping this one for long

I cannot say with exact estimate due to COVID but just think about it.

 

26th Jan the new scheme in place then settlement announced.

 

Last is rescheduling of loads at cheaper interest rate and we home dry.

 

We nearly there by patient.

[DayTraderDad]

If it goes to 6 bucks beers and prostitutes on me

Haha with Covid or without!!!

[DeltaHedge]

wouldnt that be nice but feel it's a bit pie in the sky... damn I hope I dont sell before then, keeping this one for long

If it goes to 6 bucks beers and prostitutes on me

[GutfeelTrader]

We need a proper pump up to 6 bucks

wouldnt that be nice but feel it's a bit pie in the sky... damn I hope I dont sell before then, keeping this one for long

[DeltaHedge]

Snh form part of my high risk speculative portfolio. As it stands will not be an investment option to hold for dividends...company has some nice gains on the horizon and then i will exitba substantial portion.and leave a percentage based on my portfolio...oger the years...perhaps.once deb5 settled and restructured we may see dividends..byt its at least 5 years..
......

We need a proper pump up to 6 bucks

[Investment novice]

Snh form part of my high risk speculative portfolio. As it stands will not be an investment option to hold for dividends...company has some nice gains on the horizon and then i will exitba substantial portion.and leave a percentage based on my portfolio...oger the years...perhaps.once deb5 settled and restructured we may see dividends..byt its at least 5 years..
......

[Zanme]

So here's a question to other gurus out there, as an investor which company would you invest in?

A company that bleeds money in paying out law suites, accounting fees etc etc, or a company that pays YOU as an investor dividends?

And not to forget high salaries to useless management

Agree its such a pity because this group has great assets. Unfortunately management has no interest in creating value for shareholders because they have no skin in the game and irrespective of what happens they blame the old management. And they seem to be working for consultants lawyers and selected litigants who reside with them in Stellenbosch. Its actually pathetic the way this and a number of other listed companies are being run and managed and we have a weak regulator as well.

[Lionelza1]

So here's a question to other gurus out there, as an investor which company would you invest in?

A company that bleeds money in paying out law suites, accounting fees etc etc, or a company that pays YOU as an investor dividends?

And not to forget high salaries to useless management

Edited by Lionelza1, 07 January 2021 - 05:17 AM.