15225 replies to this topic

[Zanme]

You guys are shooting from the hip. I don't recall any succesful company that louis ran. Maybe i am wrong. I don't understand why you guys are backing him. Is he sharing his salary with you? The value that these guys have destroyed in unimaginable and yet you defend him from the HIP.

[Everlearning]

Larry and Tom,

 

Agree with you wholeheartly, dont share the views of Zamre, very shortsighted and "shooting from the hip" in my view approach would have sunk the company if that was the approach.

 

I'm still of the belief (and that is why I am still invested) that the management have done an incredible job of systematically putting SNH back together again, This is not a job anyone would want to take on and fail at and have on you CV as you will be unemployable after that, irrespective of the salary that is paid.

 

Collectively, this is one of the highly experienced team who took over SNH after the "crash" and they all have a great track record! Maybe we as shareholders would have liked things to have happened quicker but if we sit back soberly and grasp the complexities and the dynamics of what is and has to take place, we will agree that if what they are busy with is achieved, (and so far they have achieved all they have set out to do), we are on our way to one big 'come-back' story.

 

Some of us have carefully analysed the true value of the underlying assets after Claimants settlements and then clean Audit bill. I beleive the company is close to getting agreement on the settlement and this is confirmed by Louis in his statement when asked where thay are in the process he said he had "originally said it would take 4 - 6 weeks and we are now in the 4th week", implying that they should have an answer within the next 2 weeks. Knowing him, if this was not the case, he would have said something like "we are still in negotiation and it may take longer than origianally thought," but he did not !!!

 

Creditors have also agreed to extend the credit terms to 2023, this will show as long term borrowings and will be refinanced at marketd related rates ( a big plus for the company) who will then have the time to repay this from claims settlement it will have from Deloittes and others as well as the calculated tax refunds still to be calculated and will eventually be entitled to !!!

 

I'm in for the ride and for now with you all, holding on !!!

[LarryK]

Zanme - the reality is that share price is not the ultimate indicator of their performance - it’s the fact that the company is still in existence and they are still paying all those employees their salaries - sadly employee welfare is clearly not your priority.

Just an FYI mate - share price is often something CEOs don’t spend much time worrying about - they focus on their P&L, balance sheet, etc. and when the performance is in line with expectations - plus the litigation - the share price should move up.

These Guys have had to deal with a hell of a lot - and much of this was/is out of their control. Give them a little credit for the progress. Or sell and move on maybe?

The ultimate indicator of their performance is the share price which has been in a downward spiral. Nothing else. Its very good for management to concoct things like that they saved jobs bla bla when they are earning over a thousand times more than the lowest paid worker in the company. So they socialists when they want to be and capitalists when they want to. None of your arguments hold any ground until the share price recovers. And so far lets face facts we have all been wrong here and i am convinced if there was a more cost conscious management team things would have been different. Louis is earning way more than his peer group. Go look at what a profitable company like Firstrand pays their CEO. I heard him speak on Friday and he is definitely not worth the excess of R50 million that he gets paid not in a million years.

[Lionelza1]

The ultimate indicator of their performance is the share price which has been in a downward spiral. Nothing else. Its very good for management to concoct things like that they saved jobs bla bla when they are earning over a thousand times more than the lowest paid worker in the company. So they socialists when they want to be and capitalists when they want to. None of your arguments hold any ground until the share price recovers. And so far lets face facts we have all been wrong here and i am convinced if there was a more cost conscious management team things would have been different. Louis is earning way more than his peer group. Go look at what a profitable company like Firstrand pays their CEO. I heard him speak on Friday and he is definitely not worth the excess of R50 million that he gets paid not in a million years.

LDP is not the man for the job.

His expertise and network of people sure is needed... But to put him as CEO is big no for me.

And yea share price is a reflection of management's performance. Anywayz this is a long haul share.... Patience is required

[DeltaHedge]

The ultimate indicator of their performance is the share price which has been in a downward spiral. Nothing else. Its very good for management to concoct things like that they saved jobs bla bla when they are earning over a thousand times more than the lowest paid worker in the company. So they socialists when they want to be and capitalists when they want to. None of your arguments hold any ground until the share price recovers. And so far lets face facts we have all been wrong here and i am convinced if there was a more cost conscious management team things would have been different. Louis is earning way more than his peer group. Go look at what a profitable company like Firstrand pays their CEO. I heard him speak on Friday and he is definitely not worth the excess of R50 million that he gets paid not in a million years.

 

A big guessing game at the moment, lets see what happens. I am holding until the bitter end

[Zanme]

The ultimate indicator of their performance is the share price which has been in a downward spiral. Nothing else. Its very good for management to concoct things like that they saved jobs bla bla when they are earning over a thousand times more than the lowest paid worker in the company. So they socialists when they want to be and capitalists when they want to. None of your arguments hold any ground until the share price recovers. And so far lets face facts we have all been wrong here and i am convinced if there was a more cost conscious management team things would have been different. Louis is earning way more than his peer group. Go look at what a profitable company like Firstrand pays their CEO. I heard him speak on Friday and he is definitely not worth the excess of R50 million that he gets paid not in a million years.

[LarryK]

The opposite actually.
The government has adopted a tribal style governing system with endless meetings, consultations and very little action, no accountability, massive waste of resources, etc.
You said in a previous post Snh management should revert to a similar system where they pitch stuff to shareholders. Sorry this will not work - it would have led to chaos and definitely the end of steinhoff. (Nowhere in any of your posts have you mentioned the well-being of the 100000 employees - you only write about your interests - exactly why shareholders should leave this up to the leadership - they have to take everyone’s interests into account, leading to better long term decisions.)

In stead - they appointed experts to support the leadership formulate and execute a rescue plan - which is actually succeeding, In my humble opinion.

Oh and remuneration - I honestly don’t know - but do the management team get paid more than their peers? Remember bonuses are built into salaries to get things done (Even when the company is not making money) - it is likely they are incentivized to execute the turnaround strategy within a certain time frame and budget?

I am not Polly. They haven't benefited me any way. They are comparable to the government of this country. That is my opinion based on tangible facts so lets leave it at that.

[DayTraderDad]

I am not Polly. They haven't benefited me any way. They are comparable to the government of this country. That is my opinion based on tangible facts so lets leave it at that.

Hi Zanme lets educate all of us in this thread. I welcome your tangible facts lets discuss them maybe we can learn something. Simple saying management is useless does not help but if you have tangible facts bring them to the forum one by one so we can use our knowledge to work through them. It could well be you have information/ideas we have overlooked.The reason I still follow this forum is that over time very good information/ideas have been exchanged and we all learned something.

[Zanme]

I am not Polly. They haven't benefited me any way. They are comparable to the government of this country. That is my opinion based on tangible facts so lets leave it at that.

[DayTraderDad]

Daddy if they won the trust of creditors how does that benefit you as a shareholder if they keeping creditors happy that is so illogical. In hindsight the only guy that got this right was Polly.

Hahah feel sorry for you!!! Looks like the rebirth of Polly under new name ZANME!!! take it easy go and buy a 6 pack of green beer and have a lovely cold sunday!!

 

We have heard your opinion respect it but we have sufficient education to make our own minds!!

[Zanme]

Daddy if they won the trust of creditors how does that benefit you as a shareholder if they keeping creditors happy that is so illogical. In hindsight the only guy that got this right was Polly.

[Zanme]

I would have known what my purpose is that is to salvage value for stakeholders and not enrich myself. Thereby applying a cost benefit scenario to every decision made and not run around like a headless chicken paying consultants. I would have gotten rid of heather sonn and anyone linked to markus from the outset. I would have done scenarios assesing worst case outcomes and presented these to shareholders demonstrating that greater value can be created by focusing on the strenths than pursuing a long winded court battle that will prove meaningless. I would have without consultants assessed each asset on the balance and impaired it where necessary. I would not have had an arrogant entitlement demeanor and would have tried to be positive about the outlook and where its not possible to find this positivity i would have been honest about it and placed the company into business rescue instead of going down this long drawn road that means nothing to anyone.

[DayTraderDad]

Bad management but they have the trust of creditiors willing to extend the credit for 18 - 24 months???? Like Andi said if one does not believe in management sell only a stupid investor believes management is bad but still buy/hold the shares!!!

[andi222]

This management team is far from anything great. They are arrogant incompetent and greedy. They have been the problem the things that they doing are pretty obvious definitely not rocket science and they paying consultants handsomely to do it. Its all about value creation CEO can say that they rescued the company hoora in what form after destroying 99 percent value and paid consultants way in excess of the market cap to do it. Technically speaking Steinhoff could have paid all that consultant and management fees to shareholders and we would have been better off. Because it is more than the market capitalisation of the company.

I can understand your frustration, however cleaning up the history was a extreme complex tasks. They had to reassess each balance sheet and income statement item. Also extreme complex accounting standards had to be applied. Now negotiating with numerous parties to keep the ship floating was also extremely complicated and also facing the media etc. Its always easy to point fingers from the sideline.

The current management in my view is extremely competent it what they are doing. No firesales have occurred, they have a excellent plan in place to recoup value.

Again, as soon as the legal claims are settled, steinhoff will be able to obtain a clean audit opinion. Also if the litigations are out of the way they can reduce the debt and investment banks can start to find a reasonable price for the company. Because currently its trading at a liquidation market price.

If you believe in the company hold/buy shares now. If you don't believe in management and their plan no one stops you from selling your shares and moving on to some other investments

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[andi222]

DTD, also u need to consider that only 14% of the shareholders where present. PIC currently has around 7% of those shares. They are the ones who abstained to approve the financials. Also they did the same for the 2017 and 2018 report. I think as a public governing body they cannot approve financials which don't have a clean audit opinion.

Also I do not see any consequence that the afs where not approved lol. I mean the financials can't be changed just because the shareholder doesn't like them

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[LarryK]

Interesting opinion, but how will the shareholder and the 100,000 employees benefit in the long run if you paid the consulting fees to shareholders?
it’s a complicated company in lots of different countries with their own laws, accounting and auditing practices, etc.

If you got the job, what would you do differently to Du Preez? It’s a sincere question.

This management team is far from anything great. They are arrogant incompetent and greedy. They have been the problem the things that they doing are pretty obvious definitely not rocket science and they paying consultants handsomely to do it. Its all about value creation CEO can say that they rescued the company hoora in what form after destroying 99 percent value and paid consultants way in excess of the market cap to do it. Technically speaking Steinhoff could have paid all that consultant and management fees to shareholders and we would have been better off. Because it is more than the market capitalisation of the company.

[Zanme]

This management team is far from anything great. They are arrogant incompetent and greedy. They have been the problem the things that they doing are pretty obvious definitely not rocket science and they paying consultants handsomely to do it. Its all about value creation CEO can say that they rescued the company hoora in what form after destroying 99 percent value and paid consultants way in excess of the market cap to do it. Technically speaking Steinhoff could have paid all that consultant and management fees to shareholders and we would have been better off. Because it is more than the market capitalisation of the company.

[Zanme]

This management team is far from anything great. They are arrogant incompetent and greedy. They have been the problem the things that they doing are pretty obvious definitely not rocket science and they paying consultants handsomely to do it. Its all about value creation CEO can say that they rescued the company hoora in what form after destroying 99 percent value and paid consultants way in excess of the market cap to do it. Technically speaking Steinhoff could have paid all that consultant and management fees to shareholders and we would have been better off. Because it is more than the market capitalisation of the company.

[DayTraderDad]

I fully agree with Andi all this was expected and for me it was very clear management are in full control. For me the reason the minority shareholder did not approve the financial because its them that are contesting the settlement and cannot afford to agree with the financial.

 

For me there was a important note of change in wording when refering to if claimants refuse the settlement. Before the wording  was liquidation now is protective insolvency to settle the payments. That mean the claimant going backwards in the amount they can expect. Quite sure SNH could go into insolvency protection until they receive payment from the claims they will put in place against Deloite and other wrong doers so they can have the money to pay the claimants. That will take a life time. Very clever move!!!

 

Anyway my thoughts but for me this remains on track for a remarkable recovery in time.

[andi222]

Also new timeline available:

https://www.steinhof...lders-diary.php

2020 Report to be released in January already


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